Open Pool, Shocked But No Chlorine Level

[karenk]

Hi,
Hubby opened the pool yesterday (15 x 24 above ground)....water nice, just a bit cloudy. I did see him scrubbing the ring around the liner with the squeeze bottle/scrubber remover..and he also used an algecide.....then he shocked it with liquid chlorine....took a read out and showed "0" level of chlorine....so he put the powder chlorine in and same "0" reading...

I saw in one of the "hint" pages this..

Try to avoid using a bunch of foamy algaecides or foamy tile line cleaners. These can create a chlorine demand in your pool that won't quit. This means you'll add chlorine, and add chlorine, and nothing will seem to happen. This is NOT A GOOD THING. [/SIZE][/SIZE]


How do we adjust so that we can build up the chlorine level...don't remember this happening last year!! :o):(

[aylad]

What kind of test equipment are you using?

Janet

[karenk]

We just use those test strips in the bottle...we have used them for 5 years and never had a problem. (I know some people like the more "professional" testing method, but we are pretty much sticking with the strips).

How much chlorine should we be adding at a time now to build the chlorine level...do we still use the regular 'shock" some say "super shock" envelope packages to dump in or is that too much at a time?

[aylad]

How much chlorine you need to put in to get to the shock level depends on your current CYA, which you haven't posted yet. And I know that you like the strips, but just understand that they've been known to be pretty inaccurate, especially with high chlorine levels.

Depending on the other parameters of your water (pH, alk, CYA, CH), you could use bleach, shock, "super shock", or the chlorine method of your choice. Trichlor and dichlor are going to lower your pH and raise your CYA. Cal-hypo won't affect your pH or CYA but will increase your CH levels. Bleach won't affect anything directly except your Cl levels. Whatever form you use, add enough to get to "shock" level based on your CYA (see Ben's Best Guess Chart as a guideline).

Janet

[gregugadawg]

Janet actually test strips are being proven to be more and more accurate and sometimes actually they are considered more accurate than the drops since there is no level of human error involved. Some health departments are actually allowing strips to be used in commercial applications as well.

[DavidD]

test strips are being proven to be more and more accurate and sometimes actually they are considered more accurate than the drops since there is no level of human error involved.

gregugadawg, that's a pretty broad statement. I'd like to see the “proof” you are referring to. Health departments also “allow” a lot of other things and make recommendations that are entirely out of date so I wouldn’t be too trustworthy of their allowances . I have and still do buy test strips and must admit they seem to be getting better however, accurate? I think not. Unless you believe a color match for PH between 7.2 & 7.8 is good enough or TA between 40 and 120 is an accurate enough reading or CYA between 50 and 100 will get the job done. Maybe you’ve hit on something, they remove the human error by being extremely vague. Seems to me it would be hard to truly manage your water with such imprecision. Now I know there are new strips with tighter scales but more accurate, I still wonder.
What Janet is saying about the strips being inaccurate with high chlorine levels is absolutely the truth. They will bleach out and it has happened when people shock their pools, test with strips and believe they need more shock when actually they are outside the range for the strips they are using. This may very well be what karenk is experiencing here. Drop based test kits, good ones, are far less intimidating than they appear (my kids are testing regularly) and their accuracy is unprecedented, especially DPD testing of chlorine. They take slightly more time to do a test but isn’t it worth it? I’d hate to keep adding chlorine to karenk’s vinyl lined pool then keep searching for the chlorine that will probably never show up until the liner starts turning white. Either way, the decision is entirely up to karenk. The one thing I have yet to hear is regret that someone spent the money on a good drop based test kit.

Note:I see the test strip "issue" has already been addressed by Waterbear, a far more chemistry minded one than I, in the Princess and the Algae post. I digress...

[CarlD]

I have two of the best kinds of test strips you can get as a pool owner, and they are fresh this season.

I also have PoolDoc's PS232 and PS233 kits. I have the WalMart HTH 5-way kit, and Leslie's FAS-DPD test kit (made by Taylor) AND Leslie's full test kit for all the other tests (again, made by Taylor).

