Anyone using salt w/o SWG in their chlorine pool?

[Rangeball]

I don't think any of these threads survived.

I had heavily contemplated adding salt to my bleach pool last year after reading some of the threads on it.

Of course I've forgotten why or how :(

Anyone doing this that would like to share their experience?

What PPM did you find works best?

[brent.roberts]

after reading some of the lost posts last year I took the plunge and poured about 5 bags of water softener ( plain ) salt into our pool. We use bleach.

I never told my wife what I was doing. Two days later she commented. Gee the pool water sure is nice. It did indeed make it feel better and the eye irritation was almost zero. We never had red eye because it was pretty well balanced following the BBB routines here. It just got nicer with the salt in it.

I put 5 bags in a 16 x 32 IG pool. I think I might have put in 1 bag more than I needed. Now you can only just taste the salt. ( idiot ... I got the salt level test kit AFTER pouring in the 5 bags )

Without the old postings, I think I put in about 1/2 of the amount they suggest for a SWG pool.

Hopefully someone else will have a real number for you.

[KirstenHW]

Brent, why did you put in the salt - just to soften the water? How long did it take to dissolve?

[DavidD]

I just finished adding 120 more pounds of salt a week ago. This is the second year I’ve added this amount. I did a partial drain over the winter so I added more this year. Tested water at local pool store and they gave me a reading of 1200ppm. Now I don't have a whole lot of faith in their test so I really should upgrade to the PS234 and test for myself. It took about an hour to dissolve but I had a little help, Invited 4 of the neighborhood kids to come over and stir things up. They got a big kick out of the crystals at the bottom. Must have caught on as my neighbor added some to his pool for the first time. I add salt to my pool to soften the water. I’ve noticed that my skin doesn’t feel as dry after getting out and I hear salt water is more buoyant, like I need more of that.:eek:

David D
16,000 gal I/G fiberglass
Figure 8 w/ De Filter

[wollypog6]

Check this thread.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=636&highlight=wollypog6

[brent.roberts]

I put it in because many folks on the old forum had reported that it just made the water feel better. And it did do that. It felt more natural, where as lots of pool water feels sort of harsh. Hard to explain.

It all dissolved in 15 minutes or so. I poured it slowly into the skimmer and you could just about pour it continuously. I guess a bag every 7 to 10 minutes or so.

If you want to try it, dump in the first couple of bags and then swim in the water. Add one at a time after that. It's easy to add a bit more and the only way to know when you're done is to go too far. So don't go much to far. It will gradually get reduced through rainfall and backwashing and refilling anyway and when you do go too far the only downside is you can taste the salt a bit more than you might have liked.

[Prov35]

I think I'll give this a try myself. I have a 20x40 inground. I'll start off with about 150 pounds, and then work up from there. Does it help or hinder algae growth in any way?

[Rangeball]

I think I'll give this a try myself. I have a 20x40 inground. I'll start off with about 150 pounds, and then work up from there. Does it help or hinder algae growth in any way?

I've never seen anyone state salt helped with algae, just better water feel.

[brent.roberts]

I don't know how big your pool is. Just keep in mind it's easy to add a bit more a few days from now than to get rid of it. I guess in IL you get some snow once is a while ... just in case you buy too much.

[Bleach=Chlorine?]

Hmmm... this is very tempting. Have to price out the salt today at Lowe's.

[Rangeball]

Anyone know a good ppm recommendation to shoot for when using salt without SWG, just to get the water quality affects?

Brent, my IG is the same dimensions as yours, and holds 21,200 gallons. If it's the same capacity as yours, perhaps I'll start with 3 bags, swim a bit to see then add the 4th if necessary and skip the 5th :)

Spouse is gone for a few days, I'd love to dump some in and see if she notices :)

[Rangeball]

I had a thought.

Suppose you want to run a SWG and salt is recommended at 3000 ppm (made this up for examples sake). You add the required amount of salt and test the water to make sure you hit the PPM needed.

Fire the unit up, and salt is converted to chlorine and returned to the pool. It eventually breaks back down to salt, and the process starts all over again.

With the FC of say 5 ppm, if you tested the pools salt content after SWG was operational, what would the PPM of the salt be? I assume once converted to chlorine, the "chlorinized" salt wouldn't register as salt?

If this is the case, we should be able to come up with a salt PPM recommendation that gets the good water feel without SWG.

[Rangeball]

Looks like this is the only type of salt I can buy in bulk around here-

http://www.mortonsalt.com/consumer/products/watersoftening/system_saver.htm

Will this work? Do the pellets take longer to dissolve?

[brent.roberts]

The salt I got was pellets. They were the cleanest I could find without going to salts that have additives.

