Starting from scratch (new water)

[jilted]

After I install the new liner (soon) I will have to, for the first time ever, start from scratch with water balance.

Is there a preferred order of operations? ph adjustments, alkalinity, stabilizer, salt, algaecide?

I understand calcium is not really something to monitor for vinyl liner but is any considerationg gived to that at all?

What should I expect? Not using city water.. well its still public utility water but we are rural (it that makes a difference).

I know I'll need approx 730 lbs of salt according to the compupool salt table, assuming 25,000 gallons (I am closer to 28000) but I know its better to underestimate... maybe start closer to 700lbs.

I just want to make sure I get things right from the start with all new water.

Thanks!
-stephen

[CarlD]

Start with a full test of the water:
FC
CC
pH
T/A
CYA
CH
Temperature.

Get a baseline. If your water's very acidic or alkaline you'll have to fix it.
But, unless you have reason to suspect metals, chlorine's the place to start. If your pH is high and your CYA is low, pucks are a good because they address both. But LC/Bleach is ALWAYS good.

[jilted]

Thanks. I'm waiting on a callback to decide on a pattern and price now. They say I should have it within a week or ordering.

So I should spike it pretty soon after filling it versus getting the salt in there and letting the SWCG start generating FC?

After converting to salt and becoming becoming a forum reader I have never really used an preventive algaecide. Should that be something I should avoid unless there is a problem?

Side note: I'm not getting my email alerts when I get a response any more.

[kelemvor]

It would be a good idea to sanitize with regular chlorine until you get your levels straight. You don't want your SWCG on while salt is still dissolving, as it will read high and potentially damage the cell. You also don't want to run it with the salt level extremely low, the controller would have to boost the current flow potentially reducing cell life. If you wait to sanitize you could end up with algae in your newly lined and filled pool.

Treat it with standard chems, once you've got the levels pretty stable then turn on the swcg to maintain.

If you add bleach while filling (probably a good idea). Make sure you don't get straight bleach directly on your new liner if it's not a white liner. You don't want to fade it out.

[CarlD]

That is actually what I am doing. My cell is installed but not yet connected. Meanwhile I am chlorinating with bleach and letting the salt dissolve in. I estimate I will need 400# so i am letting 200# settle in and I will test with my Taylor drop test until I am in the 3000-3500 range, adding one 40# bag at a time. By then I will be ready for the SWCG to take over. I will also raise my CYA level to 70-80 first as well.

[jilted]

OK finally got new liner and the plan is to install this weekend... wish me luck.

For fun, I did a water test on the hose water just to see what kind of results I got:

pH: just below 7.8
FC: 0
TA: 140
Calcium (for fun just to do it): 20
CYA: 0

Do you think this is fairly representative of the results I will get in the pool with a fresh liner or will the vinyl affect the results?

I bought 20 bags of Morton Salt and if I remember correctly when I converted to salt it took 18 bags to get to ~3500ppm
To get CYA to a modest level of 50ppm I'll need 11 lbs of CYA. Or should I go higher than 50? (my swcg recommends 40-100ppm)
If the pH/alkalinity results are about the same in the actual pool should I even worry with those right away or just focus on shock/sanitize.

I know you all recommend getting some bleach in there right away until I get the salt dissolved and start up the SWCG. I was planning to pre-dilute it in a bucket before pouring it in. On the old liner I just poured it straight into the water! :-)

Side note, my pump seal was leaking REALLY BAD and the bearing were grinding. New motor on the way. I wanted to replace that first so I don't end up with downtime with a new start up. Sucks though my pool is super green and I was really hoping to have it fairly clean so I could change the filter sand and flush it out real good before moving to new water. I guess I'm just going to have to try my best to back flush whatever left over crud is in there and change the sand later. I really didn;t want to introduce old algae into the new pool but I may be just SOL haha.

Thanks!
-stephen

[Watermom]

Your vinyl should not affect your test results. As long as your pH is between 7.0-8.0, you are ok. You can always add more CYA later if you decide to but can't 'take it back out.' So, starting with 50 sounds like a good plan.