I can flat-out state categorically, that there is NO WAY these strips compare in accuracy or reliability to the drop kits. These new strips are now good enough to give a reasonable BALL-PARK view of the water--but no more.

This is a huge improvement. Previous strips have ONLY been able to say if I have lots of chlorine, or little to none--no more.

Greg, I have no idea what you are basing your statement on. Certainly it cannot be from day-to-day comparisons, like I have made over the last 7 years.

I have found LOTS of pool stores using and pushing strips for one reason, and one reason only--they are EASY TO USE--apparently. Oh--and they are expensive, too. But that is deceptive. You have to use them and read them VERY carefully. And most importantly, you have to be VERY skeptical of them and know when the SLIGHTEST thing off means you cannot trust it.

I can and do use strips--I'd rather not but with two kids and school, I'm lucky some days to have the 30 seconds for a strip, much less the 2-5 minutes I need for drop-testing--which I ALWAYS prefer.

If you use strips, use them wisely. Be skeptical of them. And do NOT use them instead of drop testing.

[duraleigh]

Hi, Carl,

That is a well thought out post. Excellent. :)

[waterbear]

I agree with Carl 150% on all points! The strips are useful for a quick check on your levels to make sure they are in range. Accuracy of the strips are not in question. They are extremely accurate and based on excellent chemistries. The problem with them is the precision (or rather the lack of) and the amount of human error in using them reading them because of the procedure that needs to be followed and the lack of resolution on the scale provided. There is a big difference between accuracy (is the test giving the proper results?) vs. precision (is the scale precise enough that I can determine whether the pH is actually 7.4 or just somehwhere between 7.2 and 7.8?). This is the biggest problem with strips! They aren't as easy to use as most people think. If you look at the instructons on the LaMotte 6 way strips, for example, they tell you to hold the strip HORIZONTALLY in the water, swirl it three times with the pads face up, remove them from the water without shaking off the excess, and give you a time frame of seconds in which to read each test in order starting with CYA which is to be read immediately for accurate results. IMHO, I think this is actually harder for most people to perform correcty than a test with a drop based kit!

[karenk]

tested the pool again today and says no chlorine...hmmm.

PH was 7.2, Alk was 180 and CYA was around 85.....

Could lack of chlorine be from simply using the algecide? This is driving me crazy...I want to go in my pool!!!:rolleyes:

[alr582003]

As you can see from the enclosed JPG I am battling a foam monster. It has
been a week and I can't seem to get rid of the cappuccino look that my pool
has, please help summer is here and I want to enjoy my pool. It was
suggested to me to have the copper level check... What else can I do?

[karenk]

[QUOTE=CarlD]I have two of the best kinds of test strips you can get as a pool owner, and they are fresh this season.

I also have PoolDoc's PS232 and PS233 kits. I have the WalMart HTH 5-way kit, and Leslie's FAS-DPD test kit (made by Taylor) AND Leslie's full test kit for all the other tests (again, made by Taylor).

Wow that's alot of different test kits to have...why so many? WE have a walmart and Leslies here in NJ as well, I would like to try one of those....any thoughts?

Karen:D

[karenk]

As you can see from the enclosed JPG I am battling a foam monster. It has
been a week and I can't seem to get rid of the cappuccino look that my pool
has, please help summer is here and I want to enjoy my pool. It was
suggested to me to have the copper level check... What else can I do?

Is that photo for real? OMG!! Not sure your post belongs under this "no chlorine" topic...maybe someone can advise you where to post so you are more likely to get responses you are looking for.;)

[kevincad]

I have two of the best kinds of test strips you can get as a pool owner, and they are fresh this season.

I also have PoolDoc's PS232 and PS233 kits. I have the WalMart HTH 5-way kit, and Leslie's FAS-DPD test kit (made by Taylor) AND Leslie's full test kit for all the other tests (again, made by Taylor).

I can flat-out state categorically, that there is NO WAY these strips compare in accuracy or reliability to the drop kits. These new strips are now good enough to give a reasonable BALL-PARK view of the water--but no more.

