Help a newbie? [Archive]

GlenKlein

05-30-2006, 10:26 AM

Hi all,

I'm desperately digging through these threads trying to learn as much as I can, but am hoping that "just asking" will get me started?

We just put up our first AG vinyl pool - 16' dia. x 4' deep = 5060 gallons. It has a flitration pump and surface skimmer.

We live in SW Michigan, and are on well water. I filled my pool this weekend, and the water is greenish... is this because of the minerals in our water?

I also spent $100 on this granular stuff that is supposed to control a bunch of stuff at once... I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head (I'm at work), but it was white granular stuff in a 5 gallon bucket from SAM's club.

How can I correct the green water?
How much bleach do I add?
I saw something about a calculator in another thread - where can I find it?
Are there special considerations for well-water?
Is there a good website for newbies?

Please help - I'm confused and wasn't expecting all this when we bought the pool (duh!)

Thanks - Glen

JohnT

05-30-2006, 10:30 AM

Step 1: Get a $15 test kit at Walmart.
Step 2: Post the results here.
Step 3: You will get the best advice you can get from the folks here.:)

waterbear

05-30-2006, 10:57 AM

This is probably the BEST site for a newbie who wants to learn how to take care of their pool; have safe, clear, sparkling water; save money in the process; and make a bunch of great, new friends!

Fist, get a drop based test kit. Walmart has one for about $15 that will get you started but you really should invest in a better kit such as the one sold on the sister website www.poolsolutions.com (http://www.poolsolutions.com) or a kit from Taylor (the K-2006 is a good choice but the kit on poolsolutions is a better 'bang for the buck'!)

mwsmith2's bleach calculator can be found on the link at the bottom of each of his posts but I will post it here to make it easy for you
Get BleachCalc 2.6.2 here: http://www.hal-pc.org/~mwsmith2/BleachCalc262.exe (http://www.hal-pc.org/%7Emwsmith2/BleachCalc262.exe)

The BleachCalc program will let you determine how much bleach and other chemicals you need to add based on your pool and your test results. Most of us on here use it.

Go to www.poolsolutions.com (http://www.poolsolutions.com) and read EVERYTHING on it that you can! It has just about all you need to know to get started! Then read all the 'sticky threads' and FAQ's in this forum. Don't worry if you don't understand some (or even most) of what you read right now. You soon will!

Post a full set of test results including Free Chlorine, Total Chloine, pH, Total Alkalinity, Calcium Hardness, CYA (stabilizer or cyanuric acid) and, if possible iron and copper since you are using well water. Most pool stores can test for these things until you get a kit. Well water might or might not have metals present or might or might not have very high hardness or alkalinity. This is why test results are SO important.

Post the name of the product you bought at Sam's Club and the ingredients in it if they are listed.

With the above info posted the good people on this forum can then help you get your pool where it needs to be and keep it there. Don't be afraid to ask questions. We were all newbies once!:)

One more thing for now....Welcome to the forum!!:)

GlenKlein

05-30-2006, 01:55 PM

waterbear

05-30-2006, 03:47 PM

Hi all,

Thanks for your quick replies... I went out and got the kit and will post numbers tonight.

In the meantime, I got the name of the 70# bucket from Sam's Club:

ProCare Granular Chlorinator
99% Sodium Dichloro-S-Traizinetrione Dihydrate

I'll get back to you with the numbers and thanks for all the help!

Glen That is what we usually just call dichlor. It is a fast dissovling stabilized chlorine that has minimal impact on pH. It is fine to use for both regular sanitation and shocking until your CYA levels get too high (if you use it to shock this can happen quickly, you might want to use bleach to shock so you can get the maximun use out of the dichlor). IF you use it until your CYA gets to about 30-50 ppm and then switch to bleach you should be fine.:) This way you don't have to add stabilizer as a separate chemical. It was actually a good choice for a newbie with a new vinyl pool! You still have to get your water balanced so get those test numbers posted ASAP!

GlenKlein

05-30-2006, 05:58 PM

ok... ran my Walmart test kit.

Please note - on Sunday I put 2 cups of the ProCare stuff in.

