The Algae Wars Continue - - -

[tenndoc]

Top of the Morning Everyone -

Yes, the war continues but battles are being one for the home team thanks to the BBB method of better swimming through simple chemistry!

Of course I have additional questions (surprise):

From use of another product I have algae laying around the bottom of the deep end of the pool. As is referenced in another thread, I having issues with my pump drawing as it should, so vacuuming to waste is a slow process. From other threads I know I need to brush down the walls while I wage this war - should I also stir the bottom? Logic would seem to dictate to stir it up so the chlorine can do its job.

On my last visit to the pool store (prior to my new found favorite forum) I was sold almost $120 worth of chem's to fix the problem with my water and algae. I have now in my possession for four tubs of Alkalinity Up and a quart bottle of a super duper algae killer. Their policy is, of course, no refunds so my intention is to swap what I have for something else. Which brings me to my next question - swap for what? Chlorine pucks? Our system has an automatic chlorinator. I've read on here that we'll still need to buy stabilizer so how much of that should we need for a season and does it have a short shelf life?

And finally (at least for now) I've read here where some folks aren't closing their pools during the winter but running the pump during freezing weather. Same thing the guy at the pool store had brought up. We're in Middle Tennessee, almost half way between Nashville & Chattanooga and real close to Jack Daniel's home of Lynchburg (I know, you're jealous - right?) We can have some pretty cold winters, for the south anyway, is this still a viable option? I'd be willing to replace the pressure gauge if it meant I could keep the pool from turning into the woolly swamp in the spring!

Thanks in advance -

tenndoc

[PoolDoc]

You can lose more than a pressure gauge, if we get a really cold winter again. The risk depends on your pool's layout, however.

The killer combo is an ice storm that takes your power, followed by temps that go below 20 for several days. You MUST run your pump if you don't close.

Regardless, you want to get your algae all gone before you close, and you want to get your chemistry 'right' given that you have a concrete pool. You probably should post a full set of readings on BOTH your pool water and your tap water (FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA . . . on pool only)

[tenndoc]

Thanks Ben. That sounds like excellent advise. I'll plan on closing it again this year.

Just got my new Taylor K2006c in today so I'll get the testing done and post the results tomorrow.

You help is greatly appreciated.

doc

[tenndoc]

Finally able to get everything tested - here are the results:

Pool Water - FC 2, CC 0, pH 7.0, TA 50, CH 120, CYA 0

House Water - FC 2, CC 0, pH <7.0, TA 60, CH 60

Up until the last gully washer the pool water was clear with algae laying on the bottom. We are vacuuming it to waste.
BTW, after finding this forum, last week using guess strips I added bleach until the guess strip showed 'red'. The last guess strip test was on the 13th with a best guess of 9. I stopped with the bleach because the water had cleared up and I had ordered the Taylor K2006C kit.

After the rains of the last couple of days the water is a little cloudy but nothing like it was with algae. Looks like another win for bleach so far in our war.

Thanks in advance -

doc

[tenndoc]

I know everyone is busy so this is what I got from the pool calculator -

With a goal of FC = 10 I need 4 gal of bleach
for a pH of 7.5 I need 2 boxes of borax
and for a TA of 100 I need to add 26 lbs of baking soda

It also shows I need 12 lbs of stabilizer and 47 lbs of calcium chloride.

I'm still dealing with algae and the water cloudy after the rains.

Good start of bleach, borax & baking soda?

Thanks -

doc

[tenndoc]

Wal-Mart was a little short on supplies so I was only able to get 8 lbs of baking soda. I've added it along with 2 boxes of borax and 2.84 gal of bleach. I'll add the rest of the bleach tonight after work and look for more baking soda.

Thanks -

doc

[tenndoc]

And So It Goes - -

After testing today -

FC 9, pH >8 (slightly redder), CC 1.5, TA 80, CH 110, CYA approx. 15

According to http://www.poolcalculator.com/ I should add 5 gal of bleach to take the FC on up to 19, 3 qts 1 cup of Muriatic Acid, 11 lbs of baking soda, 50 lbs of Calcium Chloride, 7 lbs 8 oz of stabilizer.

Waters still cloudy with algae ( I lost ground during the rains) so I'll add the bleach tonight. Should I follow the recommendations from http://www.poolcalculator.com/ with the other stuff.

Thanks -

doc

[BigDave]

I would avoid changing your TA just now, 80 is OK - so hold off on the Baking Soda. pH greater than 8 needs to be brought down a bit but don't use more than half the amount of acid you've calculated - put some in, let it mix for and hour or two and retest. It is quite difficult to calculate pH change.