This is a huge improvement. Previous strips have ONLY been able to say if I have lots of chlorine, or little to none--no more.

Greg, I have no idea what you are basing your statement on. Certainly it cannot be from day-to-day comparisons, like I have made over the last 7 years.

I have found LOTS of pool stores using and pushing strips for one reason, and one reason only--they are EASY TO USE--apparently. Oh--and they are expensive, too. But that is deceptive. You have to use them and read them VERY carefully. And most importantly, you have to be VERY skeptical of them and know when the SLIGHTEST thing off means you cannot trust it.

I can and do use strips--I'd rather not but with two kids and school, I'm lucky some days to have the 30 seconds for a strip, much less the 2-5 minutes I need for drop-testing--which I ALWAYS prefer.

If you use strips, use them wisely. Be skeptical of them. And do NOT use them instead of drop testing.

My case is exactly as you've stated. I do have, and do use strips on occasion, because I have two kids also! I have actually done side-by-side testing with the strips, and they just weren't accurate. Like you, I can tell if there is little, or some or no cl in the pool.

[alr582003]

Yes, I am afraid it is very real... I use test strtips after adding the chemicals the pool store told me to add and the only thing that did not register was the Chlorine. I am thinking of opening a Starbucks in my back yard.


Is that photo for real? OMG!! Not sure your post belongs under this "no chlorine" topic...maybe someone can advise you where to post so you are more likely to get responses you are looking for.;)

[karenk]

Yes, I am afraid it is very real... I am thinking of opening a Starbucks in my back yard.


that was sooooooooo funny, I laughed so hard when I read this.....good luck to you!!!:D

[karenk]

fyi... I just took a test strip, dipped it in the chlorine puck floater and yes, it turned dark dark purple...so the strips are working.......
Maybe I'll just take a sample to the pool store today.....thanks everyone.

[CarlD]

[quote=CarlD]I have two of the best kinds of test strips you can get as a pool owner, and they are fresh this season.

I also have PoolDoc's PS232 and PS233 kits. I have the WalMart HTH 5-way kit, and Leslie's FAS-DPD test kit (made by Taylor) AND Leslie's full test kit for all the other tests (again, made by Taylor).

Wow that's alot of different test kits to have...why so many? WE have a walmart and Leslies here in NJ as well, I would like to try one of those....any thoughts?

Karen:D

Well, part of it is because I'm a moderator and like to have as much knowledge as I can absorb (in certain areas like "Feet of Head" it isn't much!) and I found that the little OTO kits can vary widely. I have a bunch of them, too. I also like to know what people can get. The Leslie's pair of kits isn't offered anymore, but they have on their website a full kit with FAS-DPD testing for chlorine. It's functionally the same as PoolDoc's but it's not as easy to use at first. Once you get the hang of the Taylor kits, they are all pretty easy to use. The WalMart HTH 5-Way seems to be readily available in some parts of the country, but no longer here. Now they are pushing the HTH 6-way test strips instead--pure garbage. The 5-Way drop kit is not nearly as good as PoolDoc's kits, Taylor's or Leslies' FAS-DPD kit. But for $12 to $15 it's the best bargain in testing you can get and is far better than any other kit I've seen (including the BioGard ones).

I'm not sure what to do with all that foam. I suspect the basics: lots and lots of bleach, and filter 24/7--and patience.

Algaecide is ONLY usuallyl good for prevention, and then only PolyQuat, not the others.

[aylad]

In answer to your original question, yes it's possible that the algaecide is creating a huge demand, depending on what he used and how much of it. The only thing you really can do is keep pouring the bleach to it until it oxidizes whatever is causing the demand. I'm just hesitant to do that until I have test results I can rely on.