From memory the comfort level was about 1/2 of the level for a SWG

I'll measure mine tonight when I get home and post it here. I figure it has been diluted about 20% by rain and snow since I did it.

Sure wish we had access to all the old forum posts.

[Rangeball]

The salt I got was pellets. They were the cleanest I could find without going to salts that have additives.

Good to know. These are 99.5% pure. They "melted" that fast in the skimmer, huh?


From memory the comfort level was about 1/2 of the level for a SWG

I'll measure mine tonight when I get home and post it here. I figure it has been diluted about 20% by rain and snow since I did it.

That'd be sweet :)


Sure wish we had access to all the old forum posts.

You and me both. We hammered this out back then. I was all set for this year, until I came back and found out the posts were poof gone... :(

I've never added salt to my water. Pool was filled with city water supply. Is it safe to assume that tap water would be relatively salt free? We live in a hard water area according to Morton's website.

[Bleach=Chlorine?]

Have there been any confirmations one way or the other whether salt water would have negative effects on pool equipment/structure/patio?

[Rangeball]

Have there been any confirmations one way or the other whether salt water would have negative effects on pool equipment/structure/patio?

IF I remember right from last years discussions, if you keep the PPM low, just enough to get the water quality benefits, then no negative effects.

[brent.roberts]

I've kept boats and fished in salt water and it will wreck havoc on anthing that is not made for salt exposure, and even stuff that is made for salt is still affected by it. You really need to think twice about that.

If I had a concrete pool with steel re-bar I would never have gone this way just to make it feel better. Likewise if I had a heater ( I have plastic solar panels ) I would avoid it.

Just one man's 2cents worth.

[Rangeball]

I have a vinyl liner but a concrete deck around the pool.

Would this prevent you from adding salt?

[brent.roberts]

I just looked at the Morton link you posted.

They have "some stuff" added. Unknown stuff. I don't think it will be dangerous, just maybe have an affect on the other chemistry we use. I'd look elsewhere.

[johnnya]

Seams there maybe some advantages in adding salt. What about for an aboveground pool? Splashed water onto steel or aluminum walls and bottom tracks. Is 2500-3500ppm enough to couse damage? Your bodys sweat is corrosive and I am not sure what the ppm is there...but I have seen it damage gym equipment.

[Rangeball]

I can get solar salt at a local lumberyard, but it's a few more bucks per bag. It's supposed to be straight salt, but a google search says it also has a small percentage of calcium, mangnesium and sulfate ions as this is part of the TDS in seawater.

I'll wait and see what your readings are tomorrow before I get some and dump it in.

[Brock]

The amount of salt we are talking about is typically in the 2000-3000 range of PPM, I believe the ocean or true salt water is on the order of 16,000-20,000 ppm of salt. So it is no where near the concentration of true salt water.

I finally did it this year and I would swear the free CL is more stable. Although we have an indoor pool and with no stabilizer so maybe the salt acts as a stabilizer for the free CL as well?

It definitely made the water feel "softer" and much easier on the eyes as well.

We just dumped in 250lbs the 99.5% pure salt pellets. I turned on the swim jet and they were gone in 15 minutes, I was really surprised they dissolved that fast.

[brent.roberts]

I told you I would test and report my salt levels. Sorry ... got into connections on the solar panels and got chased inside by mosquitos. I'll try to remember to test tonight.

If you've already got the salt on hand, no risk to go ahead and dump the first couple of bags in. You can get a stick type test kit at most pool stores. I was a bit astonised at the price. I'm waiting on a complete test kit with salt water test from Pooldoc.

[Rangeball]

I understand :)

I haven't bought any yet. I won't set foot in our local (only one) pool store again, plus no one around here uses SWG so they won't have the strips.

Thanks :)

[Rangeball]

Just played with the bleach calc.

4 40# bags will put me just over 900 ppm, assuming the tap water we filled the pool with has no salt in it (which I highly doubt it does).

This should be a good start without the chance that swimmers can taste the salt, right?

[brent.roberts]

From memory I shot for 1200 ppm and overshot it. You've got something to work with. Micheal Smith scores again.

[Rangeball]

From memory I shot for 1200 ppm and overshot it. You've got something to work with. Micheal Smith scores again.

Yep, a fantastic tool :)

a 40# bag gets be 226 ppm. I think I'll start with 4, see what that gets me, then add 1/2 a 5th (bag, not jack daniels :) ), test, repeat as necessary.

1200 ppm sounds like a good number :)

[Rangeball]

Brent, please don't test on my account.

The deed is done. I just added 4 bags (160# total) of solar salt to my pool :)

I did as you suggested, simply poured it in the skimmer. Dissolved real fast. I had all 4 bags in in probably 15 minutes tops. I did close my bottom drain line, to enhance water flow through the skimmer.

