Unable to remove cloudy pool water in Intex pool

[RockTaco]

Been to dozens of pool forums and this one seems the most organized and useful, with intelligent queries and replies, so I'm gonna give it a shot to help solve my problem since I've exhausted all my efforts with the experience I have. Thanks in advance!

First, the details;
POOL: 18' x 48" Intex, round
CAPACITY: 7,700 gallons
PUMP: Intex Krystal Clear 635T

What I've been using;
HTH 6-way test kit

KIK muriatic acid, 31.45% strength
HTH chlorinated granules (for quick n easy chlorine level bumps)
HTH super 3" chlorinating tablets (for ongoing maintenance)
HTH super shock 'n swim
Arm & Hammer clear balance 3" tablets (conditioning)
HTH super extend algae guard (this stuff is great!)
Leslies Pool ulta bright enhancer (clarifier)

The Problem..
Ive read countless posts about this problem and have considered every possible cause. I know its NOT equipment, algae, bather load, rain, pipes, metal, Ph, hardness, chlorine, wild animals, bikinis, aliens or freaks of nature.
I do know it has to do with Alkalinity.. which is where I'm stuck. After getting Ph within the 7.2-7.8 range, my AK level was still 260!! So, on to the acid I went.
72 oz. later my Ph has dropped to 7.0 (expected) but AK still at 170 and most frustrating, VERY little improvement to cloudiness. (you can see the bottom of the pool if you stare long enough, which is better than -0- visibility before, but a long way from sparkling clear.)
I have a feeling it has something to do with my Cyanuric acid level which has been -0- the whole time, while I'm clueless as how to change.

What do I do next without further dropping Ph or creating other problems? Help!
(below are my readings and steps I took)

DATE/TIME CH. PH. AK. HD. CA. (chlorine, Ph, alkalinity, hardness, cyanuric)

5/26, 733pm. 3.0. 8.0. 210. 200. 0.0
* somewhat cloudy. shocked pool

5/27, 942am. 5.0. 8.0. 240. nc. nc
* getting cloudier. ran pump 24hrs

5/28, 1015am. 0.0 8.0. 230. nc. nc
* still cloudy, 12oz CH, 1 tab stabilizer in skimmer, pump on 8 hr cycle

*** next 2 weeks Ph & AK constantly high, CH bouncing high low high low.. cloudiness worsens by day

6/12, 1000am. 0.0. 8.0. 240. nc. nc
* 15 oz acid, 6oz clarifier, 1 CH tab, Pump on 8hr cycle
600pm. 4.0 7.5. 230. nc. nc

6/13, 800am. (same as 6pm readings above)
* drained 1/3 of pool. Skimmed and vacuumed, refilled.
1200pm. 3.0. 7.5. 260 ?! 230. 0.0
* just as cloudy, add 8oz acid, 5oz clarifier
300pm. 0.0. 7.5. 240. 230. 0.0
* cloudy, 6oz CH granules
400pm. 5.0. 7.2. 220
* cloudy, 8oz acid, pump always on

6/14, 1000am. 2.0. 7.2. 200
* cloudy, 8oz acid, 1 CH tab, pump always on
700pm. 3.0. 7.2. 200
* cloudy, 16oz acid

6/15, 430pm. 5:0. 7.2. 180
* cloudy, 16oz acid. Pump always on.
1200am. 4.0. 7.0. 170
* cloudy. No action. Pump always on.

6/16, 1200pm. 3.0. 7.0 170. 200. 0.0
* 1st signs of.progress!! Water is SLIGHTLY less cloudy. Cyanuric still 0.0.
* Adding 16 oz more acid., 3oz clarifier
300pm. 3.0. 7.0. 160. 200. 0.0
* no change to SLIGHTLY improved cloudiness..

So, there you have it. AK is.going.down, albeit slowly. However, ph is dropping and the cloudiness has barely changed.

PLEASE HELP, how do I remove the cloudiness and keep everything else in balance?!
Thanks!
Sam

[Watermom]

Hi, Sam, and welcome to the Pool Forum.

No more clarifier or algaecide. Sometimes those makes things worse.

Please list the ingredients in the granules and in the shock and swim. Also, look at the label on the tabs and see if it lists copper.

