Air getting in from somewhere

[Cold Drink]

I have an IG 18x36 pool, hayward filter with hayward superpump. I have air bubbles constantly coming out of the jets into the pool. When I go out in the morning to turn the pump on after it has been off all night there is hardly any water in the skimmer. Could a bad gasket cause that to happen or could it be a crack in the pipes underground? I do lose a little bit of water everyday but haven't measured to see exactly how much. I also haven't done the bucket in the water trick to see if its evaporation but I'm thinking i'm losing a bit too much for it to be evaporating. If I put the valve to full port on either the main drain or the skimmer, I get air bubbles either way. I don't see any water leaking around the pump or filter.

The only gasket I've changed is the one on the skimmer lid and that didn't help. I haven't tried to change all the other gaskets yet. But, could a bad gasket cause the skimmer to lose water? I'm not looking forward to digging and/or pulling up concrete to see if its an underground pipe problem. Are there other tests I can try to see where air is getting in?

[Poconos]

Welcome to the forum.
I'm puzzled by your statement about hardly any water in the skimmer. Do you mean the pump basket? In any case, bubbles in the return jets indicates a suction side leak. If you mean the pump basket empties overnight then you could have a leaks between the various ports of a multi-port valve if you have one. What type of filter? A common sneak path with these valves is to the waste line. You may be getting s dribble out there and when you turn off the pump air can get sucked in and drain the pump basket. A valuable piuece of info is the actual amount of water you're losing. Put a piece of tape on the skimmer or measure water depth to some known reference. Knowing the approximate surface area of the pool you can then calculate the gallone per hour you're losing.
Al

[Cold Drink]

Sorry, I meant the pump basket not the skimmer. I wasn't thinking straight. The pump basket empties overnight. It's a sand filter. I'll do a measure to see how much I'm losing.

I do have a multi-port valve. Should I take the valve apart by unscrewing the bolts around it or should I just be looking to replace any gaskets where the valve meets the lines? Or both?

thanks,
- tom

[pringlee]

I have the same problem. Every day there is less water. But when the water level i below skimmer the water level is the same.

[Poconos]

Tom,
Yeah, open up the valve and check the condition of the gasket. Some call it a spider gasket others a wagon wheel. You'll see any damage immediately. Put the handle in a middle position to relieve spring tension then remove the 6 screws. Nothing will fly apart or fall out. Be sure to mark the position of the housing so you get the handle part back in the same place.
Al

[salinda]

Quick question...I have had the champagne bubbles for a while and now my pump strainer basket is almost empty and there is an air bubble in my cartridge filter in the morning. I have been quick to blame the solar system because when I isolate the solar out of the system using ball valves, this doesn't seem to happen. Can solar cause such bubbles too through a malfunctioning vacuum breaker or are the bubbles always caused by a suction-side leak. If so, I only have a Jandy 3-way before the pump and that might have to be serviced.

[Timmy]

I have the exact same problem. Mine is a DE EC65 filter though. Pump runs great before night, I leave it on overnight and when I wake up there is no pressure at the returns and the basket at the pump has very little water. I just had all my lines replaced because I moved the filter. I do not see any leaks above ground.

I thought all the air should be forced out through the jets and eventually the entire system would be all water, no air. Last year I had a problem in the beginning of the season with pressue. What I did was remove the pressure gauge and use this wand attachment for a hose that allows you to clean the inside of the filter. I washed the entire inside down allowing any caked up DE to come out the bottom. Seemed to fix the problem. My thought is maybe this is creating a blockage.

Not sure what a multiport valve is, but I do not think I have one. Could the problem be a leaking cover over the basket at the pump? Not sure if there is a gasket there, I think the previous owner of the house just used some sort of sealer in a tube.

Here is a picture of my filter setup.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h252/mack454/CopyofP6011528.jpg

[salinda]

I have the exact same problem. Mine is a DE EC65 filter though. Pump runs great before night, I leave it on overnight and when I wake up there is no pressure at the returns and the basket at the pump has very little water.