CYA takes several days to show up in the test - how much did you add and when? If it was in the last few days, wait a few more days and retest before addding more.

Have you considered chlorinating by broadcasting Calcium Hypochlorite on the pool? This will provide chlorine and calcium at the same time.

Don't throw the Baking Soda and Calcium Chloride in together - you could make a big cloud.

[tenndoc]

Thanks BigDave -

All I've done so far is bleach, borax & baking soda. This is my first attempt at the BBB method. Where do I go to get the calcium hypochlorite?

I'll add the bleach & muriatic acid tonight after work.

Thanks again for your advice -

doc

[BigDave]

If you haven't yet, be sure to read Using Muriatic Acid to Safely Lower Your Pool's pH (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?13111) before using the acid.

Calcium Hypochlorite is a pool store chemical but has been recently been mixed with copper and other stuff you don't want in your pool. Ben recommended this: In The Swim Cal-Chlor Pool Chlorine Granules 50 lbs. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002WKS6D4/poolbooks) available at Amazon earlier this season to another poster - it's not adulterated.

If you do decide to use Cal-Hypo, DO NOT let it come in contact with other pool chems or flamable liquids - Goes Boom.

[tenndoc]

OK. I've got some from Wal-Mart but it has copper so I've not used it, only bleach.

Thanks for the heads up on using acids. I've used different acids at work and its all about paying close attention and using the proper ppe.

So I'll bring the pH down using half of the previously noted amount and raise the FC levels with bleach to continue the war. Do I take care of the algae and then worry about the other chemicals?

Thanks for your help BigDave -

[BigDave]

You've got it!
1) pH over 8 needs to be fixed.
2) Chlorine kills algae.
2) ...
2) ...
2) algae dead
3) adjust calcium to protect concrete

[tenndoc]

Last night I added 5.68 gal. of bleach and this morning I had the following results:

pH looks to be a solid 8, FC 11, CC 2

The water is cloudy and still has the 'algae' look to it. I expected almost 6 gals of bleach to give me more than a 2 point bump in FC so I it looks as though the war continues.

Something is using up the chlorine and as cool as it's gotten around here no one is swimming. I'll go with the algae losing the battle.

I'll test again in the morning and hit 'em again.

This is a 'take no prisoners' kind of war -

Thanks -

[aylad]

This is a 'take no prisoners' kind of war -

-

You've got the right attitude :) At least with the water temps getting cooler, it should slow your chlorine consumption a little more. Keep at it!

[unklebuk]

Believe me i know how frustrating it is fighting algae..I'm just about finished with the algae issue I've dealt with for the last 5 months, clean outs, tons of chlorine ( bleach) and DTE. My pool filter is an ancient ( 40 years old) Anthony Pool system, for a 35k gallon, 35ft long by 15ft wide pool, alot of work. I tested the pool this morning and I'm a little concerned with the results.....help.

ph-7.8
chlorine-1.0
alk-180
cy-150
Th-100

[tenndoc]

Am I not using enough bleach? The most I've been able to raise the FC is to 11. It drops to 8 so I know I'm still killing algae. I add 5.84 with a goal of 19 FC starting at 11 and I still have cloudy water!

No one has used the pool in 3 to 4 wks. so I'm considering raising the CH (it's 110 now) closing the pool and opening it up early next year.

Thoughts or suggestions are appreciated -

Thanks -

doc

[aylad]

unklebuk--The result that would concern me the most is the chlorine level of 1 ppm being WAYYYY too low for a CYA of 150. For a CYA that high, you should be keeping your chlorine between 8-15 ppm at ALL times, otherwise you're inviting the algae back.

What is concerning you? Also, if you would please start a new thread instead of adding into the bottom of this one if you're needing help, it would help keep things easier. You would get more views and responses, and it will be easier to keep the two pools and their respective problems straight....

Thanks!

[aylad]

tenndoc, what is your current CYA level? A FC of 11 is not high enough for algae killing--it will need to go higher, but earlier in this thread I saw that you had added some CYA and your current level will tell you how much chlorine you need. Also keep in mind that the algae, live and dead, in the water is what makes it cloudy. You need to have your filter running 24/7 and backwash it when the pressure rises 6-8 psi over the "clean" pressure. Do you notice a rise in your pressure gauge?

[tenndoc]

Thanks aylad,

I'm at work now so it'll be tomorrow before I can post those numbers.

My frustration comes from adding almost 6 gal of bleach and not getting a FC level near 20. I've got some dichlor (sp) from Wal-Mart but its got .63% copper so I haven't used it.