Chlorine/Bromine test = ORANGE (off the chart - the chart ended at yellow - my color was almost like a peach orange)

Alkalinity = 330ppm total alklinity as calcium carbonate
pH = 7.5
Hardness = my water didn't turn red as the test said it should.
CYA = 30ppm - the solution never got cloudy enough to hide the black dot.

Hope that tells you guys something - cuz it means nothing to me right now.

Thanks for your help!

waterbear

05-30-2006, 07:06 PM

ok... ran my Walmart test kit.

Please note - on Sunday I put 2 cups of the ProCare stuff in.

Chlorine/Bromine test = ORANGE (off the chart - the chart ended at yellow - my color was almost like a peach orange)
That means your chlorine levels are high. That is where you want it if your water is green from algae. You can extend the scale of your kit by diluting the pool water sample with distilled water. If you dilute 1:1 multiply the test results by 2, 1:2 (1 part pool water to two parts distilled) multiply by 3, 1:3 multiply by 4 and 1:4 mulitply by 5. I would not try to dilute any more thant 1 part pool water to 4 parts distilled water but you have just increased the range of this test up to 25 ppm TC with a slight loss in accuracy!
Don't try and use this test for FC readings. It really doesn't work. OTO reagent only accurately measures TC!

Alkalinity = 330ppm total alklinity as calcium carbonate
This will need to be lowered once you get rid of the green water! When you are ready post a thread on how to lower the TA in the appropriate colomn and read the FAQ on the subject in that forum.

pH = 7.5
Perfect, you want to stay between 7.2 and 7.6

Hardness = my water didn't turn red as the test said it should.
This test in this kit has some problems, it might be the high chlorine levels interfering. At any rate you have a vinyl pool so this parameter is not important for you

CYA = 30ppm - the solution never got cloudy enough to hide the black dot.
Your CYA is below 30 ppm. As you continue to use the dichlor this will rise. Stop using the dichlor and switch to bleach when it hits about 50 ppm and you will be fine.

Hope that tells you guys something - cuz it means nothing to me right now.

Thanks for your help!

The other thing you might want to do is take a sample of water to a pool store and get it tested for metals since you are using well water. If you have metals in the water using a sequestering agent is a good idea. Copper can make the water clear green. I assume your green is from algae but it can be hard to tell without tests for metals and FC. If it is algae then your FC won't be holding and the pool might be cloudy green and have a slimy feel. If it is copper the water can be light green to emerald green. Iron can color the water yellow and if your liner is blue it can make the water look green.

The treatments for these two problems are different and the algae treatment can make the water look worse if it is caused by metals.

If the green is from algae (water might be cloudy and pool will feel slimy) you need to get your chlorine levels to about 10-12 ppm and KEEP THEM THERE until the pool clears while running the pump 23/7 and cleaning the filter as often as necessary. Once the algae dies the pool might have a cloudy look to it from the dead algae. Your filter will take care of it but you might need to be patient.

If the green is from metals (water is very clear but has a color to it, pool has no slimy feel) a treament with a sequestering agent such as Jack's Magic or Proteam Melal Magic will take care of the problem. This is not a 'one time fix' and maintenence doses of the sequesterant will probably be needed on a regular basis and every time you add water so the problem doesn't return.

Next step is to get a sample to the pool store and let them test it for metals but DO NOT BUY ANY PRODUCTS FROM THEM until you post the results!

GlenKlein

05-30-2006, 07:10 PM

waterbear

05-30-2006, 07:23 PM

Thanks Evan - I also forgot to mention:

I noticed an orange residue on my skimmer basket - it almost looks like my skimmer basket is rusting! I tried to wipe it off and it was pretty stubborn (if that tells you anything else).

