Thank you! My algae is almost gone!

[auntphibian]

I recently purchased a house with an above ground 15,000 gall round pool. Due to not being here full-time, I got algae and did everything to get rid of it, and then the cloudy water. I have purchased hundreds of dollars of pool chemicals, and finally took a water sample in to the local pool store, where I purchased over a hundred dollars more. After doing what they said to do, I still did not get clear water. I started looking online for answers and found this forum where I learned about Chlorine Demand (something the pool store should have told me about when I told them it seemed like my pool was eating chlorine). I started using bleach and borax to break the chlorine demand and borax to up my ph. I took a water sample i today and my ph is a little high, but I broke the chlorine demand, finally! I have noticed a lot of yellow particles in the pool, so I put the skim mor on the filter basket and clean it several times a day. I backwashed today and tomorrow I will vacuum in hopes of getting the particles gone, but was wondering if there is an easy solution for this, as well.

Thank you for teaching me what the pool stores refused to do. Had I found you first, I would have enough money to pay all my bills this month! :)

[PoolDoc]

Do these things:

1. Get a cheap local OTO test kit (yellow / red drops).

2. Add sufficient bleach each evening to have a dark yellow OTO result in the morning.

3. Test the pH in the evening, BEFORE adding any more bleach. Make sure the pH is between 7 and 8. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

4. Once you're caught up on your bills, order a Taylor K2006 from Amazon (link in my blue signature block). Once you have the kit (hopefully, before you close) report test results here.

[auntphibian]

Thank you. I have done all those things already, except for the Taylor test kit. My ph is now perfect and I can keep the chlorine right and increasing it every night with bleach. I STILL do not have a clear pool and just don't know what to do!

[kelemvor]

I STILL do not have a clear pool and just don't know what to do!

Go swimming!

[auntphibian]

I do, every day!!!! I take my net with it's skimmer hose on it and walk and walk and walk to scoop up as much little crap as possible. I also have the Skim Mor on the filter and was cleaning it several times a day, or it would clog the filter. Now I can clean it a couple times a day, but there is still a lot of tiny stuff in there.

I ordered my Taylor kit today, in hopes that will help me figure this out better. Thank God for Dollar General and there $1.00 bottle of bleach! Anything else I can be doing to try to clear the water up, in the meantime?

[PoolDoc]

Kelemvor is correct.

Unfortunately, it's very common for above ground pools to remain cloudy for a LONG time after the algae is gone. It's most common with large, over-sized, pumps (like your 2 HP) coupled with undersized sand filters.

The problem is made worse by the common response of adding repeated doses of clarifier: one dose may help, but won't hurt. Two can cause problems, and more than two tend to work in reverse, making it much harder to filter the remaining algae particles.

If you want to dig into the mechanics of improving your filter system, we can go there. But no matter what you do, there's a fair chance you'll finish the year with a cloudy pool.

One tip: when you CLOSE the pool, if you cover with a solid cover, the algae will settle over the winter. When you open, you'll want to IMMEDIATELY raise chlorine levels with bleach BEFORE turning the pump on. When you turn the pump on, set the filter to "WASTE" and vacuum the settled algae out. Otherwise, you may stir it all up, and immediately be back where you are now.

One possibility: the algae *might* settle now, if you turn the pump off for 24 - 48 hours. BUT, you MUST have the chlorine high, before you turn the pump off, and then MAINTAIN the chlorine levels with continued doses of bleach.

BUT . . . there's a complication. You added the info that you have an "AquaSmarte Mineral System". That's one incarnation of King Technologies assorted products that add copper, silver or both to your water. We *strongly* recommend against such system. The risk for you now, is that if there is copper in the water, adding the chlorine you need can cause black stains to appear. (Blue-green stains might also occur, but don't show up on vinyl like they do in concrete pools). I would STRONGLY recommend that you remove or empty all the AquaSmarte cartridges.

And, I have to warn you, that following the advice we've given you may result in stains, if there's still copper present.

Good luck.

[auntphibian]

That was going to be my next question..about the Aqua Smarte System. I asked the pool store about this right after I bought the house and they said they don't work. I had them check their system to see if the last owner bought the filters and other items for the AquaSmarte and they have not, but they do have it set to 8-10. I was wondering if I can just turn it off, or do I need to do something specific, since it is not properly being used and probably never has been. I also found out they have not changed the sand in more than a year.