According to poolcalclator.com 6 gal of bleach should have given me a FC level of 19 on a 36,000 gal pool. How much is too much bleach to add at once? I would like to get this resolved so I can get it covered before it gets full of leaves.

Thanks for your help, I'm just getting frustrated with these results. I'm probably not hitting it hard enough to do the job . Early this summer the pool place tried to tell us we had some kind of chlorine eating algae. We've battled this problem all summer and.I'm willing to use this method I really need to see some results though.

Sorry, nothing like a rambling post to really confuse things.

[aylad]

LOL, all algae eats chlorine :) I suspect you're just not getting the chlorine levels high enough and not sustaining them. Post up your CYA level when you get a chance and we'll see.

[tenndoc]

At Last - - - (with respects to Etta James of course!)

FC 18.5!
CC .5
pH 7.8
TA 110
CH 120
CYA 20

To get FC to this level I added another 8.04 gals of bleach last night around mid-night. Finally something like I would expect!

And I have to go along with you aylad, I haven't had the FC levels high enough to really do the job.

Thoughts and/or ideas on my next plan of attack?

I'm really looking forward to getting the cover on it this year I'm sad to say.

Thanks -

doc

[tenndoc]

And so it Goes - - -

Today at 1:00 p this was my results -

FC 13.5
CC 1
pH 7.4
TA 100
CH 110

Tonight after work (about mid-night) I'll add another 5+ gal of bleach. http://www.poolcalculator.com/ advises to add a box and 1/2 of borax to take the pH back to 7.8.

The pool looks a lot better! It's still cloudy but at least it's not green! There is still algae laying on the bottom I'm working to get out.

And so it goes -

Thanks -

doc

[tenndoc]

Second Verse Same As the First (Almost) -

Today @ 10:40 a -

pH 7.4
FC 16
CC 0
TA 90
CH 120

Cloudiness is getting better! Tonight I'll add another 4.26 gal of bleach and 3 boxes of borax. That should keep the FC in the `shock range` and bring the pH back up to 7.8 or there abouts.

I'd appreciate it is someone would holler back if those are not the correct steps to take -

Thanks -

doc

[aylad]

You're doing fine--now it's just a matter of maintaining that shock level over 12-15 ppm until you're no longer losing chlorine overnight. Keep the filter running as much as possible, preferably 24/7, to clear out the dead algae that's causing the cloudiness. Watch your pressure, and backwash the filter when it gets to 6-8 psi over "clean". If you don't notice your filter pressure rising, then you might try the DE trick that my co-mods use on their sand filters, where you put a cupful of DE in through the skimmer (just enough to raise your filter pressure by 1 psi) to help coat the sand and help it filter out smaller particles. You've got the right idea--now it's just going to take some persistence, some time, and some bleach :)

[tenndoc]

Thanks aylad,

Good to know I'm on the right track!

As I've discussed in another thread, I've been having trouble with my system not drawing as it should. I may have found part of the problem today. It's drawing some better for now.

I really appreciate your words of encouragement. From all I've read here I thought things were going as they should but its nice to have some conformation.

Thanks -

doc

[tenndoc]

I am happy to say "These wars are almost complete!"

pH yesterday 7.4 today 7.4
FC yesterday 15.5 today 15.5
CC " 0 " 0
TA " 100 " 100
CH " 150 " 150
CYA " 25 " Not Ck'd

Are there suggestions as to where to take the numbers for closing? I still have a very little bit of algae laying around on the bottom so I'll get all it out before closing.

Thanks -

You folks have been great!

doc

[aylad]

Get the algae completely out before closing--if you don't, then you stand a much greater chance of it biodegrading your CYA into ammonia over the winter, and then you have to fight the "ammonia chlorine demand" monster when opening. Once it's completely out, then I suggest that you get the pH in the 7.6-7.8 range. The TA, CH, and CYA will be fine as is. Some folks then will add a dose of polyquat, allow it to circulate for a day or so, then shock the pool before covering, and some skip the polyquat and just shock before covering it up. I don't close my pool, so that part is up to you--the important thing is to make sure that you don't close it with algae in it, if you can help it. Also, the colder the water when closing and re-opening, the less chance you are of algae in the water. If you wait until the water warms up, then you'll have algae wars Part II to contend with...

[tenndoc]

Thank you aylad. I'm still not able to get the pump to draw as well as it should or I would have had it cleaned out weeks ago! I'll keep at it until all traces are gone.

Thanks again for your help -