I'll get to studying your notes!! Thanks so much for your help! :)

And BTW - the water is clear... emarald green was a good call. There is no slimy feel to it at all. Also, the water's only been in the pool for 3 days now and it was emerald green as soon as it was full. Doesn't algae take a while to form?
Algae can form pretty quickly but the color from metals usually happens when high chlorine levels oxidize the metals in the water and usually appear soon after the chlorine is added. At this point I would try getting a bottle of sequesterant and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE BOTTLE in terms of chlorine levels and pH needed when you apply it. I have used Jack's Magic and Proteam Metal Magic and they are both good but there are many good ones out there. It won't really hurt anything if you don't need it and if it is what you need it will work like magic. You can try rubbing the orange stain with a vitamin c tablet and see if it lightens or disappears. If it does then the problem is definitely iron! Post your findings.

GlenKlein

05-31-2006, 08:23 AM

Hi Evan,

I just wanted to ask if there's any possibility of the greenish color coming from sand? We don't live far from Lake Michigan, and the soil around here is sandy... shot in the dark, but wanted to ask.

And also in case it matters - the orange rusty stuff did wipe off of the basket, I just had to rub it vigorously - (otherwise, I would've tried the vitamin C thing).

We live out in the sticks, so I'll have to try and find a nearby pool store for testing... might be difficult, but I'll find out today.

Thanks - Glen

Watermom

05-31-2006, 06:40 PM

waterbear

05-31-2006, 10:05 PM

Especially since you don't live close to a pool store, you need the capability to test your own water reliably. (Actually, everyone does, regardless of where they live. Testing your own water is always better than relying on a pool store.) Consider buying the kit that most of us use from the sister site to this forum www.poolsolutions.com (http://www.poolsolutions.com) .

http://www.poolsolutions.com/cart/ps234.php

I was suggesting in an earlier post that he have his water tested for metals. Unfortunately, most test kits, including Ben's, don't test for iron and copper:(. That is why I suggested the pool store. He has the walmart kit.

waterbear

05-31-2006, 10:08 PM

Hi Evan,

I just wanted to ask if there's any possibility of the greenish color coming from sand? We don't live far from Lake Michigan, and the soil around here is sandy... shot in the dark, but wanted to ask
Don't have a clue:confused:. Sorry. Kinda doubt it though.
And also in case it matters - the orange rusty stuff did wipe off of the basket, I just had to rub it vigorously - (otherwise, I would've tried the vitamin C thing).
Might be from iron or something else.

We live out in the sticks, so I'll have to try and find a nearby pool store for testing... might be difficult, but I'll find out today.
You could purchase test kits for iron and copper but they are probably an unneeded expense. Once you know what is in your water you will know what to treat it with to keep it under control.

Thanks - Glen
Hope this helps.

GlenKlein

06-01-2006, 09:35 AM

Hi Evan,

First - thanks for your patience with me... you've been VERY helpful.

Second... after giving some thought to your answers, I am convinced that my water is YELLOW and that you were right... the blue in the liner makes it look green.

I went to Walmart yesterday and bumped into another guy on well water... he said to get muriatic (sp?) acid and that would clear it up???? :confused:

I looked online for your suggestions to clear up the iron and the Jack's stuff had a pink and a blue version? I'll go back this morning and read the descriptions again, but it didn't appear to be clear to me - which one to order?! I think I want the Blue Stuff (because it's stable in high chlorine and removes iron) but it sounds like that was designed mostly for plaster pools?!

Thanks again... I'm learning a ton if that's worth anything! :)

GlenKlein

06-01-2006, 11:31 AM

no reply necessary... I found the Proteam Metal Magic nearby. I'm gonna give that a shot first.

I'll let you know what happens.

Chaotic

06-01-2006, 01:50 PM

Thanks again... I'm learning a ton if that's worth anything! :)

You cant help but learn a ton with these folks. They really know what they are doing and will help you with just about anything pool related.

Reading this thread brings me to a question: I too am on a well, but I cannot take water to a pool store to test for metals because the results always involve selling something and they dont actually give you the results of the test, its just "put this in and it will fix you up". Is there a test kit available for metals to end users?

