Blue green film to water? Could use some help quickly, please?

[Midnight]

New pool owner, just bought a house with an AG 15' x 30' pool.

Haven't been able to use it much after a big leak and patch problem. This morning my husband and I went to check on the pool so we could start up the never been used gas heater after a few chilly days so the kids can swim. We discovered the water is slightly cloudy and there is a light blueish greenish film on the water. My husband, who is the only one with pool experience but it was when he was a teen helping his parents, thinks it's from the alkalinity powder he put in the day before. We've never had this happen, the only things that are different are; the alkalinity powder, and we had hooked the gas heater up to test it out for the first time the day before, ran it for about 2 minutes, then turned it off since it was evening and we didn't want to lose the heat.

Originally, we discovered there might have been copper in the water, as the first time I went swimming my hair turned green. The previous owner had been using a Nature 2, which he explained as a wonderful device, and after my hair turned green I went online and discovered is not. LOL. We didn't hook up the Nature 2 when we opened the pool for the summer and due to a hole in the liner just two weeks ago, we ended up losing almost all of the water and refilling. The water was down to about a foot of water and we refilled. I was hoping that would take care of the copper problem as an added benefit.

We do have a chlorinator attached. (The second item we thought was some wonderful upgrade and we're starting to think isn't). On top of the blue green film, which is new, we have not been able to get the water right! I don't know why we're having such problems getting this pool running smoothly. I am getting so frustrated.

Is the light blueish greenish film from the alkalinity powder and will it harm the heater that I now have had running for about an hour? I have questions about the water quality, but I think I have to post those in another forum.

[Midnight]

New to pool ownership, bought a house with a 15' x 30' AG vinyl pool a few weeks ago. Having some problems with the water. We only have the HTH 6 way test strips, we don’t have a better test kit yet.

The water is testing as follows:
Free Chlorine: 0
pH: 6.4 (it looks slightly lighter than the shade for 6.4)
Total Alkalinity: 40
Total Hardness: Between 100 – 200
CYA: 0

My husband keeps adding chlorine, and it disappears. The pH has been difficult to balance. He added Alkalinity powder a day and a half ago. The water is slightly cloudy now, and there was a very small amount of an oily looking film on the surface of the water. The film seems to have disappeared now, when I touched it with the skimmer basket lid, it was light blueish greenish in color and washed easily away with a splash of water.

I’m sorry to repeat any of this, just want to give as much information as I can. The pool had a Nature 2 system, that we originally thought was an impressive upgrade according to the previous owner, but after my hair turned green the first time I was in the pool, I read online that it is not something we want to use. Luckily, we hadn’t hooked it up when we opened the pool a few weeks ago .

There is a chlorinator attached to the system, which doesn’t seem to be doing much to help. My husband just put chlorine tabs in the skimmer basket two nights ago because the chlorine keeps disappearing from the water.

The pool liner had a tear just a few weeks ago. We had only been in the pool maybe 5 or 6 times because we were so busy painting and the weather was stormy. After the hole in the liner turned into a big hole when we tried to patch it, we lost most of the water and rented a sump pump to try to refill the sand lost under the hole in the floor of the liner. We drained down to about a foot of water. We were hoping that replacing that much water would fix the copper issue from the previous owner using the Nature 2 as well.

My husband is the only one with any pool experience, he had a big hand in the maintenance of his parents’ pool when he was a teen. I am trying to learn now by reading the forums.

There is a gas heater that we just hooked up to the filter system about a week and a half ago. We turned it on for the first time two nights ago to make sure it worked. We only ran it for a few minutes because it was a cool evening and I didn’t want to lose the heat overnight. I turned the heater on this morning for the first time and ran it for about an hour, tested the water and came in to read what the film on the water could be from. My husband thought it was just from the alkalinity powder he had added.

