brown water AGAIN

[retyler]

Hello,

We are having a very hard time with our new pool. The specifics are below.
This pool is inside a conservatory, fiber glass walls and roof, block walls to 3' and concrete floor.

We installed the pool two weeks ago and put in a salt filter, filling it with well water as that's all we have. We put in After we put in 80 lbs pool salt we began getting a green tint. We kept filter running 24/7 with the sw working for 4/6 hours every day. The water began to clear a bit, but tests still showed no chlorine. We added another 40 pounds of salt ( SW system info said 110 lbs needed at start up). Still green. Added a gallon (actually 3 qts, 36 oz) of WM household bleach and left the pool covered while we were away for the weekend with filter running 24/7. When we got home after the weekend and pulled back the cover the whole thing was the colour of tea. Clear, but dark. tested the chlorine and it was dark yellow almost orange. Added another "gallon" of bleach. The next day the water was the colour of coffee but still clear. We vacuumed, vacuumed and stirred up everything. Chlorine read orange.

Decided this was gross, so we siphoned the darn thing, cleaned it and refilled. Day one clear. Day two added the first bag of salt. Day 3 a faint greenish tinge, added the second bag of salt. Day four the pool was definitely turning green. Added the final bag of salt and the water began getting brown again. It's midway between green tea and black tea. Chlorine barely registers the palest pink on the test kit / Ph is 7.

What to do? I filled out the pool chart but the info is below as well

15' x 48" Intex AGP 4440 gals with Intex Krystal Clear Model 637R Filter Pump and a Krystal Clear Saltwater System Model cs8110 Unicel A/C filter cartridge Taylor K2006 test kit

[PoolDoc]

When we got home after the weekend and pulled back the cover the whole thing was the colour of tea. Clear, but dark.

No orange tint? That coffee color is pretty specific for oxidized manganese in water. Do you have a softener or 'greensand' filter on your house water? Did you fill your pool with THAT water, or with water BEFORE the softener/greensand, etc.

Dealing with iron is fairly difficult; dealing with manganese is harder.

Do this:

1. Drain the pool.
2. Do the metals bucket test. http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16946
3. Figure out what you've got, and let us help you make a plan.
4. Refill the pool ONLY after you have a plan AND all the pieces you need.
5. Do NOT add salt or turn on the SWCG till you have the pool 100% cleaned up and ready to go, operating manually!

[retyler]

Thank you so much for your reply.
No softener in the water system. The orange was only on chlorine test after we had added the second gallon of bleach. Water went clear, greeinsh tint , greenish, green, tea coloured, coffee coloured.

[retyler]

Okay, we'll do that and let you know on Wednesday after we get the pool filled again. (Takes a couple of days to fill)

[PoolDoc]

You're missing it.

Do NOT refill the pool till you have ID'd the problem, made a plan, AND gotten the bits you'll need. Otherwise, you'll just restart the cycle you're in now.

If you do have manganese, it will NOT be that simple to deal with successfully. I hope it's just iron.

[retyler]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I'll begin the "bucket test" today, pool already draining.

[retyler]

Bucket test water from the well turned brown after adding Clorox. I filled a bucket with water from the well tap 3 days ago, it turned brown just sitting after a day. Water is clear but brown. When we drained the pool the last bit of water had to wait till we got back from an out of town business trip. The water was clear and there were small brown patches that gathered together. When we swept the water toward the vacuum hose the brown patches would mix back into the water making it brown again. A professor at NCSU (our local university) tells us they have had many problems with iron in water this summer. Is this possibly the cause?

[PoolDoc]

Pool photos

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Un-_PUcOKVA/UFD49ezUjlI/AAAAAAAAEQw/AL9JqGlw0ZM/s640/web%25201.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dp8piAw1DIA/UFD49eCZQZI/AAAAAAAAERA/im0F6Rcf3gk/s640/web%25204.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3o8mjZSHZZo/UFD49UThRtI/AAAAAAAAEQs/q6nBaEfDapg/s640/web%25203.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UiwtjOEIqGg/UFD49icQJHI/AAAAAAAAEQ8/urjcDVsCfy4/s640/web%25205.jpg


Bucket test:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mXYHkkJ94F8/UFD49hW7g1I/AAAAAAAAEQ4/J_82m_4rDN8/s640/web%25206.jpg

[PoolDoc]

The colors that are showing up look in between iron and manganese, but it's possible you have some of both. Of course, it also could be camera color error.

+ In the picture of the clumped iron, did those clumps wash or brush away easily?
+ Do you have a pole, vacuum head and hose?
+ Has the iron or whatever in the bucket test settled out? If so, how long did it take?