Yes, I would like some more info on how to clear the cloudy water, ie the sand filter. Any help or knowledge will be helpful in deciding what my next move is.

I SO appreciate this forum! I bought this house because of the pool as I am a low income disabled person and water therapy is the best thing for me. I would just like to see the bottom of the pool!

[PoolDoc]

Sand doesn't normally need to be changed -- unless you've been using Baquacil or another PHMB based sanitizer. But on AG pools with big pumps and small filters it's common to lose some sand every time the filter is backwashed, and this sand needs to be replaced. You can test the filter by buying a bag of DE filter powder, and adding a quart or so to your skimmer while the pump is running. If the DE powder shoots back into the pool, your filter needs work. If not, it will help the filter remove the fine algae particles, BUT your filter will stop up quickly. (This is not a bad thing -- since you're removing particles that otherwise would tend to go through the sand!). Repeated use of DE can remove algae particles that otherwise would linger for weeks.

Without pictures, I can't tell you what it would take to remove the Aqua Smarte, but it would be best if you do so.

If you trust your pool store somewhat, it might be best to hire them to
1. remove the AquaSmarte completely
2. top off your filter with sand
3. install a ball valve on the DISCHARGE side of your pump, between the pump and filter, allowing your to throttle your pump back. Doing so will allow you to filter fine particles that otherwise are forced through the sand by the oversized pump. It will also allow you to backwash at a high enough rate to clean the filter, but not so high you constantly lose sand.

[auntphibian]

Okay, to my disbelief the Taylor Kit arrived today. So, I tried my hand at the chemistry, not sure how I did. Here's what I got:
Temp of water: 86
TA - 130
pH - 7.4
CH - 100
CYA - this is where I had a problem. It was "off the charts". It was below the 100 mark. It was level with the CYA imprint. Not sure what this means, but something is not right.
The Chlorine was the other thing I wasn't sure of. The kit talks about .2ppm and .5ppm, so I tested at .5ppm (since I have no idea what I'm doing). According to what I did the calculation is
3 drops x .5ppm for Free Chlorine = 1.5 did I do this right?
and
2 drops x .5 ppm for CC - .5 Would this be right or did I totally screw something up?
With the OTO test kit my chlorine was in the 2.4 range.

So, not being a professional at this, by any means, it seems the main issue is high alkalinity, right? So, they give options of putting air back into the water to lower this and I'm sure there is a chemical.

Please tell me if I missed anything and what your recommendations would be to get this water clear! Thank you so much for all your help already!

[PoolDoc]

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I was been running a fever with a fairly bad headache and severe fatigue and joint pains from Saturday till Thursday AM early . . . and pretty mentally destroyed as well. Turns out I probably either have an acute Lymes infection, or West Nile. Since antibiotics appear to be helping, it's probably Lymes.

I'm still tired, but hopefully my IQ is back into the 3 digit range!

(Did you know that you could be bitten by a nymph-stage deer tick -- about this size => . <= when fully engorged, and ready to drop off -- and never even notice the bite, but still be infected? Yep!)

Anyhow, back to your CYA level.

=> When you mix R0013 to your pool water and the sample remains CLEAR, you have ZERO or very low CYA
=> When you mix R0013 to your pool water and the sample becomes so cloudy that the black dot is obscured BEFORE you reach the 100, your CYA level is MORE than 100 ppm.

So . . . mix 1/2 cup of POOL water with 1 cup of TAP water. Use that mixture for your CYA test, and re-run the test. Multiple the result by THREE (3), and that will be your approximate CYA level.

AND . . . do not worry about your alkalinity level -- it's not a problem on a vinyl pool with a CH=100

[nefretrameses]

Auntphibian,

The chlorine test (and the tests for TA & CH) offer 2 options - a 10ml sample or a 25ml sample. The marks are on the side of the test vial. If you use a 10ml sample, each drop = 0.5 ppm for FC. If you use the 25ml sample, each drop = 0.2ppm for FC. (10ppm and 25ppm respectively for TA & CH) The 25ml sample will give you a little more accurate reading, but the 10ml sample is probably good enough for routine testing.

If you used a 10ml sample for your test then your calculation for FC is correct (3 x 0.5 = 1.5) but your CC result would be 2 x 0.5 = 1.0.
When you do the test, you should keep adding drops until the color is COMPLETELY clear - not even a hint of pink - or you are not done (have not reached the endpoint of the test). Check out the demo videos on the Taylor website.

