Switching from Sustain Cal-Hypo to BBB

[amber]

This is my first year with a pool and the pool store talked me into the Sustain Cal-Hypo system. I purchased what was supposed to be enough for the whole summer & I have maybe enough chemicals to last me another week or so. I would like to make the switch to the BBB method. I have a Taylor TF-100 test kit just want to know how I go about switching. I read a post somewhere that said something about a possible problem switching with the summer sheild product added in the same year. I put a jug & a half in the 3rd week of March. My water is clear & has been all year.

[dubbedout]

There's really nothing to do before switching to the BBB method. As Bleach isn't any different from what you buy at the pool store (except its cheaper, doesn't add any unnecessary chemicals to your water, its still chlorine). I did the same thing at the beginning of this swim season, purchase a $150 bucket of Dichlor and went through it pretty fast, as I found out that the Dichlor was raising my CYA levels and causing me to have to use more of it to keep the water clear. I do go through a lot of bleach but that's currently due to my CYA levels being over 100 and I'm in AZ where its currently at least 110 degrees daily. You won't regret converting I promise you! My pool is the clearest its ever been now, no more scale on the tiles or anything. I'm constantly getting compliments on my pool when we have people over!

[amber]

I have read alot & feel pretty confident about using the pool calculator & BBB chemicals. What I am not sure about is the Sustain Summer Sheild tests as CC's. So will this cause a problem because normally CC's are cause for starting the shocking process? I always have CC's with this products.

I have read about it in a ton of other threads. JasonLion on TFP wrote this "As long as their summer shield hasn't been added since last summer there shouldn't be any problems simply starting to use BBB, without any conversion process." in this thread: switching-from-sustain-to-bbb-any-concerns-t44236.html This makes me believe that since I added the Summer Sheild this year I may have a problem.
There is also a bunch of info in this thread: fas-dpd-interference-question-t7571.html
I also posted at the begining of the year because I was worried about the CC's: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread ... ater-right

current test results
FC 6.5
CC1.5
TA 110
PH 7.5
Did not test CYA because I added more yesterday to bring it up to 30-40

[dubbedout]

I'm not familiar with Sustain Summer Shield and couldn't find very much information as to what's really in it, besides the label which says Calcium Hypochlorite 68% and "Other ingredients" 32%. Sounds likes it's some sort of CYA replacement? I have any had to shock my pool once, and that's when I started to get an algae bloom due to my FC levels dropping too low. I never have any CC since switching to bleach. Maybe someone else that has experience with this product will chime in with their experience.

[PoolDoc]

There are 3 basic Sustain products, but the "Sustain® 3-Inch Blue Chlorinating Tablets" are slow-release cal hypo (calcium hypochlorite) should be OK to use. The "Sustain® ¾-Inch Shield Energizer Tablets" are also cal hypo -- probably fast release, and are also probably OK. Do *NOT* use the "Sustain® Summer Shield Chlorine Extender".

Just make SURE that there are no trichlor tabs in the skimmer at the same time as the Sustain tabs; very bad things will happen if you mess this bit up!

[amber]

I feel like I am missing something or maybe I'm not asking the correct question? PoolDoc you wrote do not use the Summer Sheild but I did, I put in a jug & a half the third week in March as I wrote in my first post. I just need to know if I can switch to BBB this year or if I need to stick with Sustain (cal-hypo) until next year when the Summer sheild has worn off?

[PoolDoc]

Sorry, but I don't go back and check for other threads under your user name, and I wasn't paying attention to the fact that there are two posters in this thread.

So. . .

1. As best I can tell, you can operate BBB method, with one exception: you'll have to ignore the high CC (combined chlorine) levels. They will eventually drop, as the "Shield" breaks down.

2. There are benefits to using cal hypo, but I don't think they are related to the Shield product per se. I'm pretty sure you can use trichor or dichlor without any special issues, and completely sure you can use bleach (sodium hypochlorite).

3. You may want to purchase some polyquat as a backup. The Best Guess chart is not necessarily reliable in the presence of the Shield product. If you find that you are developing some algae, raise your chlorine somewhat, and add the polyquat till things are back under control. (www.poolsolutions.com/polyquat.html)

[amber]

Thank you!

I have a couple questions about starting BBB. How often do I do the overnight FC loss test?