Is this a newly filled pool this year?

Come back with answers to these questions. Also, go to our sister website www.poolsolutions.com. On the left hand side of the page, click on "guides" and read the guide about lowering alk. Does your pool have a return jet eyeball that you can turn upwards to create as much splashing as possible to aerate the pH upwards?

Do yourself a favor and order the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C kit we recommend. It will make everything much easier. (Link in my signature below.)

[RockTaco]

Watermom,

Granules:
..calcium hypochlorite 47.6%
..other. 52.4
-------------------------------
Min avail chlorine. 45%

Shock:
Calcium hypochlorite. 52%
Other. 48%
-------------------------------
Min avail chlorine. 49%

Tabs do not contain copper.

Yes, its a newly filled pool.

Started in April, all was good until May when I started keeping track of measurements.. prior to then I used the algaecide 1 time at start up, then shocked & stabilizer tab weekly. Granules as needed during the week. No clarifier.
Then the pool started to get cloudy late April as alkalinity & ph rose.

Hope this helps and I hope the potential culprit isn't hidden in those 'other' ingredients..

Thanks
Sam

[Watermom]

If it were my pool, I would stick with bleach and forget all the calhypo. If you want, you can use the tabs; they will add CYA over time. However, until your CYA gets to around 40 or so, you are going to have some trouble keeping a chlorine reading in your pool.

A couple of options for you to consider:

1) Use bleach for your source of chlorine and just add some CYA separately to get you to about 40 or 50. Actually, some of our members in your part of the country find that their pool holds chlorine better if they have a CYA reading of 60-80 which also allows them to add bleach less frequently. But, if you do run a high CYA pool, you have to run higher than normal chlorine levels. See the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature for more about this connection between the two.

2) Use Dichlor which adds CYA as well as chlorine. (If you decide to do this, buy it from Sam's as other places have lots of other unwanted stuff blended into their dichlor.) Dichlor is a powder and can be used for daily chlorination until you get the CYA where you want it. At that time, you switch to bleach to keep your CYA from getting too high. (Since it is a powder, it can also be used for shocking a pool when needed.)

3) Use the trichlor tabs and let the CYA build up over time. Again, when you get the CYA level where you want it, switch to bleach.

Since you are having cloudy water issues, I would not use calhypo.

Let me encourage you once again to order the kit I mentioned above. You won't regret it. It will be the best thing you can do to make pool care easy!

Let us know which way you want to go and then someone can advise you from there.

(Keep the pump running 24/7. I assume since it is an Intex pool, it has a cartridge?)

[RockTaco]

Watermom,

Seems like option 2 would be best. Get the CYA up with dichlor and switch to bleach.

Am I to assume everything else will fall into place (AK level, cloudiness, ph) ? Or are there steps seperate from the CYA process to manage those needs?
Thanks for the help!

Sam

PS: yes, the pump has a cartridge. I backwash only when flow is reduced or heavy algae load. Replace monthly, give or take.

[Watermom]

High pH + high Alk + adding calhypo is not a good combination as you have found out!

The Intex OEM filter cartridges are low quality. Better cartridges will not only last longer, but will filter out the residual cloudiness better. Read this thread:

Cleaning-your-Cartridge-Filter-wiithout-Damaging-It! (www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?18044)



Replacement Unicel cartridges:

Unicel C-4607 Replacement Filter Cartridge (Easy Set Size A or C) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BNPRC2/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Unicel C-5315 Replacement Filter Cartridge for 15 Square Foot Intex B Filter (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0039X2XZK/poolbooks) @ Amazon

[PoolDoc]

membership upgraded; post re-located to proper forum section.

Hi Sam;

It looks like you've gotten the advice you need, but just to summarize:

1. Stop using cal hypo, for now. (Stop buying diluted cal hypo FOREVER!)

2. Switch to dichlor, then bleach.

3. Upgrade your filter cartridges ASAP, using product from either Filbur or Unicel ONLY.

4. Worry about any remaining problems AFTER you've done 1 - 3

Good luck!