You do not need 2 scoops of powder for either the 10ml or 25ml sample - one is enough.

The CYA test takes a little getting used to. After you do the test, you can pour the solution back into the mixing jar and then repeat the test. Lighting is important here. Check out the Taylor demo video.

If your CYA is over 100 and not zero, you will need to add chlorine. Check out the best guess chart under PoolDoc's signature for you CYA level.

Doc, hope you feel better soon.

[dansdad]

Sorry to even mention this Ben with your Lymes and all ( hope you're much better soon). I have the same prob as the OP but I was away and the weather was cool but all of a sudden weather turned from cool to mega hot in 2 days and you guessed it.......GREEN... I brushed for 2 hours and got most of it, now I have a gallon of liquid conditioner I'm going to put in tonight along with 2 gallons of 12% chlorine. Does that seem like an idea? Next year it will be different. I wont give it a chance. Just wanted your input. Please take care of yourself!!!!!! Dave Gale

[PoolDoc]

Do *NOT* add conditioner. At summer's end, odds are your CYA (conditioner, stabilizer) is already too HIGH.

Instead. add your 2 gallons of 12% bleach, and then go to Walmart (or other big box) and purchase 15 gallons of PLAIN 8.25% store brand bleach. The store bleach is much more likely to be full 8.25%, than the pool bleach is to be 12%. We can check that, later.

Begin adding 3 gallons of 8.25% bleach *late* each evening. Continue dosing like this for 3 days after no visible algae remains.

Use your K2006 to accurately test your CYA level; report that, along with a full set of other results, here.

-- I'll probably spin this off into it's on separate thread after your next post --

[dansdad]

Ben, after checking the k 2006 the cya is at 30 ( cant read below that) following are my findings

ch1.0
ph 8.0
ta 100
<30 cya


Unfortunately I went to the pool calculator and did what it said by adding 24 oz muratic, 20 oz liquid conditioner and 2 Gallons chlorine, but I will go to WM and get the 15 gallons this morning

[PoolDoc]

You will need stabilizer, but while dealing with an algae outbreak is not the best time to add it. No real harm done, however.

[dansdad]

thanks for getting back Ben, after adding 2 gallons CH, I'm seeing 2.3 on the CH..... 7.4 on ph .....100 alky..I added 1 more gallon of CH. My cya still read ,<30 no prob. CH is coming up, I'm watching it....No fun though....I swept the pool for 2 hours yesterday and got IN the pool and while there swept for 3 more. Question .....when you sweep is it necessary to get ALL the light green off before filtration takes over? Found out while being in the pool my Barracuda MX8 for the second time quit running...gears must be shot again I don't know what other sweeps might be better or maybe just do it by hand. Thanks again...Dave

[JimK]

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I was been running a fever with a fairly bad headache and severe fatigue and joint pains from Saturday till Thursday AM early . . . and pretty mentally destroyed as well. Turns out I probably either have an acute Lymes infection, or West Nile. Since antibiotics appear to be helping, it's probably Lymes.

I'm still tired, but hopefully my IQ is back into the 3 digit range!

(Did you know that you could be bitten by a nymph-stage deer tick -- about this size => . <= when fully engorged, and ready to drop off -- and never even notice the bite, but still be infected? Yep!)

Anyhow, back to your CYA level.

=> When you mix R0013 to your pool water and the sample remains CLEAR, you have ZERO or very low CYA
=> When you mix R0013 to your pool water and the sample becomes so cloudy that the black dot is obscured BEFORE you reach the 100, your CYA level is MORE than 100 ppm.

So . . . mix 1/2 cup of POOL water with 1 cup of TAP water. Use that mixture for your CYA test, and re-run the test. Multiple the result by THREE (3), and that will be your approximate CYA level.

AND . . . do not worry about your alkalinity level -- it's not a problem on a vinyl pool with a CH=100

Yikes!

Hope your better soon!

[auntphibian]

Thank you. I will do just that. Funny, my sister had an issue with her scalp that turned into a burning she could not stand and went to the ER. This was 2 months ago. We found out she was symptomatic for Lyme Disease, just like you! She started on antibiotics and got better. Thing is, if they test you for Lyme Disease in the early stages it will not show up in the test, you have to go by the symptoms and whether or not the antibiotics are working. Weird that you and my sister both got Lyme Disease in a short period of time. Where are you? She's in Northern Florida. She's been concerned about visiting my new place, because there are ticks, she never thought she would have a problem with something she never saw. So, yes, I am quite familiar with the tick situation! I'm glad you are feeling better.

