ChuckDavis
03-11-2013, 02:15 PM
(Possible duplicate post. My login apparently timed out while I was drafting this, and the post might have been lost. Luckily I had copied the draft to my PC.)
This is a restart/recap of a thread from last year. (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?15728-Upsize-Pump-And-Or-Piping) I've digested what folks told me last year, and done some additional research, and now understand that I need to replace my pump (probably with a smaller motor on the existing pump or possibly a variable speed motor or pump) and that there is probably no point in upsizing my above-ground plumbing.
I would appreciate thoughts and recommendations on a replacement pump motor or complete pump replacement.
** 15,000 gallon inground pool
** Equipment pad is 3-4 feet above water level.
** Water feature is approximately 3 feet above water level.
** All plumbing, including inground, is 1.5 inch.
** A *single* 1.5 inch pipe that splits underground to two returns.
** A 1.5 inch pipe to the water feature, with the valve normally only half open.
** Hayward Super Pump, 2-speed, 1.5 HP. 14-15 years old, but motor rebuilt last year.
** The pool is not closed in winter.
** (Additional details below.)
When we bought the house, the pump worked fine on low speed for filtering the pool and running the water feature, although performance of the (Rainbow) chlorinator was marginal in summer. High speed was used for vacuuming.
I added a heat pump that had to be located 30 feet away from the equipment pad (60 ft. total piping run). There is a 3-valve heater bypass at the equipment pad.
With the heater in the circuit, low speed can no longer run the chlorinator or the water feature. With the heater bypassed, low speed works as it used to.
My workaround last year was to reverse the pump wires at the (mechanical) timer during spring/summer/fall swimming season and have the timer turn the pump on and off at high speed. This is wasting large amounts of electricity. In winter, with the heater bypassed, I put the wires back in their normal configuration and the timer turns the pump on and off at low speed.
My options appear to be:
** Keep existing pump and continue to swap wires with the seasons (or wire in a crossover switch).
** Replace pump with a variable speed/variable flow model. (Even with the 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump VS and Max-Flo VS models that are designed for 1.5 inch piping, this is probably not cost effective with electricity costing approximately $0.10/kWh before taxes and fees.)
** Replace pump motor with a variable speed unit. (Also probably not cost effective.)
** Replace pump motor (and impeller) with a 1 HP, 2-speed unit and continue to swap wires with the seasons (or wire in a crossover switch).
** Replace pump motor (and impeller) with a single-speed unit. (I'm hoping that somebody can figure out the total head in my system so that I can pick the correct size motor. If a 1 HP motor is called for, then I might go with a 1 HP, 2-speed unit and save on electricity in the winter.)
** Add a 2-speed pump timer to the existing (or new) 2-speed pump. Run at high speed during swimming season for filtration/heater/water feature/chlorinator. Run at low speed during swimming season for filtration/heater. Run at low speed during winter for filtration/water feature/chlorinator.
** Install Blue-White flowmeter to insure sufficient turns.
(Note - The 1.5 HP variable speed motor and controller used in the Hayward Super Pump VS and Max-Flo VS pumps is going to be available as a replacement motor in the next month or two from A.O. Smith/Century, but the price is unknown and the programming functionality of the controller is poor. It either has to be run 7x24 alternating between two speeds or used with an external timer to start a single sequence of two speeds. (The two speeds could be the same, and reprogrammed seasonally. This would allow multiple start-stops during the day using an external timer with the speed optimized to the seasonal configuration.) Hayward has a 1.85 HP unit with a more robust controller in testing, but the release date is unknown.)