Actually I don't think mine is the exact same problem....This happens when my pump is OFF overnight. When the pump is on, everything is fine except for the champagne bubbles. I have an autofill unit on my pool, so I don't know if I am actually losing water anywhere.

[Poconos]

Hey guys/gals.
It gets very confusing when other questions, even seemingly related, are asked in a thread. Please do not hesitate to start a new thread as that will get full and specific attention.
Al

[Timmy]

Actually I don't think mine is the exact same problem....This happens when my pump is OFF overnight. When the pump is on, everything is fine except for the champagne bubbles. I have an autofill unit on my pool, so I don't know if I am actually losing water anywhere.

I appologize, I misread your original post.

[Cold Drink]

Tom,
Put the handle in a middle position to relieve spring tension then remove the 6 screws.
Al

Poconos, thanks, I'll try it this weekend. Stupid Question: By middle position, is that when the valve is at 12 o'clock? I have a hayward veri-flow 700 something series so 12 o'clock is the "filter" position on that.

- Tom

[JohnT]

Poconos, thanks, I'll try it this weekend. Stupid Question: By middle position, is that when the valve is at 12 o'clock? I have a hayward veri-flow 700 something series so 12 o'clock is the "filter" position on that.

- Tom

I believe he means between settings.

[Cold Drink]

I took everything apart and replaced every gasket I saw. Except, I couldn't get the wagon wheel gasket out that's under the multi-valve, it seemed to be fused in there. Is it normal for that gasket to be really difficult to remove? It almost seems like its glued in. So, the air seems to be mostly out of the system except for some champagne bubbles but I do get water in my backwash hose after the pump runs for a while, so I'm assuming that is caused by that wagon wheel gasket and I probably made it less effective when I tried to take it out. Is there a trick to removing that wagon wheel gasket?

[Poconos]

They are glued in. Give it a good visual inspection for any bad spots. If it looks OK and is still soft it should be sealing OK. About the only way to get them out is to destroy them. Pull out as much as you can, then I use a flat blade screwdriver about the width of the channel to scrape the rest of the junk out of the seating grooves. Takes some effort and time. Now comes the debatable part. Hayward recommends crazy glue...at least they did last time I looked a couple years ago. Tried that once and didn't hold too well. Last year, pulled it out and squished silicone seal in the channels and used that as the adhesive. Prepped a circular piece of plastic sheeting to fit over the gasket. Wanted to reassemble the valve and put pressure on the gasket before and during the silicone curing process. I waxed one side of the plastic sheet so the silicone wouldn't stick to it. Can probably use wax paper too...just thought of that. For the first few hours I'd move the handle to a different position so all the webs of the gasket get pressed into place. After curing, a day, take the valve apart, remove the plastic or wax paper, trim any excess silicone seal out of the channels and bingo. I always have had a slight leak to waste but since I did this, nothing. A year now. There are people that suggest not gluing it at all. Can't understand the logic here but won't argue. This is what worked for me.
Al

(ajs-1)
In case you wonder what this is, on some posts that I want to find in the future I embed a unique search field.

[Cold Drink]

What a pain it was getting that wagon wheel gasket out. I was starting to wonder what I had gotten myself into after about an hour of scraping to try and get the thing out. I didn't even have enough time to glue it in so I just pushed it in there and put the multi-valve back on. I just won't move the multi-valve until I can open it back up this weekend and clean it out some more and glue the new one in.

After it all I still have champagne bubbles but just from one return jet. So, the mystery continues. Its a lot better than it was before when I was getting burps of air coming out of both return jets. It's interesting to me that only one return jet has bubbles since there is only one return line coming from my pump and into the ground and it splits off underground.

- Tom

[Poconos]

I got confused with this thread and apologize. I missed the original issue of bubbles and concentrated on the pump basket draining down. If you have air bubbles coming from the return jet(s) you have a suction side leak which could be a leak at the pump basket lid. If the pump basket is draining down overnight then the problem could be a leak in the multiport valve or the basket lid itself. Reading this whole thread again it seems the leak is most likely at the pump basket lid gasket.
Again, sorry I missed that.
Al