Old Pool to a New Owner

[TonyIsSocial]

Hello all,

I just bought a house in Clearwater, FL in January that was built in the '70s. I had a pool service change the pool from green to blue back in February and wanted to gradually get myself to maintain it.

I'm exploring the forums and first thing I've learned so far is I need a test kit. The 2 recommended on Amazon are $60 and $120. I'll start off with the $60 kit.

Some details I'm assuming are relevant:
The pool gets full sun all day.
There's an evergreen tree that drops needles in it.
Only chemicals I've been adding since I started taking full control (2-3 weeks ago) are chlorine (Shock Plus from Costco) and muriatic acid from Leslie's. Doses based on Leslie's recommendation.
Bought a new Zodiac MX-8 about a month ago.
New filter also about a month ago.

The problem that brings me here:
Lots of algae on filter clogging flow, increasing PSI to ~30
I spray the algae off the filter every 2 days or else the pool water isn't circulating and no pressure to move the vacuum around. I tried soaking the filter in a half bag of shock chlorine and it still went green within 24-48 hours. Here is a link to pictures and a video on Dropbox: http://db.tt/G3O5IvoV

I think my problem is chemically based and I'm completely ignorant.

Please help,
Tony

[PoolDoc]

Pics:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6bc0eMa6EJU/Ua4tW2vIWoI/AAAAAAAAFfg/_Xdd3vLCMtM/s800/2013-06-01%252012.45.35.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UpK9sAxmjwA/Ua4tYeKA8DI/AAAAAAAAFfo/naZdfZunD_I/s800/overall-pool.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qdHG9us4zsw/Ua4tZMsuRJI/AAAAAAAAFfw/XFw3yGk-PUA/s800/2013-06-01%252012.44.49.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-udMSkbB1K1o/Ua4tfQ-pyGI/AAAAAAAAFf4/9g6C8A83Lc4/s800/2013-06-01%252012.46.07.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8t1UkbNoCag/Ua4tfyJgPMI/AAAAAAAAFgA/r22rbTZ0pEA/s800/2013-06-01%252012.46.18.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jkBKCHuQSyI/Ua4tg6iS-2I/AAAAAAAAFgI/FYTuT-G8J-0/s640/2013-06-01%252014.17.20.jpg https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2xhtosRyOlU/Ua4thwQPi2I/AAAAAAAAFgU/Voq28p_0tkM/s640/2013-06-01%252015.59.17.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vyejn4T-Dq8/Ua4tikG-sLI/AAAAAAAAFgY/PJy1agHC9CY/s640/2013-06-03%252017.40.32.jpg

[PoolDoc]

You've got mustard algae growing. You need higher chlorine. Without a K2006's test results, I can't tell how high. Pool store results are PARTICULARLY inaccurate on CYA levels, which is critical in this case.

1. Order a K2006 ASAP

2. Get an OTO/phenol red (yellow / red) drops, and adjust your chlorine level to the orange-ish yellow level (not on scale)

3. Post your pump make / model AND your filter make / model. Your filter cartridge has collapsed pleats, and is probably too small for your pump, making your problems worse in multiple ways.

[TonyIsSocial]

I ordered K2006 and got the delivery notification already. I'm hoping your step 2 will make sense when I receive it... :)

I just went out and put another bag of Shock Plus in and turned the pump on for an hour.

All that is legible on the pump housing is WaterAce Listed 96R5. The rest is decayed and not legible.

On the cartridge housing is this label:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-flFytk9pTlM/Ubhdi569j5I/AAAAAAAAFj8/eCSMc5s3lp0/s535/filter%2520label.jpg

I took that to Leslie's and they sold me a Pleatco and I'm not sure the model but it has several number/measurements on it like PA175. I could probably dig up the receipt or call them.

I understand you're busy and extremely grateful for your time.

[PoolDoc]

http://www.waterace.com/manuals.html

Work your way through that page, and see if you can find your pump. If not, call them at "If you have a Water Ace product and are looking for assistance, please call 1-800-942-3343."

[TonyIsSocial]

Ok, I got the K2006 Thursday and just got around to doing the chlorine test. I got 1.2ppm free chlorine and 0 combined (I think anyway). I did a 25ml sample in an area out of the flow of water at 18" deep. 2 scoops of the powder turned it a dark pink and 6 drops made it clear. 5 drops of the other and it was still clear.

Looking at Table B will tell me how much chlorine to add for 30ppm to kill the algae based on %available chlorine and volume of pool, however, I'm not sure how to calculate %available. I'll be using Aqua Chem's Shock PLUS (Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione 58.2%) - 1LB.