I'm thinking you may be able to add polyquat, settle the iron, and the vac to waste, or even to filter, if you have several extra filters, and are prepared to clean them properly.

[retyler]

Thank you. Colour appears to be the same in the photo.

To answer your questions;
+The clumps will reintegrate with the water if disturbed. Water turns brown again.
+Yes, we have pole, vacuum head and hose.
+In the bucket test the iron or whatever is forming "small clumps" but is still hanging suspended in the water has not settled to the bottom.

We have 4 filters that we rotate changing every 24 hours. The last one we took out after the coffee coloured water is stained beige, but clean.
The second (clear) bucket is a bucket test we are doing from one of our other wells. It is still clear after two days, so I we have begun to fill the pool
with water from this well as it takes much longer to fill than from the other "big" well. The ph is lower in the water from the small well but the calcium
and the alkalinity #'s are much lower. We are hoping this will prove to be an easier way to go.

[PoolDoc]

1. Use polyquat initially, instead of chlorine (info, below). It will keep your pool from turning green, and will help filter the iron, etc. Once the pool is full, add very small doses of chlorine, gradually raising the chlorine level.

2. Make sure you are cleaning your cartridges properly. Links and info below.

Ben
==============================

+ Chlorine is the strongest algaecide you can buy . . . but occasionally, you may need a different one. Almost the only alternative algaecide we recommend is polyquat (http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/polyquat.html) -- poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] . This product is a GOOD clarifier and a moderately good algaecide, with almost no bad side effects. We often recommend it for use when you are going on vacation, or when you need to lower your chlorine, to prevent remove stains. It has become quite difficult to purchase locally at the normal full strength 60% concentration. If you find it locally, at a 60% concentration, that's fine. But be SURE to check the chemical name. If you need to buy it online, here's an Amazon link:
Kem-Tek 311-6 Pool and Spa 60-Percent Concentrated Algaecide, 1 Quart (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI0Y/poolbooks)

+ The OEM cartridges in Intex / Summer Escapes / etc. filters are not high quality. The Intex manuals recommend replacing them completely every 2 weeks. A BETTER option is to replace them permanently with 2 - 3 Unicel cartridges, and rotating them through a cleaning solution. Properly maintained, the Unicel cartridges will last all season AND will filter better. So even though they cost more per cartridge, they cost less per season! Learn to maintain them, by reading this post, Cleaning-your-Cartridge-Filter-wiithout-Damaging-It! (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?18044)

But, purchasing them is tricky. Amazon does not consistently stock them, and some of the 3rd party sellers are charging high prices and/or high shipping. So, check the Amazon link, but watch out for the prices and shipping costs.

It would be nice if you could just buy them elsewhere, but many of the online pool stores are listing Pleatco or other Asian made low quality filters, as "Unicel C-4607 type" or "fits Unicel C-4607". So shop carefully!

Here are the Amazon links:


Unicel C-4607 Replacement Filter Cartridge (Easy Set Size A or C) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BNPRC2/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Unicel C-5315 Replacement Filter Cartridge for 15 Square Foot Intex B Filter (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0039X2XZK/poolbooks) @ Amazon

[retyler]

Thanks so much Ben for all your information. You are a winner for sure! I will get the polyquat (we've already gotten the filters from Amazon).
I have been trying to read all the posts about caring for indoor pools, but there is much to absorb. Especially for brains that are not quite a flexible as they once were.
be well,

[PoolDoc]

Please let us know how it goes. I'm trying to learn more about how to help people manage pools filled with well water, but often we don't here how things end up.

[retyler]

I certainly will let you know how things go. I get the feeling we will need to subscribe to the forum as I feel many questions coming up. Dick ordered his birthday present solar heater today after spending several days on the computer and with the WW Grainger catalogue. I foresee many questions down the road as we learn how to manage an indoor pool.
Thanks again, your help in invaluable.

[retyler]

Good Morning,
Water in both pool and the bucket test from this well are still "crystal" clear. As the pool is almost full now, I've another question. I understand about adding the polyquat before the chlorine, but should we add the polyquat before we begin adding the salt?

[PoolDoc]

I would.

The polyquat will prevent algae, and will help your filters trap any metals that do begin to precipitate. Also, I would NOT turn your SWCG on until you have MANUALLY brought your chlorine up to good levels.

[retyler]

Okay. I will add polyquat, then begin dosing with bleach and bringing the ph up (it's in the 6.5/6.8 range) before I add salt and turn on the salt system. I did seem that adding salt raised the ph before, but that was with the other well water. BTW 5 days in the bucket tests for both wells show the small well water still clear and the big well water still brown with splotches of brown beginning to coagulate along the sides of the bucket and on the bottom.