Also, how exactly should I start the switch? I assume I have to figure out how much chlorine my pool will need a night? My target FC is 3-6 so if I am going to be adding the bleach at night do I add enough to get me to 6 or do I need to add enough to get me higher than that to keep it in range until the next night?

[chem geek]

You only do the overnight FC loss test when you suspect a problem, such as losing chlorine faster than normal for your pool.

To switch, you just start using chlorinating liquid or bleach as your primary source of chlorine. However, with the Sustain Shield chemical in the pool, it's unclear how to deal with that and transition to using CYA. The only clear-cut way is a full water replacement, but perhaps you can transition over time. If you see the chlorine loss increasing during the day but not at night, due to the Sustain Shield slowly getting diluted out of the pool, then you can increase your Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level. Unfortunately such an intermediate combination isn't something we know anything about nor have documented for what to do.

As for how much chlorine to add, you add whatever is needed to not go below the minimum in The PoolSolutions Best Guess Swimming Pool Chlorine Chart (http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html), but that would be after you get rid of the Sustain Shield from your pool. As purely a guess, I would follow this chart when the CYA level gets higher, but when it's below 30 ppm CYA as it is right now I'd still have a minimum of 3 ppm FC at all times. As Ben mentioned, you can use Polyquat 60 weekly as insurance to prevent algae during this transition period until the Summer Shield goes away.

[amber]

Thank you!

[CarlD]

Jumping here in the middle.
I'm wondering if the "Sustain Shield" is nothing more than slow-dissolving Cal-Hypo. After all, the "special" stuff was 62 or 68% cal-hypo...which is the NORMAL percentage of Cal-Hypo.

If so, then it has obviously NO effect on CYA.

The B-B-B system is really replacing the $$$ and guessing with knowledge of what stuff does and when to use it.
B: Bleach, B: Borax, B: Baking Soda, plus, of course, CYA and Muriatic Acid are basically all you usually need.
BUT

At the beginning of the season, when my CYA levels are low and my pH may be higher than I like, I like to use Tri-Chlor tabs to start because they add acid and CYA while maintaining chlorine. If the CYA is low but the pH isn't high, I may well use Di-chlor powder...because it doesn't lower pH much but adds even more CYA than Tri-Chlor, and I think faster than CYA powder.

I rarely use Cal-Hypo. It's getting harder and harder to find 68%--it's all that 48% garbage. I don't need calcium in my vinyl pool, so...unless I cannot get bleach or LC (my preference) I don't buy it. But I did in the past and used up what I had.
The two most important measures in your pool care are chlorine and pH levels.

CYA is third because it determines what the optimum chlorine level is. T/A is useful if your pH is unstable because adjusting T/A can stabilize it. And, unless you have a concrete-tile-type pool, Calcium is only important if it's too high, high enough to cause problems.

Finally, sometimes people have metal problems but those have very distinctive symptoms and even then, the solution is straight-forward.

What's my point? B-B-B is a KNOWLEDGE system that makes pool care super-easy and obvious and removes the mystery--and expense.

Pool Forum was the first to advocate for B-B-B and it has been picked up by TFP and other swimming pool sites. B-B-B (or "BBB" as most put it ) is a nice convenient shorthand for the key elements of what makes it all work.

No mystery!

[PoolDoc]

There are appear to be 3 parts to the system: slow dissolving cal hypo; fast dissolving cal hypo; and the imidazolidinone + salt "Shield". There may be additives with the cal hypo tablets that are part of the system, that don't have to be listed, but it can't be cyanuric acid. Likewise the imidazolidinone doesn't have to be listed, even if is the central pillar of the "Sustain" system.

Cal hypo is a great pool chlorinator . . . IF you use it the way I've occasionally described. The Sustain tablets make it possible to use cal hypo via the skimmer, which maximizes the positive characteristics of chlorination by cal hypo.

Actually, as a result of this discussion, I'm considering suggesting that people with metal problems see if they can buy the Sustain blue (slow) tablets to chlorinate with, since their use will have a very positive effect on metal clean-up. The main problem I currently see with this is the extreme high cost for the tabs -- $8 / pound at a1poolfun.com (http://a1poolfun.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=sustainsystem), which is the only online source I've found so far.