Janet

[karenk]

Just got back from Leslies water testing. The water is balanced, as far as PH, alk, CYA etc....he said that it's called Chlorine Breakpoint, where sometimes you can have more nitrates and phosphates??? and that the pool could have just been dirtier than in the past (though it was clear)...and that I just have to add 2 one-pound packages of Power Powder Plus (its fast-dissolving shock treatment and superchlorinator..73% calcium hypochlorite)--....wait 4 hours and then test...if still no chlorine registering...do same again ...wait 4 hours, test, etc...then once the level is where I want it to use just one 1lb package per week. (seems like alot cause the one-pound bag treats 16, 500 gallons and we only have a 9,000 gallon pool)....but here it goes....:confused:

[ivyleager]

Did pool store give you a print out, and if so, please post the number values here. My doctore once told me my cholesterol was fine, but when I asked to see the lab print out, it was 2 points above normal......not so fine.

It just seems odd that the pool guy continues to have you add stuff, which is why you got into this predicament in the first place.

CaryB
Go 'Canes

[waterbear]

Just got back from Leslies water testing. The water is balanced, as far as PH, alk, CYA etc....he said that it's called Chlorine Breakpoint, where sometimes you can have more nitrates and phosphates???
Breakpoint clorination has nothing to do with nitrate and phospahte levels. It is just another term for shocking the pool to get rid of combined chlorine. It is usually considerred 'breakpoint' if the FC level is raised to 10 times the CC level.
and that the pool could have just been dirtier than in the past (though it was clear)...and that I just have to add 2 one-pound packages of Power Powder Plus (its fast-dissolving shock treatment and superchlorinator..73% calcium hypochlorite)--....wait 4 hours and then test...if still no chlorine registering...do same again ...wait 4 hours, test, etc...then once the level is where I want it to use just one 1lb package per week. (seems like alot cause the one-pound bag treats 16, 500 gallons and we only have a 9,000 gallon pool)....but here it goes....:confused:
any pool with a lot of organics in it will have a high chlorine demand and your chlorine will not hold until the organics are burned off!

[prh129]

Actually this could all make sense - don't some test strips bleach out at high chlorine levels? And didn't someone at Leslie's say you were at breakpoint chlorination? If so, that would mean you were at shock levels and maybe your strips are bleaching out and showing 0. Did Leslie's give you a number reading for your free chlorine?

A cheap OTO kit will be able to identify roughly where your chlorine level is at so that might be be a simple way to test this theory.

Peter

[aylad]

I don't see anywhere in this thread where you have posted a calcium hardness number, but if it was already high, and your alk is high, then adding that much cal hypo is likely to raise it to the point of precipitation and perpetually cloudy water. I really think you'll be doing better with bleach....it's all chlorine, but the bleach won't give you any unwanted side effects (like an elevated calcium level)

Janet

[karenk]

any pool with a lot of organics in it will have a high chlorine demand and your chlorine will not hold until the organics are burned off!


Exactly, and Leslies was right, I just added the 2lbs of that shock and so far, two days later, there is a normal chlorine reading!!! 4 hours after the shock, i tested and it was dark dark purple..too much, of course but the next day and today the level is where it is supposed to be, so I will just do the standard shocking once a week. The guys in the store were right..!:)

[JohnT]

so I will just do the standard shocking once a week.....

Why would you do that? I haven't shocked yet this year, and don't foresee any need to anytime soon. Routine shocking is overkill and a waste of money. Keep your chlorine where it's supposed to be and you won't need to shock.

[waterbear]

I am a pool store guy also but I am not trying to sell you chemicals right now. If you get a good test kit that will test both FC and CC, preferably one that uses the FAS-DPD titration test and not the colometric DPD test with a comparator block you will KNOW when you need to shock. You shock when your Combinde Chlorine is over .5 ppm. Every pool is different, you might need to shock weekly, monthly, or hardly ever! Either Cal Hypo or sodium hypochorite is fine for shocking. Cal Hypo can make your calcium levels go up and can cause your water to cloud but it is easier to transport than liquid. Liquid is usually cheaper and readily avaialbe at any grocery store, walmart, kmart, etc. as 'plain unscented regular or ultra bleach'.

There are some of us pool store guys who do 'get it right', btw!;):D