Now all that remains is to circulate and take the plunge, literally :)

I'll report back. It's threatening rain, hopefully I can jump in this evening.

Thanks for the help :)

[smallpooldad]

Lowes has Cargill Salt 40 Pound Salt Pellets Water Softener, 99.8% pure and dissolves over night. Not sure what the .2% is, most probably citric acid. Price is $7.85 in Hawaii, we call this the "Cost of Living in Paradise."

Looks like $4.69 on the mainland according to the web site.

Aloha

[brent.roberts]

OK so it's nearly midnight ... but it's still tonight and I did remember.

Now our salt tests at 1600-1700 on the test strip. Thinking back last summer was likely 2200, which is more than I intended.

We got the solar panels going yesterday morning and we're up 10 degrees already ( 76 tonight ) so with some sun tomorrow we have our first dip of the season. I'll let you know how it feels.

[Rangeball]

Thanks!

16-1700 ppm. Can you taste the salt at this level?

I got a chance to take a brief dip last night, water did feel better, was definintely easier on the eyes, and my skin and hair felt better when I got out. This with only 900 pm. I thought I tasted salt a few times, but it was a fleeting sensation that I could never nail down. I think I was just paranoid :)

I may add more later. I just don't want to taste the salt, but apparantly based on your levels I've got room to play with and perhaps get even better water quality...

[brent.roberts]

As you add more you go from bland crispy harsh sensations in the mouth, to knowing it's not the same any more, then to actually tasting something ... but it's hard to put a name to it, then to yeah, I think it's salt.

I miscalucated my first dump and got to the "yup it's salt" in one shot and that was pretty obvious last September. I should have done what you can do now.
Dump, swim. Should I add a bit more? etc.

It sounds to me like you've made the biggest improvement already.

One other point. If you keep adding it you will eventually get to the point that evaporation of the top of the pool cover, if you use one, will start to leave a definite white residue.

Good luck

[Rangeball]

Thanks.

No pool cover here.

I may add one more bag, that will bring me to 1130 ppm, and see how it goes. Doesn't sound like that level should be much risk at tasting salt.

Do you taste salt at the level you tasted last night? I mean this morning :)

Trying to get this done while the wife's away, want to see if she notices the water quality improvement before I fess up :)

[ShelleyAnn]

but are we really sure this won't hurt an AG vinyl liner or any of the equipment? I totally understand that it's way lower than sea water, but I grew up in Ft. Lauderdale and even the air 2 miles from the beach carried enough salt to eat thru a ton of lawn furniture over the years. Has anyone done with for more than a year or so?

Shelley

[brent.roberts]

>> Do you taste salt at the level you tasted last night? I mean this morning

not sure what your asking. I think I'd be happy with a bit less salt.

It's one of those things that you don't know till you bin der an dun dat. And by then you've overshot it. Wait for rain and pump some out.

[Rangeball]

>> Do you taste salt at the level you tasted last night? I mean this morning

not sure what your asking. I think I'd be happy with a bit less salt.

It's one of those things that you don't know till you bin der an dun dat. And by then you've overshot it. Wait for rain and pump some out.

Thanks :)

I plan to add another 40# this afternoon.

[brent.roberts]

You're going to laugh. After listening to the praise heaped on SGC's here I finally decided just now that with the Canadian Dollar trading at 90 cents now, I"d order an Autopilot SGC.

So I'll be getting to taste 2500 to 3000 PPM real soon

[Rangeball]

You're going to laugh. After listening to the praise heaped on SGC's here I finally decided just now that with the Canadian Dollar trading at 90 cents now, I"d order an Autopilot SGC.

So I'll be getting to taste 2500 to 3000 PPM real soon


:)

But, some of that will be converted to chlorine and not tasteable, right? I may be way off base here.

[sunofthebeach]

Couple of questions

1. With the salt water harm grass or plants?

2. How long has SWC been around? People have been adding salt to their pools for at at least 10 years now when they use SWC right? No reported ill effects?

3. How much does a bag of salt cost? Less then $10 for a 40 pound bag?

4. I can open my eyes under with no burning from the salt?

[GolfTop]

Can anyone say definitively that adding salt won't harm heating unit or vinyl liner? I have both.

[Rangeball]

I can't.

I have a vinyl liner but no heater.

Based on all the discussion from last year (which were lost :( ) and the fact that SWG sellers don't warn against using with a vinyl liner, I feel pretty comfortable. I can't see why the ppm of salt we're talking about would degrade vinyl. I bet Gatoraide has a higher salt content and it comes in plastic bottles :)

I added another 40# bag this afternoon. Might get a chance to swim late tonight.