JohnT

06-01-2006, 01:52 PM

Reading this thread brings me to a question: I too am on a well, but I cannot take water to a pool store to test for metals because the results always involve selling something and they dont actually give you the results of the test, its just "put this in and it will fix you up". Is there a test kit available for metals to end users?

http://www.poolstore.com/store1/welcome.html?accessories/WaterTests/Taylor/Copper/index.html

Chaotic

06-01-2006, 01:56 PM

Thank you. I assume the copper and iron reagents have a 1 to 2 year life?

waterbear

06-01-2006, 08:33 PM

no reply necessary... I found the Proteam Metal Magic nearby. I'm gonna give that a shot first.

I'll let you know what happens.
Metal Magic will work fine. As far as the Jack's....the Pink stuff is what you want. the Blue Stuff is stronger and works better on high copper concentrations in the water.

waterbear

06-01-2006, 08:35 PM

http://www.poolstore.com/store1/welcome.html?accessories/WaterTests/Taylor/Copper/index.html
These are Taylor kits and are excellent. Reagenys should last at least a year if you store them in the house and you can get the refills directly from Taylor Technologies.

GlenKlein

06-02-2006, 09:01 PM

ok... I'm a little frustrated. Maybe for no reason?

It's now been 24 hours since adding the Metal Magic and my water is still greenish (or yellow with the blue'ish liner).

A couple of things I've noticed that may clue someone in:

We have dogwood trees - with the cotton things flying everywhere lately. In the bottom of my skimmer basket are the cotton things - but they are orange.

It reminds me of the rust stains in our sink/toilet if I let the salt pellets run low in our water softener. We use the "rust removal" type pellets in our water softener and the stains go away - the "rust" stains are the identical color of the dogwood cottons in the bottom of my skimmer.

Is there a correlation here?

Am I being impatient and expecting results from the Metal Magic too soon?

Thanks...

GlenKlein

06-03-2006, 12:46 PM

New numbers -

5/30/06 - Chlorine/Bromine test = ORANGE (off the chart - the chart ended at yellow - my color was almost like a peach orange)
6/3/06 - Chlorine = 1 (a few days ago it was off the chart - see above)

5/30/06 - Alkalinity = 330ppm total alklinity as calcium carbonate
pH = 7.5
6/3/06 - Alkalinity = 300ppm

5/30/06 - Hardness = my water didn't turn red as the test said it should.
6/3/06 - this time the water did turn red - so Evan, you were probably right. The high chlorine was messing with the hardness test.

5/30/06 - CYA = 30ppm - the solution never got cloudy enough to hide the black dot.
6/3/06 - still the same as above.

I think the metal magic may be working btw. It is a little clearer this morning - not quite so green (see post right above this one for orange stuff comments).

I followed the directions on the bottle of the metal magic. 16oz for 5000 gallons... I'm wondering if I can go ahead and dump the remaining 16oz. and hopefully clear it up even more?

Also my Chlorine level really went down in a matter of a few days - so maybe it is an algae thing afterall?

CarlD

06-03-2006, 01:03 PM

New numbers -
...
Also my Chlorine level really went down in a matter of a few days - so maybe it is an algae thing afterall?

Sounds like it--or some other organic. Evan's advice is pretty good--but the trees are news. You need to run your chlorine up to 15ppm--with the distilled water method mixed 2parts distilled to 1 part pool the WalMart test will reach 15ppm. Use 4 1/2 to 5 quarts of Ultra bleach (6%) to raise it there. Or use 5 1/2 to 6 quarts of regular (5.25) bleach. Either is fine. Test the water 2x-3x/day and raise chlorine back to 15 when it drops (anything from 12 to 15 should be OK, but below that, add).

It may take a few days to get results.

GlenKlein

06-03-2006, 02:11 PM

Thanks Carl,

I added more dichlor - Evan said I should wait until my CYA is 50ppm, and then switch to bleach? I will check the Chlorine a little later again.

Also note: I just pulled my filter, and as you might've guessed - it too was pumpkin orange. I just rinsed it out under hot water and it cleaned right up - no problem.

CarlD

06-03-2006, 06:38 PM

You need to raise CYA a little, but anywhere between 30 and 50 is fine. I actually like 40ppm. At that point you stop using di-chlor and switch to bleach. You can, however, follow Evan's advice with confidence--I'd stop sooner than 50ppm but that's me.