I haven't gotten around to calling WaterAce yet as they have the same work hours as me but I'll get to it this week. Meanwhile, if I keep the filter cartridge sprayed off, the pressure is between 5-20 and plenty of circulation around the pool for about 48 hours.

btw, I was joking around on Facebook about buying this kit, and my cousin Bryan (who I went to first for help before here because he has "been in the biz for 20 years") made these comments (image below). He didn't reply to my initial call for help so I tried to sound smart just to troll him... ;)

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l571/TonyIsSocial/K-2006onFacebook.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/TonyIsSocial/media/K-2006onFacebook.jpg.html)

[PoolDoc]

Do you already have the AquaShock Plus? It's 58% dichlor but that means the actual chlorine percent is much lower, since 100% dichlor is only about 55% chlorine. Your product is 58% x 55% (0.58 x 0.55) or 32% chlorine!

Do this:
1. In the evening, brush and then add 4 gallons of household bleach for each 10,000 gallons of pool water (24 ppm dose)
2. Test your CYA level, and report that here.
3. Tell us what your pool dimensions are, or what your gallons are.

[TonyIsSocial]

I do already have the AquaShock Plus; bought it and tabs at Costco. Do I wait after the 4 gallons to test CYA? I'm ok to use the PLUS for regular maintenance right? The bleach is just to kill this algae?

Here's a rough dimension drawing of the pool, not sure the best way to calculate volume:

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l571/TonyIsSocial/PoolDimensions.png (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/TonyIsSocial/media/PoolDimensions.png.html)

[PoolDoc]

Sorry about the Costco purchase; that's why I tell people to by pool chems at Sams, not Costco. Sams sells (at least for the last 3 years) undiluted trichlor and dichlor; Costco sells the mess you've got. I don't remember what ELSE is in it, so I can't recommend it at the moment, but it's probably OK so long as there is NO copper in it.

+ You can test for CYA at any time; chlorine levels don't affect the test.

+ Volume calculation: 7.48 gal/ft3 x [(3.5 x 9 x 24) + (6.5 x 14 x 13) - (14 x 0.5 x 3 x 3)] = ~14,000 OR 11,900 gallons.

spreadsheet here: http://goo.gl/wE4tN -- the difference is whether 3.5' is the WATER depth, or the POOL depth.

+ bleach is just a predictable way to add chlorine, that we can recommend without worrying about side-effects or what ELSE is in the bleach. Algae doesn't care whether you have FC = 30 ppm from bleach or Shock Plus. *YOU* may care if the Shock Plus has enough copper to turn hair green and stain your pool!

[TonyIsSocial]

That's the water depth, so 14,000, thanks! I'll pick up 6 gal of bleach tomorrow on the way home tomorrow and pick this back up.

Thanks Ben.

[PoolDoc]

you're welcome.

[TonyIsSocial]

Ok, I bought and put in 6 jugs (121 fl oz) of Great Value bleach: SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE 8.25% which says it yields 7.86% available chlorine.

CYA tested at 48.

I rinsed the filter and brushed the walls. The pump is running.

[BigDave]

... my cousin Bryan (who I went to first for help before here because he has "been in the biz for 20 years") made these comments ...People pay your cousin to work on their pools - Yikes!
Mustard algae is hard to kill and will take a lot of time, perseverance, and chlorine. More chlorine than any strip can measure.

[TonyIsSocial]

I guess in his defense, since he's family, he builds pools...

[PoolDoc]

Many pretty decent pool builders know almost nothing about pool chemistry, though not all of them acknowledge that.

Just saying . . .

[TonyIsSocial]

Yes, no further advice will be solicited from him.

So what's my next step after the bleach and CYA being at 48?

(BTW, I also added my phone and address for verification.)

[TonyIsSocial]

All I could get out of that customer service number from the WaterAce website was the pump is 3/4 HP. Is that helpful?

[PoolDoc]

All I could get out of that customer service number from the WaterAce website was the pump is 3/4 HP. Is that helpful?

That info, plus the filter label, is enough to tell that the pump is not too large for the filter.

Do this:
1. record filter pressure with pump on -- is it always 30 psi as shown in the picture?
2. turn the pump off -- read and record filter pressure. (should be zero if gauge is functioning)
3. remove cartridge; reassemble filter; turn pump on and record pressure. Measure the LENGTH and DIAMETER of the cartridge as accurately as you can. ALSO, measure the INSIDE DIAMETER of the the center hole of the cartridge.
4. turn pump off, replace cartridge (after cleaning if you like), turn pump on and record pressure.

If the gauge is working, and the difference between #3 and #4 is more than 5 psi, you probably need a new cartridge.