When I read that the low pH can ruin the heater, I turned the heater off and added Low pH from the pool store. There was only about ¼ of the bottle and the instructions on the back say I’ll need more. Can I add baking soda? I’ll go test again to see what the pH is now. I wanted to get the pH up a bit, then correct the alkalinity so that the heater wouldn’t get ruined. We’d like to start using BBB, but we’ve been so busy with all the problems that have popped up, I haven’t had time to read how to do that yet! I’m afraid the heater is going to end up ruined. Would running the filter with the heater attached but not turned on for about a week and a half with shoddy pH readings ruin it? My husband wasn’t aware of how it could damage the heater and I feel like we've been so busy trying to get it all straight. I posted earlier in the Dealing with Stains & Metals forum, but I think I put it in the wrong place. Since I'm new, I still have to wait for my posts to show up but I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

-Heather

========================================== merging posts


Just tested again with the HTH 6 Way test strips:

Free Chlorine: Between 0/0 and 1/2
pH: 6.4
Total Alkalinity: around 80
Total Hardness: Between 100 - 200, closer to 200 color.
CYA: 0

-Heather

[PoolDoc]

Gotta leave in few minutes, so let me give you some stuff to get you started.

1. Blue-green colors in pools are almost always from copper. Mostly likely your low pH has dissolved some of your copper.

2. When you have high copper, high pH OR high chlorine can cause the copper to stain your pool.

3. The 'alkalinity powder' probably caused some of the copper to come out.

Do ALL these things:

1. Adjust your pH to 7.0 - 7.2. If you need to raise your pH, use borax and NOT any other chemical!
2. Keep your chlorine fairly low, and do NOT add a large dose all at once.
3. Run your filter 24/7.
4. Buy some HEDP (to keep the copper dissolved) and some polyquat (to keep algae out while the chlorine is low).
5. Get a good testkit ASAP.
6. Complete the Pool Chart

Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)

Info for the other steps, below.

Ben

================================================== ==


+ Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) / phenol test kit, or if available at YOUR Walmart (check availability (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668)), get the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit, which is compatible with the Taylor K2006. Test the pool as soon and you can, and post the results. If you get the 6-way kit, ALSO test the water you FILL the pool with, especially if it's a well, and post THOSE results as well. (The HTH is the best available kit you're likely to find locally, but it's not the K-2006. It can only provide rough measurements chlorine levels above 5 ppm, and it measures "TOTAL" hardness, rather than "CALCIUM" hardness, which is not ideal.)

+ Having a good test kit makes pool care easier for EVERYONE, but is an ESSENTIAL tool for pools with problems. A good test kit means a kit that can test chlorine from 0 - 25 ppm, pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, and stabilizer with reasonable accuracy. Test strips (AKA 'guess-strips' ) do NOT meet this standard. Some pool store testing is accurate; most is not. The ONLY way you'll know whether your pool store is accurate or bogus, is by testing accurately your own self. On the other hand, pool store 'computer' dosing recommendations are NEVER trustworthy -- ignore them. They are designed to sell more chemicals than you need, and WILL cause many pool problems.

+ We recommend the Taylor K-2006 test kit, which meets the requirements above, for many reasons. The HTH 6-way drops kit is a great starter kit, and is compatible with the K2006 (it's made by Taylor). There are a few alternatives; for example Lamotte makes an FAS-DPD kit that's OK -- but it costs 3x as much. But, we're not aware of any test that is better, and since we are all familiar with the K-2006 (and can help you with it) we recommend it exclusively ( Test kit info page (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16551) )

One caution for the 2012 season: Amazon does not stock the kits directly. So when buying at Amazon, Amato is our current preferred seller. However, they often don't list enough stock to last the whole day, so try order mid-morning. You should expect a delivered cost under $60 for the K2006A and under $95 for the K2006C. If you can't find that, wait a day.

+ Here are links to the kits we recommend (you can check local availability on the HTH kit, using the Walmart link):

HTH 6-Way Test Kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668) @ Walmart
Taylor K2006A (3/4 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIIG/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Taylor K2006C (2 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIJ0/poolbooks) @ Amazon


+ Borax => 20 Mule Team Borax (http://www.walmart.com/ip/11027366) from Walmart or elsewhere

+ Chlorine is the strongest algaecide you can buy . . . but occasionally, you may need a different one. Almost the only alternative algaecide we recommend is polyquat (http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/polyquat.html) -- poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] . This product is a GOOD clarifier and a moderately good algaecide, with almost no bad side effects. We often recommend it for use when you are going on vacation, or when you need to lower your chlorine, to prevent remove stains. It has become quite difficult to purchase locally at the normal full strength 60% concentration. If you find it locally, at a 60% concentration, that's fine. But be SURE to check the chemical name. If you need to buy it online, here's an Amazon link:
Kem-Tek 311-6 Pool and Spa 60-Percent Concentrated Algaecide, 1 Quart (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI0Y/poolbooks)