[jilted]

Thanks! Since the CYA comes in 3 lb containers maybe I'll just round up to 12lbs. That should still keep me at the lower end of where my swcg recommends.

I was going to start adding salt as soon as I finish making all the cuts and as the pool reaches a foot or so in the shallow. That way I can get the SWCG running as soon as possible. (let the salt circulate for 2-3 hours before starting up the SWCG)

Would you still recommend a few gallons of bleach to kick things off since it would take some time before the SWCG can get ramped up to a reasonable ppm?

[Watermom]

Yes. You don't want to leave water unchlorinated for long. It is surprising how fast a pool will turn green. Don't risk it with new water!

[jilted]

oh i have seen how fast it turns green! I had to refill after measuring and it went green quick. I hit it with bleach and ran the pump and cleaned it up once but the seal was bad and trying to repair the pump was actually worse than just letting it run grinding! So it turned again... quick! I am hosting a serious frog infestation at the moment!

I started draining it again today with a small sump pump to get a head start until the new motor comes in tomorrow.

I'm hoping to have the old liner out and do all the cleaning of the bottom by Friday evening and Saturday so we can start early putting in the new liner. I sure hope that's not too long to have it without water!

[jilted]

OK we are back in business as of yesterday evening and I am now circulating again.

The water is clear but by yesterday evening i could feel the surface a tiny bit slimey so I brushed it before and after adding bleach to kick things off.

I added:
5 gal's of 6% bleach after the sun went down and this morning my reading was 10ppm (with last years reagents)
15 bags of salt and my reading shows 3600ppm which is in line with my swcg recommended levels (have not run swcg yet)
I'm almost done with adding 6 lbs of CYA but I need to do upwards of 12 lbs to get to the low end of my swcg recommended level

So here's my test results from this morning:
FC: 10
CC: 0
pH: 7.8
Alkalinity: 160
CYA: NA (new reagents on the way)

Should I adjust anything from those initial readings or should I let it circulate somemore? It's only been mixing up the water for about 15 hours.

Thanks!
-stephen

[Watermom]

Without knowing your CYA reading, it is hard to know if your chlorine is high enough to kill your impending algae bloom evidenced by the slimy feeling walls. Check the overnight chlorine consumption again tonight and see what that shows.

[jilted]

will do... I'm going to jump in later and feel the floor but the wall was not slimy.

The FC test was approx 14 hours after dosing so I will check again this evening and again in the morning.

the first 6 lbs of CYA has pretty much dissolved so I'm about to go add the 3rd 3lb container which should still have me at the lower end of my recommended level but since I am running pump 24/7 right now anyway I don't want to waste any time getting cya up to a respectable level

[jilted]

FC was 7.5 ppm last night and 7.0 ppm this morning. I haven't powered up the SWCG yet but I guess it's time. Salt test last night shows 3600 ppm. I was waiting to start it up to get an idea how fast the FC is burning off but ever since I added chems (2 days ago) it's been cloudy and cool here.

I know I need to continue adding CYA but my salt calculation was 18 bags to get to 3500 ppm and I am at 3600 with 15 bags. I am still waiting on my new CYA reagent to test. I don't want to over stabilize!

thanks
-stephen

[jilted]

Just checking in. Water has been pretty good.

FC has been easy to manage so far.
Having trouble getting pH to level off I guess the SWCG is keeping it increasing. Also the alkalinity never drops when adjusting pH.

Test today:
FC: 5.5 ppm
CYA: ~50 ppm
pH: close to 8
Alkalinity: 140 ppm

I've dosed muriatic acid a few times according to the book in the taylor test kit. 2 drops bring the test in line. The ph does come down after this but rises again in a couple days. The alkalinity stays 140.

I've been running my pump 18 hours a day which should be enough to circulate the whole pool twice. The SWCG was running at 100% but I have reduced it to 80% to see if thats enough to keep the FC stable.

Any input on my pH/alkalinity situation?

Thanks!

[BigDave]

I'd target 7.0 - 7.2 for pH and try to keep it there until the TA is where you want it.