Convincing significant others about using bleach

[Rangeball]

I imagine there are many like me (last year) that want to try the bleach method but expect difficulty convincing a significant other who may not be so open minded or haven't taken the time to do the research.

I think it would be very beneficial if there was a write up comparing why chlorine is the best sanitzer/oxidizer for a pool, the various forms chlorine comes in and the pros and cons of each form. Perhaps even include some of the common myths and objections you're likely to hear from pool store types on why you shouldn't use bleach.

I would be more than happy to write the text, but unfortunately don't know all the info. It would be great if those that do would pick a form and list the pros and cons, which I could then assemble. Unless of course someone in the know would just want to do the whole thing :)

I know if I could have printed out a logical, unbiased article on why bleach was as good as or better than anything at the pool store last year my life would have been a lot easier.

So, we've got-

Bleach, aka Sodium Hypochlorite in all it's various percentages.

Di-chlor granulated chlorine.

Tri-chlor granulated and formed.

Calcium hypo in varying strengths.

Lithium Hypochlorite.

Any others?

Anyone up to the task?

[brent.roberts]

Bens ( this forum's owner ) has most of this laid out pretty well on his
other web site

check out http://www.poolsolutions.com/sitemap.html#info_from

[Rangeball]

Kind of, but not specific and consise as I'm hoping for.

Care to pick a product and pro and con away?

[ivyleager]

Just tell the S.O. that chlorine is chlorine, the end product is the same.

CaryB
Go 'Canes!!

[Rangeball]

Well, I told her she should enjoy wait; is this a family forum? Perhaps I should just stop there.

Suffice it say that sometimes just stating the obvious isn't adequate... :)

[Brock]

Not exactly the same thing, but a lot of great points

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=2117

[Rangeball]

I'll start with some basics the way I understand them. Please feel free to correct me where wrong and add as you see fit-

Di-chlor. Granular chlorine with stabilizer added. Pros- Dissolves quickly, low impact on PH. Cons- Repeated use causes stabilizer build up resulting in more chlorine needed to do the same job or a partial draining and refilling to lower the stabilizer total.

Tri-chlor. Can be granular or pressed and formed (sticks and tabs) chlorine with stabilizer added. Pros- Fast dissolving in granular form, slow in pressed and formed which can be added to skimmer baskets or chlorinators to slowly dissolve and add chlorine to the pool. Cons- very acidic, can effect PH levels, same stabilizer build up issues as dichlor.

Calcium Hypochlorite- Usually granular chlorine with added calcium. Pros- Doesn't contain stabilizer so no build up issues. Added calcium can protect plaster etc. pool walls and floor. Low impact on PH. Cons- Very slow dissolving, can damage vinyl liners. Calcium content can add to TDS and cause hazy water until filtered out. Filtering out can cause a hard build up on DE filters that makes a breakdown and manual cleaning necessary, causing pool downtime (personal experience).

Lithium Hypochlorite- Granular chlorine. Pros- Very fast dissolving. Low impact on PH. No added stabilizer. Cons- Most expensive source of chlorine available.

Sodium Hypochlorite, aka Bleach- Liquid Chlorine. Pros- In liquid form so it's pre-dissolved. Low impact on PH. No added stabilizer. Comes in varying percentages such as 3%, 5.25%, 10% and 12.5%. Least expensive form of chlorine available. Readily available, can be purchased at grocery and department stores (yes the same "laundry bleach" is the same as the pool store "liquid chlorine", sometimes the percentages vary is all. Check the label to adjust quantity necessary to do the job). Cons- Disposing of plastic jugs. Pool store owners frown at you.

Something like that.

[victus]

As a business person (not in pool industry), I have a big problem with competition because it takes away income from my business. Like any business owner, I do what I can to fight the competition and try to come out on top.
So I'm going to be very honest with you when I say that if I owned a pool store, I would do my very best to convince you that Bleach, Borax and Baking Soda are not pool care chemicals and are VERY BAD for your pool and can potentially cause serious damage to your pool, equipment and to people swimming in it. I would also inform you of my professional qualifications and many years of experience in the industry so you will see that I am a trusted authority on the subject. Now having said that, when I go home after work I would use Bleach, Borax and Baking Soda to maintain my own pool; not the products I sell in my store!

[Simmons99]

victus,

I find that most consumers will go out of their way to support and purchase from a business that is HONEST and does what is in the best interests of its customers. That's how I sell products (not pool products) and that is why my competition does not do well.