+ HEDP =>
Jack's Magic Blue Stuff (20% solution)
Jack's Magic Purple Stuff (20% solution)
Jack's Magic Pink Stuff (60% solution)
ProTeam Metal Magic (30% solution)
RamChem Ram Metal Hold ((60% solution? )
Kem-Tek 338-6 Metal & Calcium Eliminator (20% solution)
Haviland Stain & Scale Magic (30% solution? )

Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003MYEU3E/poolbooks) @ Amazon
20% KemTek HEDP (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI22/poolbooks) @ Amazon

[PoolDoc]

I'm merging these, and moving them to your OTHER thread on the same set of issues.

[jwhouse]

The first thing that anyone is going to want is some reliable test results. You say that you don't have a reliable test kit "yet" so hopefully you have ordered the Taylor K2006. It will make your life so much easier with maintaining your pool.
With that said, if the results are anywhere close to being correct, there are several issues at hand. Low Chlorine, Low PH and low CYA.

I'm no expert but I can say that getting chlorine in your pool and raising your ph are going to be your first steps. Bleach and Borax is the way to go. Bleach will add chlorine and the borax will increase your PH. If you're using trichlor tabs then you are getting CYA but it takes a while for that to show up. Just keep chlorine in your pool to prevent an algae outbreak and get a set of reliable test results from a drop based test kit.
Hopefully someone with much more knowledge will chime in and give you some specifics on the steps you need to take and the dosages.

Welcome to the Forum!

[Midnight]

Thanks for the info. I'll be going to get the Borax in a bit. The chlorine is low, it is barely registering. The test strips I'm using are the HTH 6 way test strips. I see you mentioned guess strips aren't good enough to use, but then recommended the strips I have? I haven't ordered the Taylor testing kit yet but was intending to get it. Are these okay until I order the better testing kit? I did test with the HTH 6 Way test kit and posted the results in my original post.

The film is completely gone from the water. Now there's just the faintest little oil spots on top of the water in the skimmer basket. The rest of the pool looks completely back to normal on top. The water is still a little bit cloudy and the pH is still low. The TA seems to be increasing? One thing I'm wondering, could a week and a half of irregular and low pH ruin a gas heater that we haven't turned on at all? It was hooked up about a week and half ago, but wasn't turned on until today. I only ran it for about an hour before I turned it off. It was turned on a day and a half ago to test it for a few minutes.

Sorry for the double post. I wasn't sure which forum to post in and the second post was much more informative. It's a bit confusing posting the right way at first. Thanks for the merge.

-Heather
==========================================

Oh gosh, now I'm a little confused. I posted results with the HTH 6 Way test strips. But what I need is the HTH 6 Way DROPS kit, two different things, right? I'd rather go with the Taylor kit. It will take a little while to order one of those and get it, I'm hoping the kit I have will work for now so I can try to correct this right away.

-Heather

[Midnight]

All of the local stores were out of Borax, so we had to get pH Up from Walmart. I also got the HTH 6 Way Drop kit. The results were very confusing. The free Chlorine that was reading at 0/0 but slowly creeping up to 1/1 seemed to be reading high with the HTH drop kit. The pH and Chlorine/Bromine tester showed the pH low, lighter than the lowest color. The Chlorine/Bromine, though, looked like the brightest yellow? That was pre- pH Up. Also, the CYA on the test strips was showing 0, the CYA with the drop kit seemed to read between 90 - 100 ppm. I did it twice. I do understand the test strips aren't accurate, though.

Added the pH Up about an hour and a half ago and just retested:
Cl/Br: 5/10
pH: 7.2 (just slighty lighter if at all)
TA: 120
TH: 220
CYA: Didn't retest

The values seem to have really changed. I didn't add anything else except the pH Up. I did add the entire 5 lb. container and didn't think it would be enough according to the directions on the back. I'm confused about the Chlorine/Bromine. I'm not sure how the chlorine increased so much. We did put a few chlorine tablets in the skimmer basket last night, but I took them out this morning when I realized the water needed corrected. I'm going to see if my husband can find some Borax tonight and add more to get the pH up.