[brent.roberts]

Golftop

I think the chances of it hurting a vinyl liner are near zero. But many vinyl liners are supported on the outside with steel frames. A lot of splashing from kits might accecerate corrosion. Some may be very well galvanized or otherwise protected.

The heater issue will depend on its construction design for electrolytic bonding and corrosion of the heat exchanger. I'd ask the manufacturer about that.

[GolfTop]

Thanks. I'll proceed with caution.

[KirstenHW]

So, may I make these following assumptions:
- Adding salt to a non-SWG pool will NOT affect the BBB chemistry
- Salt at the low non-SWG levels discussed here will not damage a vinyl liner - IG or AG
- Salt may damage steel IG or AG walls (although SWG manufacturers don't refer to it)
- It will improve water feel - especially iof you have hard water
- it won't hurt the eyes
- When adding to the system, do so through the skimmer slowly and it SHOULD dissolve in the same time frame as adding it

And ask these addl question:
- Drinking water softener salt in pellets or crystal with NO additives (what are they) is what we want to buy? Or is there another form?

[brent.roberts]

Rangeball
The solar panels bumped the temp about another5-6 degrees today. Now 81.
Took the plunge. Brisk at first. The water was not so gentle feeling as last year.

Last fall after close up I drained about 10" to clear the jets and it fill up so I took out a bit more before freeze up. Say 13" now. This spring with the snow melt I drained off another 4-5". Now its up 3-4" high again. So there has been a significant dilution of the salt. Tha's when I concluded that the number I got last year must have been 2200. So today I downloaded the Autopilot manual for the SWG and it will run at 2500. I was almost there last year. They say
3000 is ideal.

=========================

Kirsten

You might not have much to worry about on the steel frame for the vinyl lined pool.
1) It might be well protected by a good seal on the concrete walk ... if there is one.
2) if its will galvanized or otherwise protected, it might tolerate a lot of salt with little to no corrosion.
From here I don't know and if you got your pool like we got ours, inherited when we bought the house, you may never know.

Why do I feel like I'm being no help at all to you.

Anyway, good luck with it.

[Rangeball]

Rangeball
The solar panels bumped the temp about another5-6 degrees today. Now 81.
Took the plunge. Brisk at first. The water was not so gentle feeling as last year.

Last fall after close up I drained about 10" to clear the jets and it fill up so I took out a bit more before freeze up. Say 13" now. This spring with the snow melt I drained off another 4-5". Now its up 3-4" high again. So there has been a significant dilution of the salt. Tha's when I concluded that the number I got last year must have been 2200. So today I downloaded the Autopilot manual for the SWG and it will run at 2500. I was almost there last year. They say
3000 is ideal.

Interesting.

So you were up to 2200 pm of salt last year, quite a bit less than the ideal recommendation, but could taste it? From other things I've read I didn't think it was supposed to be tasted at SWG concentrations.

I had about 5 minutes to jump in the pool last night after putting the other bag of salt in. It didn't feel much different, but I was in a hurry and may not have had my placebo high enough :) I had also added muratic acid to lower ph/alk yesterday afternoon, so that may have been it. I plan to leave it alone (salt wise) for awhile and see how it feels and if anyone else notices.

[LennPrice]

Could this be done with a small 15' Dolphino pool also?

I'm just trying to get the pool as inviting as possible for the kids and wife. I already replaced the pump filter (junk) with a used Hayward pump and sand filter and besides a small bromine mistake the pool is crystal clear.

Just wondering if the same advantages would apply to a AG 6000 gallon pool and if anyone had an approx ammount needed. Perhaps I'll just go grab a bag and start with that and adjust as many have stated.

thx in advance.

[brent.roberts]

[QUOTE=Rangeball]Interesting.

So you were up to 2200 pm of salt last year, quite a bit less than the ideal recommendation, but could taste it? From other things I've read I didn't think it was supposed to be tasted at SWG concentrations.

I am really trying to figure where I was last year, because I did not record it.
Now at about 1600, I don't notice the taste at all. Last September before dilution, you could taste something. Some guests could not tell it was salt and some guessed that is was salt. Certainly not a "slap you in the face" flavor.

When I jack it up to 2500 - 3000 for the soon to arrive SWG, I'm going to guess it will be pretty obvious to the taste buds.... despite the fact that AutoPilot claim otherwise.

[brent.roberts]

Could this be done with a small 15' Dolphino pool also?


\

I don't know any reason that it wouldn't be of some benefit to the feel of anyone's water. Maybe some chemist might come up with a wierd situation that you wouldn't want to add a bit of salt. Other than the slight risk of additional corrosion, I don't know of any negative issues. It sure isn't expensive.