Details:
Note - All valves are 2 inch with reducing couplers
Note - New multiport valve and pressure gauge on filter
Note - Waste/rinse/backwash pipe from filter is approx. 10 ft. of 1.5 inch flex with 1x 90
Suction side
** From skimmer1 through and including manifold - est. 84 ft., 2x 45's, 4x 90's, unknown underground configuration
** From skimmer2 through and including manifold - est. 36 ft., 2x 45's, 4x 90's, unknown underground configuration
** From main drain through and including manifold - est. 45 ft., 2x 45's, 2x 90's, unknown underground configuration
** From manifold to pump - 2x 90's
Pressure side
** From pump to filter - 1x 90
** Filter - Tagelus TA-60, 24", zeolite media
** From filter through and including heater bypass - 4x 90's
** From heater bypass to heat pump and then back to and through heater bypass - 3x 90's, 4x 45's, approximately 30 feet to heat pump and back
** From heater bypass to (but not including) manifold - 1x 90, Jandy check valve, unused Nature2 cartridge holder, Rainbow chlorinator
** From manifold to returns - Single 1.5 inch pipe, 4x 90's, unknown underground configuration, splits underground to two returns with 3/4" eyeballs
** From manifold to water feature - at least 5x 90's (valve usually only partly open)
Backpressure readings (High speed / low speed, water feature turned off)
** Filter set to waste - 8-9 lbs / na
** Filter set to rinse - 14-15 lbs / na
** Filter set to backwash - 15-16 lbs / na
** Filter set to recirculate and heat pump bypassed - 17.5 lbs / 3.5 lbs
** Filter set to filter and heat pump bypassed - 20 lbs / 4.5 lbs (normal winter operation)
** Filter set to recirculate and heat pump in circuit - 22.5 lbs / 5.5 lbs
** Filter set to filter and heat pump in circuit - 23 lbs / 5.5 lbs (normal spring/summer/fall operation)
** No change in backpressure with flapper in Jandy check valve removed
I probably need to replace the pump or pump motor, but is there any chance that increasing the size of the 60 ft. of piping from the heater bypass to the heat pump to 2 inches would yield robust filtering performance and a functioning water feature with the existing pump running at low speed? As noted above, the cholorinator performance was marginal in summer before the heater was added.
To recap:
** I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could calculate the total head of my system so that I can correctly size a replacement pump or pump motor.
** I would appreciate any thoughts and recommendations on my options (or options that I haven't thought of).
My sincere thanks in advance.
This is a restart/recap of a thread from last year. (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?15728-Upsize-Pump-And-Or-Piping) I've digested what folks told me last year, and done some additional research, and now understand that I need to replace my pump (probably with a smaller motor on the existing pump or possibly a variable speed motor or pump) and that there is probably no point in upsizing my above-ground plumbing.
I would appreciate thoughts and recommendations on a replacement pump motor or complete pump replacement.
** 15,000 gallon inground pool
** Equipment pad is 3-4 feet above water level.
** Water feature is approximately 3 feet above water level.
** All plumbing, including inground, is 1.5 inch.
** A *single* 1.5 inch pipe that splits underground to two returns.
** A 1.5 inch pipe to the water feature, with the valve normally only half open.
** Hayward Super Pump, 2-speed, 1.5 HP. 14-15 years old, but motor rebuilt last year.
** The pool is not closed in winter.
** (Additional details below.)
When we bought the house, the pump worked fine on low speed for filtering the pool and running the water feature, although performance of the (Rainbow) chlorinator was marginal in summer. High speed was used for vacuuming.
I added a heat pump that had to be located 30 feet away from the equipment pad (60 ft. total piping run). There is a 3-valve heater bypass at the equipment pad.
With the heater in the circuit, low speed can no longer run the chlorinator or the water feature. With the heater bypassed, low speed works as it used to.
My workaround last year was to reverse the pump wires at the (mechanical) timer during spring/summer/fall swimming season and have the timer turn the pump on and off at high speed. This is wasting large amounts of electricity. In winter, with the heater bypassed, I put the wires back in their normal configuration and the timer turns the pump on and off at low speed.
My options appear to be:
** Keep existing pump and continue to swap wires with the seasons (or wire in a crossover switch).
** Replace pump with a variable speed/variable flow model. (Even with the 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump VS and Max-Flo VS models that are designed for 1.5 inch piping, this is probably not cost effective with electricity costing approximately $0.10/kWh before taxes and fees.)