-Heather

======================================

Ah, turns out the chlorinator that is attached has been running and opened up full throttle all day. My husband did that this morning to because of the lack of chlorine. So the mystery of the increasing chlorine is solved. LOL. None of my posts are showing up, but hopefully they will start popping up in the morning. Still can't find a place with borax and the numbers don't seem high enough yet for the pH. But I'll test again in the morning with the new drop test kit.

[PoolDoc]

You don't need borax, right now, but when you do, your IP address suggests these Walmart stores may be fairly close to you, and they have borax in stock currently:
(deleted - BMP)

Just to check on your CYA reading: if you have a CYA of 100 ppm, the pool water + R0013 reagent mix would have become quite cloudy after 30 seconds or so. Is that what happened?

Is it really important to you to avoid blue-green or gray stains on your pool? If so, you need to get some HEDP right away, and you'll probably ALSO want to get a CuLator pack. (Links below).

Ben

==============================================

The CuLator product is a special patented plastic material, contained in a bag that goes into the skimmer, that can slowly take metals OUT of your pool water. We think it works, and have some evidence that it does, but not proof yet. (Not likely to be available locally.)

1 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003C5PNUW/poolbooks) @ Amazon
1.5 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004Y6RK3Q/poolbooks) sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
4 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B007AHDMTM/poolbooks) sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004XUIRQW/poolbooks) @ Amazon (to protect CuLator from being damaged by scum)


Using polyquat during metal clean up accomplishes two things: it helps kill or prevent algae, letting you run lower chlorine levels, and it is a very good clarifier, that helps you filter out any small metal particles that may form.(Probably available from pool stores, and possibly some big box stores -- but you MUST learn to ID it correctly. See the polyquat page (http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/polyquat.html) for more info.)

Kem-Tek 60% polyquat (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI0Y/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Nava 60% polyquat (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004BFV4EQ/poolbooks) @ Amazon


HEDP is a dissolved phosphonate product that is pretty chlorine stable, and very good at keeping dissolved metals IN the water, instead of ON your pool surfaces. It can lift recent stains, OR it can be used along with ascorbic acid, to keep the metals in the water, after the ascorbic acid is consumed by chlorine.

Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003MYEU3E/poolbooks) @ Amazon
20% KemTek HEDP (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI22/poolbooks) @ Amazon

[Midnight]

Thanks so much! I did check all of the local stores. My husband stopped in to a few local Walmarts and I called all of the local stores listed on the Borax retailer site. Everyone is out of stock. It's an area with many pools, maybe that's why. I use that Walmart check your store option often for many things, it's not often correct, though. LOL.

The CYA test water did become cloudy. Thank you so much for the info on the HEDP and CuLator! How long after adding those products before I should allow anyone in the pool? The weather has been bouncing between hot and chilly and rainy here, it would be nice to get to swim a bit.

-Heather

[PoolDoc]

I'll post some other options, later.

Regarding IP . . . every site that you visit has that info. It's not possible to avoid it, without looking like a hacker. I know it makes people uncomfortable, so I usually don't mention it. People would absolutely freak out if they knew the sort of info that Walmart or your credit card company have on you! The amount of detail is unbelievable -- your mother literally would not know as much! (I don't have that sort of data, but I've seen examples.)

[Midnight]

Ben, thanks so much. Yep, with an IT hubby, I'm very aware of the IP address info being accessible to admins, as well as the info available to hackers at Wally world. ;) Just not familiar with it being posted that often. As a mom, I tend to advise my kids not to post your location to people you're not famliar with online. I follow it pretty closely myself, maybe it is a dillusion, but it helps me sleep at night. ;) Thanks for the edit, greatly appreciated.

As for the pool, much has changed numbers wise in the past day. Cl/Br is still 5/10, ph 7.2, TA 120, but the CYA is well over 100. I tried the diluting it wtih tap water trick and get about 140. So from everything I'm learning so far, that explains the Cl reading. I guess all I can do is partial drain and refill. Again. The chlorine tablets that go in the chlorinator are trichlore. Since the chlorine was reading 0, I'm guessing he's been using them more to get the chlorine up. (Too many cooks in the kitchen, I suppose. LOL.). This pool is turning out to be a money eater so far this season considering we've only been able to swim a few times. I hate to do it, but maybe it's time to chuck it for the season and start over in the late spring. Thanks for the help.

-Heather

[Midnight]

On a side note, you seriously underestimate my mother. She's pretty invasive. She'd probably have the info on me AND you! ;)

-Heather