Pool heater connection issue

[mccauley444]

Hello all, my first post here.

I just installed a Starite Maxitherm heater where an ancient Teleydne was. The Starite can be connected to a Jandy controller and allow it to be turned on and off by the controller box. Here's my question......

The Jandy controller identifies the circuit with controls the heater as a 24 volt circuit which I connect to the heater. ON the heater is a circuit that the manual identifies as the fireman circuit that is also a 24 volt circuit but has a looping wire that also appears to have an automotive glass fuse in.

If I understand this right I connect that Jandy using the 24 volt circuit to the looped wire on the heater, after cutting it and splicing in the wires from the controller.

I cannot post pictures to describe what I'm seeing. If I could I'd post pics of what I'm seeing.

Does this help to describe anything?

[PoolDoc]

Post pictures using Flickr, Webshots, or something similar. OR, email them to me at poolforum@gmail.com. Mention that you are a subscriber.

But equipment isn't necessarily something I can help with - I'll look at the pics, and make sure others can. You should also post exact model numbers for both the heater and the Jandy controller. Online manuals maybe the only place to find an answer.

[mccauley444]

Ok, here goes....

The Jandy is a RS8 One Touch,
The heater is a Starite SR333NA, but it's propane and not NG

I think I have shared this right. Let me know if you have no access:

http://s1110.photobucket.com/user/mccauley444/library/?sort=3&page=1

The first two are the schematics for each component to the relevant page for heater connection. The third if just the model # for the heater. The fourth is a pic from inside the Jandy box, a schematic on wiring it. The Jandy reserves the #1 and 2 slots on the top to the right for a 24v circuit. I started the pump and measured across the circuit and it had infinite ohms. Pushing the heater button closed the circuit with a measured 1 ohm.. There was no voltage, AC or DC, across it when it was closed or opened. It appears to be a simple switch off of a relay.

The fifth picture is a box inside the heater and I think the circuitry in the box is represented in the Straite manual picture, #1. This circuit is in the lower right of the schematic and is represented as a fireman's switch. I drew a lame looking red arrow on it to point it out.

The pool guy who installed the heater (I could have done it myself) told me that to use the Jandy controller to turn the heater off and I needed to cut the wire in picture 5, the yellow one that says "Fuse" in black writing that loops from what appears to be an automotive fuse. I'm to then connect some low voltage wire to the Jandy from each of the cut ends of the yellow wire but he was not sure where since he's never hitched one up to a Jandy.

Everything points to me cutting the yellow wire, splicing and running to the #1 and 2 blocks on the Jandy. I base that on the Jandy instructions that say it's a 24 volt circuit to those two poles and the 24 circuit on the heater.

Anything you can find out let me know. It really doesn't seem tough but I do n ot want to mess this up.

Thanks a bunch

[PoolDoc]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mi0KZMW8MQM/UbEz4vEIjII/AAAAAAAAFhQ/5DWNS6cw2vg/s640/4d116f97-bae2-4045-828e-c430e71c49b1.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NVeCMHLqGEA/UbEz5C4riHI/AAAAAAAAFhU/40vTUmXNHAI/s800/diagram.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CXVBCiHlBjo/UbEz4gGZO1I/AAAAAAAAFhY/1A_RPiHwAaE/s640/Jandyschematic.jpeg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-54yVvy1JqbQ/UbEz4neiF3I/AAAAAAAAFhM/HD0dgUYfnP8/s800/Jandyschematic-sm.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-47AHf9_uTEE/UbEz5G5vyyI/AAAAAAAAFhk/G4XiMjoXx2Q/s640/photo6.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qyDSSyDQsxo/UbEz5x1ep_I/AAAAAAAAFhs/YkYo_USmTow/s640/photo7.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Offering electrical advice over the Internet always makes me really nervous, but . . . you seem to understand what you are looking and how to use a meter, so here goes.