** Replace pump motor with a variable speed unit. (Also probably not cost effective.)
** Replace pump motor (and impeller) with a 1 HP, 2-speed unit and continue to swap wires with the seasons (or wire in a crossover switch).
** Replace pump motor (and impeller) with a single-speed unit. (I'm hoping that somebody can figure out the total head in my system so that I can pick the correct size motor. If a 1 HP motor is called for, then I might go with a 1 HP, 2-speed unit and save on electricity in the winter.)
** Add a 2-speed pump timer to the existing (or new) 2-speed pump. Run at high speed during swimming season for filtration/heater/water feature/chlorinator. Run at low speed during swimming season for filtration/heater. Run at low speed during winter for filtration/water feature/chlorinator.
** Install Blue-White flowmeter to insure sufficient turns.
(Note - The 1.5 HP variable speed motor and controller used in the Hayward Super Pump VS and Max-Flo VS pumps is going to be available as a replacement motor in the next month or two from A.O. Smith/Century, but the price is unknown and the programming functionality of the controller is poor. It either has to be run 7x24 alternating between two speeds or used with an external timer to start a single sequence of two speeds. (The two speeds could be the same, and reprogrammed seasonally. This would allow multiple start-stops during the day using an external timer with the speed optimized to the seasonal configuration.) Hayward has a 1.85 HP unit with a more robust controller in testing, but the release date is unknown.)
Details:
Note - All valves are 2 inch with reducing couplers
Note - New multiport valve and pressure gauge on filter
Note - Waste/rinse/backwash pipe from filter is approx. 10 ft. of 1.5 inch flex with 1x 90
Suction side
** From skimmer1 through and including manifold - est. 84 ft., 2x 45's, 4x 90's, unknown underground configuration
** From skimmer2 through and including manifold - est. 36 ft., 2x 45's, 4x 90's, unknown underground configuration
** From main drain through and including manifold - est. 45 ft., 2x 45's, 2x 90's, unknown underground configuration
** From manifold to pump - 2x 90's
Pressure side
** From pump to filter - 1x 90
** Filter - Tagelus TA-60, 24", zeolite media
** From filter through and including heater bypass - 4x 90's
** From heater bypass to heat pump and then back to and through heater bypass - 3x 90's, 4x 45's, approximately 30 feet to heat pump and back
** From heater bypass to (but not including) manifold - 1x 90, Jandy check valve, unused Nature2 cartridge holder, Rainbow chlorinator
** From manifold to returns - Single 1.5 inch pipe, 4x 90's, unknown underground configuration, splits underground to two returns with 3/4" eyeballs
** From manifold to water feature - at least 5x 90's (valve usually only partly open)
Backpressure readings (High speed / low speed, water feature turned off)
** Filter set to waste - 8-9 lbs / na
** Filter set to rinse - 14-15 lbs / na
** Filter set to backwash - 15-16 lbs / na
** Filter set to recirculate and heat pump bypassed - 17.5 lbs / 3.5 lbs
** Filter set to filter and heat pump bypassed - 20 lbs / 4.5 lbs (normal winter operation)
** Filter set to recirculate and heat pump in circuit - 22.5 lbs / 5.5 lbs
** Filter set to filter and heat pump in circuit - 23 lbs / 5.5 lbs (normal spring/summer/fall operation)
** No change in backpressure with flapper in Jandy check valve removed
I probably need to replace the pump or pump motor, but is there any chance that increasing the size of the 60 ft. of piping from the heater bypass to the heat pump to 2 inches would yield robust filtering performance and a functioning water feature with the existing pump running at low speed? As noted above, the cholorinator performance was marginal in summer before the heater was added.
To recap:
** I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could calculate the total head of my system so that I can correctly size a replacement pump or pump motor.
** I would appreciate any thoughts and recommendations on my options (or options that I haven't thought of).
My sincere thanks in advance.