[Cords]

I've been in that cloudy situation before and also have very high alkalinity. I had a perfectly clear pool until I decided to use up some old shock pouches that contained calhypo. The pool turned cloudy instantly and it took weeks to filter it out. My cheap A filter couldn't capture the white stuff, but a little clarifier helped group it into bigger globs (I agree with posts above- use a better filter instead of clarifier but I was a noobie). I had to clean/spray the white junk out of the filter 3 times a day and it looked like milk running off the filter.

NO MORE shock pouches for me. Don't use floaters either, most of the tabs include forms of stabilizer and after 2 months you have built up WAY too much and you go green. Actually all I do now is start up with a gallon of bleach, the next day put in the initial CYA stabilizer to get up around 50 (24oz was a good place to start for me), then bleach as needed all summer to keep CL in the 3-6 range. Every 3-4 weeks I add 1/2 a jug of muriatic acid (paint section of hardware store) to help with the high alkalinity and aim the jet to the surface for a day as mentioned above. The alkalinity remains too high all summer but this knocks it down a bit and helps with the PH that keeps creeping up. Halfway through summer I check and adjust the CYA again. It is this simple!

Get a test kit as recommended on this site. Also buy an extra 60ml bottle of R-0013 cyanuric acid reagent. The kit comes with 22ml but the CYA test requires 14ml so you only can test once (eyes rolling). I test chlorine every other day, and PH once a week. It only takes 5 minutes but staying on top of it is key to not going green.

[Watermom]

Cords --- The CYA test only requires 7 oz. of the reagent plus 7 oz. of pool water. If you buy the K-2006C version of the kit, you get larger bottles of reagents --- 2 oz. vs.0.75 oz at a better price. But, you are correct, that buying some extra R-0013 is a good idea.

[stma]

Luckily, it's only 7 ML of each :)

[PoolDoc]

@stma: I've purchased stuff at eBay, successfully. But I've also had some unsuccessful purchases, and found the return process to be very difficult and not supported by eBay.

So, I'd prefer to stick to the Amazon links I've got. The same seller is present on Amazon, at a few dollars more than you mentioned. But Amazon will get involved if there's a return problem.

I had to think about this for awhile, because we do get a commission on Amazon sales, and I needed to think a bit, to make sure I wasn't pulling the link for purely selfish reasons. But I've never allowed links to even slightly dodgy sources - and eBay is sort of a 'Wild wild west' market -- some great deals, but at the cost of some high risk.

Of course, if someone wants to search for the K2006, they can find sellers on eBay. That's fine with me, but it's on them, not on us.

[RockTaco]

Thanks for all the help guys.
Bought some CYA and put 2lbs in gradually since 8am. When levels are up ill go to bleach.
Kickin myself for wasted money on stuff I didn't need.. but, better late than never. I'll keep you posted on progress!

Sam

[PoolDoc]

Bought some CYA and put 2lbs in gradually since 8am. When levels are up ill go to bleach.

Do NOT wait; you'll end up with a green pool that will cost far more than the bleach you are trying to save. Add a gallon of plain household bleach per 10,000 gallons of pool water each evening. Purchase and use a cheap local OTO/phenol red kit (yellow/red drops). Skip bleach doses if the chlorine level is dark yellow.



Kickin myself for wasted money on stuff I didn't need.

Don't. It's not like the pool industry promotes this site, or the 2 - 3 others that promote the BBB method!

[RockTaco]

Success!! I can see the bottom of the pool! Still has a light haze (no sparkle yet) but TONS better than it was.

New, quality filter did wonders along with 2.5 lbs of CYA, 3/4 gal of bleach =
5.0 chlorine, 7.2 ph, 170 alk, 50 cya.

Chlorine is up and AK still high, but LOOKS a whole lot better and should be much easier to manage.

Thanks for all the help!

[Watermom]

You are welcome! Great to hear it is shaping up!

[Cords]

Cords --- The CYA test only requires 7 oz. of the reagent plus 7 oz. of pool water. If you buy the K-2006C version of the kit, you get larger bottles of reagents --- 2 oz. vs.0.75 oz at a better price. But, you are correct, that buying some extra R-0013 is a good idea.

Oops! I did the test this morning and realized my goof when I posted that. And my CYA was less than 30, no wonder I was going through so much bleach lately!