Here's what happens to the cartridges:
1. When new, each folded pleat is separated by a small amount of space.
2. BUT, the pleats can only support a few PSI *across* the surface of the filter material, before they collapse and touch each other. If the pressure WITHIN the filter tank, but OUTSIDE the cartridge becomes 10# or even 5# more than the pressure INSIDE the cartridge (in the center tube area), then the pleats COLLAPSE and press against each other.
3. Once the pleats collapse, the effective surface area of the cartridge becomes as little as 10% (!) of the ORIGINAL surface area.
4. If the time period of the collapse is brief AND if the pleats are not too close together already, the pleats may spring back when cleaned.
5. BUT, if the collapse continues for a long period because the pump is too big, OR because the filter is run for a long period dirty, then the collapse becomes permanent, and the cartridge is essentially ruined.
6. Use of very stiff 4oz REEMAY, instead of cheaper 3oz Asian knock-off REEMAY copy will resist this failure. Also, older cartridges, with more space between pleats, will resist collapse. Unicel and Filbur cartridges have 4oz genuine REEMAY. Pleatco and other brands usually use cheaper, lighter weight Asian fabrics.
7. The pictures of your cartridge, while you were cleaning it, indicate that your cartridge is already destroyed -- and has a EFFECTIVE cartridge size that is 1/4 or less of the ORIGINAL size.
8. Replacing it with a Unicel will likely reduce your problems with filtration, and will improve filter performance.
9. BUT, you must be careful to clean the cartridge BEFORE you see a filter pressure rise of 8 psi.
10. I'll need to help you select a Unicel cartridge -- it's hard to buy them, because Pleatco cartridges are cheaper AND higher margin for retailers, so they are sold MUCH more commonly.

[TonyIsSocial]

The pressure from #1 was 10psi. It's not always at 30, that was just when it was clogged with the algae.

#2 pressure was 0psi

There was only light algae/dirt on it at #3

#4 pressure is at 3psi

Outside diameter = 9"
Inside diameter = 4"
Length = 17.25"

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EpFYIh1DML4/Ubjfz38DlFI/AAAAAAAAKRc/kBDPNkwKpgs/w123-h218/IMAG0715.jpg - https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Oq6fFOJ584o/Ubjf5W733zI/AAAAAAAAKRo/y4IuROSbWdA/w218-h123/IMAG0716.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Looks like this is what you are looking for:

Waterway Pro Clean 100 => Unicel C-8409 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000OWHZQ6/poolbooks)

Unicel specs are 8 15/16" OD; 17 3/8" long;

The pressures you report are consistent with a collapsed filter. I'd recommend getting two cartridges and swapping them out whenever pressure climbs to 5 psi above initial. Once you get the cartridges, use this guide to cleaning them:
Cleaning-your-Cartridge-Filter-wiithout-Damaging-It! (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?18044)

[TonyIsSocial]

Purchased 2. I'll post again when installed with psi readings.

[TonyIsSocial]

Pleatco was at 4psi
Unicel cartridge installed and at around 3psi.
Pic of both side by side is with pleatco after running 2 days after being sprayed off.

Dumped bag of shock I mentioned before Sunday night as I was starting to notice algae growth. FC currently at 3.2ppm

https://www.dropbox.com.KILLED/s/2t9qzxobj4hc4xf/2013-06-18%2017.04.55.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OU_3xsilmZM/UcDvcmTM0dI/AAAAAAAAFlw/u3WbODJdZRY/s800/2013-06-18%252017.04.55.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Do you notice any difference between the cartridges? Is the filter material in the Unicel stiffer? Is the Unicel company name stamped or molded into the end pieces?

[TonyIsSocial]

Yes, stiffer. UNICEL was stamped on the end piece. The pic is of the label.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r55h5fedj1egwo/2013-06-18%2017.04.23.jpg

[PoolDoc]

If you think to do so, I'd love to have you post a follow-up in a month or so.

[TonyIsSocial]

Will do, thanks! Can you verify my account?

[PoolDoc]

done.

[TonyIsSocial]

Well it hasn't been quite a month yet but I'm getting algae growth again. It's been raining for 40 days and 40 nights it feels like. Right now my FC is 3.0 and CC is 0. I just opened the housing to see the filter since I last posted and the image below is what I found.

The psi is still at 4.

Also, I'm not sure on how often I'm supposed to add chlorine or the proper level. I've been adding a bag of that shock plus every 5 days or so until it's all gone and then I'll purchase something else.

I'll pick up 6 gallons of bleach again and put it in tonight unless I hear otherwise.

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l571/TonyIsSocial/2013-07-05172949.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/TonyIsSocial/media/2013-07-05172949.jpg.html)

[Watermom]

If you are getting algae, then it is because you are letting your chlorine get too low. How often are you testing the water? Run a set of tests with your K-2006 and post them along with your volume. What are the ingredients in the shock plus?

[TonyIsSocial]

How often should I be testing the water? :)

Added 6 gallons of bleach Friday

Right now:
3.9 FC
0.2 CC
CYA 54
4 drops R-005 for ph 7.7
Volume 14,000

So with these results it looks like my chlorine level is ok but I need to lower my ph by adding 2qts of Muriatic Acid?

[Watermom]

Adding 6 gallons in your pool all at one time raises the chlorine level by 35ppm!

A better plan until you get a feel for your pool's behavior, is to take 5 minutes and test every evening. Also, with a CYA of 54 (how did you get that number?), your chlorine is on the low end of acceptable. (Take a look at the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below.)

What was your actual pH (before the R-005)?