The fireman's switch circuit you ID'd on the Starite can be connected to any control device or safety, so long as ALL devices are connected in series, not in parallel. In series connections, if any switch fails, the circuit is open (infinite ohms). The circuit is 'connected' or enabled only when ALL switches are closed (> 0.3 ohm)

In millivolt heaters, it is absolutely critical that this circuit must be 'clean' and low resistance, since such heaters operate on tiny voltages and amounts of current. On electronic, transformer driven, heaters such as yours, this is not quite so critical, but still good practice.

It appears that the Jandy has a controlled SP-NO (single pole, normally open) relay in the heater position. This circuit is NOT powered by the Jandy (no voltage), but makes or opens any 24v circuit connected through it. It is NOT to be used with line voltage (>100v) but only with control voltages (<26v).

That said, it appears you can simply unplug the short yellow "fuse" jumper, cut it, and splice it using insulated butt splice connectors.

Do it right -- do not use 'bell wire'. Wire like it was 120v with conduit or 12-2 or 14-2 UF, like this
SouthWire Company 13054221 14/2 WG UF Wire 25-Foot (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000W4EWEE/poolbooks).

You can use a terminal kit like this:
Neiko 175 Pieces Solderless Wire Terminal & Connection with Wire Stripper Crimper Tool (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000K7GRCI/poolbooks)

Watch out for the quality of the splices -- unless you go to an electrical wholesaler, it may be hard to find high quality American made connectors. Lowes's and other similar stores sell some awful junk in this category, mixed in with some decent products. The Amazon kit I linked *looked* OK, and is probably worth a try, since you'll spend more than that buying a single box of 3M or other high-grade connections from a wholesaler. Do NOT get any connections from "General Tool" -- I buy stuff from them, but have found their small electrical device quality to be atrocious.

By the way, doing it yourself, or in this manner, may well be a code violation in your area. I have no idea what consequences -- if any -- that may have for you.

[mccauley444]

Offering electrical advice over the Internet always makes me really nervous, but . . . you seem to understand what you are looking and how to use a meter, so here goes.

The fireman's switch circuit you ID'd on the Starite can be connected to any control device or safety, so long as ALL devices are connected in series, not in parallel. In series connections, if any switch fails, the circuit is open (infinite ohms). The circuit is 'connected' or enabled only when ALL switches are closed (> 0.3 ohm)

In millivolt heaters, it is absolutely critical that this circuit must be 'clean' and low resistance, since such heaters operate on tiny voltages and amounts of current. On electronic, transformer driven, heaters such as yours, this is not quite so critical, but still good practice.

It appears that the Jandy has a controlled SP-NO (single pole, normally open) relay in the heater position. This circuit is NOT powered by the Jandy (no voltage), but makes or opens any 24v circuit connected through it. It is NOT to be used with line voltage (>100v) but only with control voltages (<26v).

That said, it appears you can simply unplug the short yellow "fuse" jumper, cut it, and splice it using insulated butt splice connectors.
.


The heater cannot shut on without the filter pump running. If the pump shuts off so does the heater. Install guy said that was the way it needed to be and I cannot find anything suggesting otherwise.

The wiring should take no more than 15 minutes. I'll let you know how it went.

Thanks PoolDoc

[PoolDoc]

Hm-mh. I overlooked something important. Timers are not commonly used on pools in much of the Southeast, and I forget things that I haven't often had to deal with.

Anyhow, heater's have thermal safety's that SHOULD shut the heater off, if the pump is off. But it's not good to depend on that.

If your Jandy unit does not automatically turn off the pump BEFORE turning the heater off, you'll need to put a flow switch in series with the Jandy control unit, so if flow is low, the heater cannot fire.

[mccauley444]

It does shut the heater off if the filter pump turns off and cannot turn on without the ump being on.

Thanks again

[mccauley444]

PoolDoc,

Thanks for all of your help and advice. You confirmed what I thought and now the heater is controlled by the Jandy and works like a charm.