Difference in Water Analysis

[gfritz1]

Have been using a fair amount of bleach on my pool especially with the rainy weather we have been having .Have to continue to pump out water . Yesterday I needed some DE so went to the two different pool places to look for DE and also have them test my water .I was shocked at difference . Column one is me with the Taylor K-2006 Kit ,Column 3 is a Pristine Blue Store ,Volumn 2 is Ace Hardware

Free Chlorine 4.6 1.3 1.3
Combined Chlorine .2 2.2 -1.0
Total Chlorine 4.8 3.5 .3
PH 7.2 7.2 7.8
ALK 90 115 180 2 and 3 said with stabilizer correction unsure whatthat means
Hardness 110 124 210
CYA 54 46 35
Copper NT 0 .27
Iron NT .1 .07

Pool is 23000 gal inground vinyl with heater and gets full sum (when out) and DE hayward filter

I was surprised to see the CYA that low as last test I had was around 90 so have been trying to hold chlorine around 7.5 so does not drop below 5. Unsure why it has drop that much .

Cannot explain the difference from pool store to mine and to each other .

I have for the last two years been getting some stain initially on the steps and skimmer and now see at the liner at the top. If I treat with Metal Out it will go away for about 5-7 days then come back .Also the vitamen c(asb acid) will remove it .I have been using mostly Metal Out but the other day use some Vitamen C (abs acid). I am going to do the metal bucket test to see what it tells me and then probally try the treatment with taking the PH down and chlorine down and adding .5 per 10000 gal of abs acid. The metal test from pool store confused me more.

Thoughts?

[BigDave]

A) Thanks for demonstrating our cautions about pool store testing.
2) Some people have had luck removing metals with a CuLater packet.

[gfritz1]

You say "some people have had luck with using a CuLater". Does not appear real positive .

Couple of questions on Culater I see they come in different gpm and all for 20000 gals .So Im at 23000 gals so do I just use one or go with two ? What gpm?

I am just finishing day two of the Metal Bucket Test. So far both buckets are clear and no visible color .Chlorine as expected was high today .Will report in three days .

If you look at my posting you can see I have a stain that occurs every 7 days and then with treatment of Metal Out it fades . From what I read it has to be a Iron stain to be erased with the Vitamen C or am I incorrect ?

Of the Metal chemicals do you have a recommendation between Jacks Magic and Natural Chemestry or another

[PoolDoc]

1. If you have a negative bucket test, it's unlikely you have much metal of any sort (iron, copper, manganese) in your fill water.

2. Between Jacks Magic and Natural Chemistry, I'd go with Jacks Magic. They both do some sleight of hand with their products -- 3 different Jacks Magic products appear to have exactly the same content in the bottle, except for the coloring -- but Natural Chemistry has recently changed the formulation of some other products from marginally effective, to ineffective ingredients, with NO indication of change on the bottle!

3. For using CuLator, the "gallons" figure is purely arbitrary. Also, the packets are not 'used up' unless they change color (except for one unlikely exception), and remain usable so long the packet is not fouled. We recommended getting a larger size, but putting it under a filter sock to keep it from fouling. I'll see if I can post those links below.

4. For clean up, you need a 3 step process: (a) redissolve the metal stain => ascorbic acid (Vitamin C); (b) keep it dissolved => HEDP; (c) remove it from the water => CuLator or filter process. It sounds like, in your case, you may need to use the Vitamin C, and then BRUSH the area -- and that you may need to repeat the process.

If I were you, I'd do the Vitamin C + brushing, everytime the stain reappears, but keep a Culator packet in the skimmer 24/7, for the rest of the season. Remember, the Culator packet can ONLY grab dissolved metals; they have no effect on undissolved metals, like visible stains.

The CuLator product is a special patented plastic material, contained in a bag that goes into the skimmer, that can slowly take metals OUT of your pool water. We think it works, and have some evidence that it does, but not proof yet. (Not likely to be available locally.)

1 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003C5PNUW/poolbooks) @ Amazon
1.5 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004Y6RK3Q/poolbooks) @ Amazon
4 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B007AHDMTM/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Vitamin C Crystals Ascorbic Acid 100% Pure Powder, 3lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0013OQIIK/poolbooks)
Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004XUIRQW/poolbooks) @ Amazon (to protect CuLator from being damaged by scum)

[BigDave]

What Ben said.
It's not that I doubt the CuLater works, My belief right now is that it does. We, here at Pool Forum, haven't seen enough positive results to recommend the product without reservation. I think you should try it - but - I don't have confidence enough to tell you that it will work. Like I said "Some people have had luck removing metals with a CuLater packet". perhaps you will have (and report) a positive experience that will bolster our opinion.

[PoolDoc]

It may help to keep in mind that the CuLator can 'work', in the sense of removing soluble metals from water, and still NOT 'work for you' in the sense of solving your pool problems. The first thing (removing soluble metals) is much less complex than the second (solving your pool problem).

That's why I recommended a multi-step process.

[gfritz1]

Thanks for your advice . So today was day 5 of the bucket test and I had a brown stain around the outer diameter of the pool water bucket much like I see on my steps-skimmer and liner. The fill water was clean . I added a little ascorbic acid to the pool water bucket taking care to keep it on the one side and as expected the stain disappeared . I have about 2.4 lbs of ascorbic acid powder on hand , have the skimmer socks and are waiting for the cuLator to arrive . So I do not have any HEDP -I assume need this? Can you make a recommendation ? The reason I ask if needed is that in the one reply you suggested just treating with the ascorbic acid when the stain appears and then brush and with the CuLator in the skimmer should hopefully over the summer remove the metal . No mention of HEDP in that reply so asking clarification.

My cya continues to drop as all I have used over the last year is bleach since having a serious chlorine demand last year . It was 90-95 and on the check the other day was at 45 . At what point to I need to worry about adding stabilizer ?

Water is clear and 86 and with forecast of mid 80 this week in Pa we will be enjoying

Thanks again

[gfritz1]

1. If you have a negative bucket test, it's unlikely you have much metal of any sort (iron, copper, manganese) in your fill water.

2. Between Jacks Magic and Natural Chemistry, I'd go with Jacks Magic. They both do some sleight of hand with their products -- 3 different Jacks Magic products appear to have exactly the same content in the bottle, except for the coloring -- but Natural Chemistry has recently changed the formulation of some other products from marginally effective, to ineffective ingredients, with NO indication of change on the bottle!

3. For using CuLator, the "gallons" figure is purely arbitrary. Also, the packets are not 'used up' unless they change color (except for one unlikely exception), and remain usable so long the packet is not fouled. We recommended getting a larger size, but putting it under a filter sock to keep it from fouling. I'll see if I can post those links below.

4. For clean up, you need a 3 step process: (a) redissolve the metal stain => ascorbic acid (Vitamin C); (b) keep it dissolved => HEDP; (c) remove it from the water => CuLator or filter process. It sounds like, in your case, you may need to use the Vitamin C, and then BRUSH the area -- and that you may need to repeat the process.

If I were you, I'd do the Vitamin C + brushing, everytime the stain reappears, but keep a Culator packet in the skimmer 24/7, for the rest of the season. Remember, the Culator packet can ONLY grab dissolved metals; they have no effect on undissolved metals, like visible stains.

Ben I have the Culator now plus the Vitamen C so when the stain returns am ready to follow your and Dave's recommendation . I did not get any Jacks Magic Pink as if understand correctly your suggesting add the Culator and treat with the Vitamin C and brush and just do this everytime the stain appears? Its been almost two week with no stain but am getting ready