An update: I can see much deeper into the pool than every before! I still cannot see the bottom, but it's clearer. I'll check the CYA tomorrow and see what happens. Thank you for the info! Get better!

[auntphibian]

Okay, I trudged to the pool in the pitch black and redid the CYA test, as you said. The reading is exactly the same. It does not read. Now what?

[singingpond]

Okay, I trudged to the pool in the pitch black and redid the CYA test, as you said. The reading is exactly the same. It does not read. Now what?

Do you mean that you diluted one part pool water with two parts tap water (as suggested by Pool Doc), and that the resulting mixture was still so cloudy that the black dot at the bottom of the tube disappeared very quickly -- i.e. with the water level lower than the '100' marking on the tube ? If that's the case, it would mean you have a LOT of CYA in your pool water.

Hopefully you had a decent amount of ambient light for reading the test -- going to the pool 'in the pitch black' doesn't sound promising for reading test results somehow :)

[auntphibian]

Okay, I redid the CYA test today, diluted and I get 150.

[singingpond]

With a CYA level around 150, you need to run higher chlorine levels (higher than the 1.5 ppm FC you reported in one of your earlier posts). If you look at the best guess chlorine chart:
http://poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html#a
the chart indicates everyday levels between 8 and 15 ppm; higher levels for shock. If the 1.5 is typical of the levels you've been maintaining, the algae has had a good opportunity to continue growing in your pool.

I'm pretty much a novice at this pool stuff myself, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt accordingly... If I were you, I would get the chlorine level up to shock levels, turn off your pump for a day or two to let things settle to the bottom, and then vacuum to waste to clean up as much of the settled fine debris as you can (vacuum gently, from outside the pool, not walking around inside the water -- as I think you described in an earlier post). If you have no other way to do this, plumbing-wise, you can just set up your vacuum hose to siphon over the edge of the pool onto the ground. The other benefit to dumping some of your pool water this way is that it gives you the opportunity to bring down your CYA levels somewhat -- by diluting the pool water on refill.

The 'novice' part of the advice has to do with the fact that I know nothing about possible complications from other chemicals/minerals you almost certainly have in your pool, both from the mineral system you mentioned, and from the various pool store chemicals you referred to in your initial post. My own experience is limited to our 1000 gallon 'test tube' size pool, which has had plenty of algae in its lifetime -- prior to my finding this forum -- but no complicated chemical mixes to experiment with :)

[auntphibian]

I had already vacummed to waste, backwashed and rinsed and added in 5 or 6 inches of fresh water. I will bring the chlorine level back up. It's been raining again, so that's not been easy. We'll give it a shot! I hope Ben is better!

[auntphibian]

My life just keeps getting worse and worse. My sister's boyfriend of 30 years passed away 2 months ago. My next door neighbor died suddenly last week, my uncle is in the hospital with pancreatic cancer and my favorite cockatoo (my reason for living) was dead in her cage on the 24th. I am devastated and having a hard time finding a reason to be here. The good news is I decided to get out and mow the lawn and check on the pool and I can see the bottom! The pool is clear..not completely, but I can see everything in there now! So, thank you for giving me a little light in an otherwise dark time. Please pray for my mental health, as I feel I am cracking up! I moved to the country for Gabby and now she is gone! I have never known a bond could be so strong with a bird, until her!

[JimK]

My life just keeps getting worse and worse. My sister's boyfriend of 30 years passed away 2 months ago. My next door neighbor died suddenly last week, my uncle is in the hospital with pancreatic cancer and my favorite cockatoo (my reason for living) was dead in her cage on the 24th. I am devastated and having a hard time finding a reason to be here. The good news is I decided to get out and mow the lawn and check on the pool and I can see the bottom! The pool is clear..not completely, but I can see everything in there now! So, thank you for giving me a little light in an otherwise dark time. Please pray for my mental health, as I feel I am cracking up! I moved to the country for Gabby and now she is gone! I have never known a bond could be so strong with a bird, until her!


I am so sorry to hear about your recent losses. Hang in there and put one foot in front of another; it will get better.