IMHO, it find it depressing that business owners think that they need to "fool" or lie to their customers in order to maintain a profit. BTW - I do own a start-up with my husband as well.

I would be more likely to buy the supplies I needed from the local pool store (like polyquat or equipment) if I felt they had my best interests in mind.

[Marsden]

I'll start with some basics the way I understand them.

Thanks Rangeball I think that's an excellent overview.
Maybe once some other people have had their say it should be made a sticky?

I might add (from very recent experience ;)) that liquid chlorine also presents a risk of spraying onto you if applied on a windy day :eek: ;)

[gregugadawg]

you should convince him to use salt, ultimately that is the way to go. I sure hope most would agree on that.

[gregugadawg]

Also I think everything was good about the one post except he didn't really list all of the cons for liquid chlorine. Some cons of using liquid/bleach are that it has a high ph which means you tend to add acid, it has a high tds and increases your tds value fast which can cause you to have to partially drain the pool. Also unless you have a liquid feed system you don't have a constant supply of chlorine in the water. So in the instance of a large party you could easily show a chlorine reading of 0 halfway through the party with no safe way to get chlorine in the water, while using a feed system would allow you to constantly have a residual in the water. I do agree with the rest but I feel like she asked for un-biased advice which would need to include more cons for liquid instead of having to throw away the bottles. Plus pool stores will re-fill your bottles for you anyways. Everything in life has both pros and cons, so be sure to include both.

[Rangeball]

Also I think everything was good about the one post except he didn't really list all of the cons for liquid chlorine. Some cons of using liquid/bleach are that it has a high ph which means you tend to add acid

I stated it has an effect on PH. As for adding acid, I don't expect it to be much, backed up by this info from Ben in his TEKTATs-

"Probably the greatest chemical destruction I see at the large commercial pools results from the fumes of muriatic acid used to control pH. I've literally seen over $100,000 of damage at just one pool. Much of this comes from attempting to follow the dictates of the pool industry TEKTAT: "if you use bleach, you must use lots of acid."

BS! (Barnyard Slush)

Just to keep it short, I'll invite anyone who wants to, come watch me manage a 300,000 gallon pool this summer with less than 5 gallons of acid . . . while using hundreds of gallons of bleach!"


it has a high tds and increases your tds value fast which can cause you to have to partially drain the pool.

Huh? I've had the partial drain happen over and over with stabilized chlorine sources, but never with bleach. Heck, it's a little bit of chlorine gas, a little bit of sodium hydroxide and mostly water.


Also unless you have a liquid feed system you don't have a constant supply of chlorine in the water. So in the instance of a large party you could easily show a chlorine reading of 0 halfway through the party with no safe way to get chlorine in the water, while using a feed system would allow you to constantly have a residual in the water.

If maintains a proper residual this doesn't seem to be the case. We had a large crowd on Memorial day. I had a 4 ppm FC pre-party. After many hours by many people in the pool, it was still 2 ppm.

In my opinion these cons are kind of weak, and you could nit pick any chlorine source like this. I just want to hit the major highlights.


I do agree with the rest but I feel like she asked for un-biased advice which would need to include more cons for liquid instead of having to throw away the bottles. Plus pool stores will re-fill your bottles for you anyways. Everything in life has both pros and cons, so be sure to include both.

Sure they will, for about double the cost of new ones from the grocery store :)

[halds]

Seems to me that if you have written statements from pool company owners and operators (many members here and Pooldoc himself) that they use bleach, baking soda, and borax in their own pool, there is little else that needs to be said...

Hal

[Rangeball]

Seems to me that if you have written statements from pool company owners and operators (many members here and Pooldoc himself) that they use bleach, baking soda, and borax in their own pool, there is little else that needs to be said...

Hal

Hal, while I agree with you,

Insert Devil's Advocate-

"Your listening to someone on the internet?!

Anybody can put ANYTHING on there!!

They don't care if we ruin our pool. They probably want us to!"

:(

[Rangeball]

you should convince him to use salt, ultimately that is the way to go. I sure hope most would agree on that.

If I could afford SWG, sure. If I get 5 years cell life, It would probably break even with what I pay for grocery store bleach right now, but it would be more convenient.

But then I'd have to use acid do to PH issues still, right?

[Rangeball]

This link-

http://www.poolcenter.com/chlor.htm

has a good discussion of the various types of chlorine used in pools. You have to scroll down a bit to find it.