James Ma
08-10-2012, 12:09 AM
Hi Everybody!
I am a new pool owner in Ogdensburg, NY. My indoor pool is 16'x32' with 19,200 gallons of water, using Hayward EC65A DE filter. I started the pool on August 1st with the following data:
Temperature: 70 (not heated yet)
Saturation Idx: -1.4
Tot. Chlorine: 1.8
Free Chlorine: 0
pH: 6.5
Tot. Alkalinity: 70
Tot. Hardness: 155
TDS: 1125
The water was quite cloudy at the beginning. After my pool guy helped me to clean the filter, add 6LBs of DE, it became clear. My pool store advised me to add 20LBS of Balance Pack 100, 2LBS of Balance Pack 200, 8 LBS of Burn out 3 and 25OZ of Back Up. I actually added 18LBS of Balance Pack 100, 2LBS of Balance Pack 200, 8 LBS of Burn out 3. On August 7, the testing data became:
Temperature: 72 (not heated yet)
Tot. Chlorine: 10
Free Chlorine: 0
pH: 7.9
Tot. Alkalinity: 173
Tot. Hardness: 181
Saturation Idx: 0.4
TDS: 1300
My pool store recommended to add 8 LBS of Lo 'N Slo, 2LBS of Stabilizer 100, 34 LBS of Burn Out 3. From the first experience, I did not trust the recommendation. I started to teach myself from the net. First, I added about 10 OZ muriatic acid which started to bring down the PH and TA. My testing strips (Aquarius) told me it is getting better but it did not show exactly how much. I also learned that I should Breakpoint Chlorinate my pool to raise the free chlorine.
My question is:
1. Is my understanding correct?
2. How much chlorine should I use to breakpoint chlorinate my pool to get the FC to 1.5 or 2.0?
3. Should I pour the Chlorine directly into the pool?
4. Should I start to heat the pool after I get all the chemicals right?
5. What should I do according to your experience?
Thank you very much!
James
PoolDoc
08-10-2012, 01:29 PM
1. Is my understanding correct?
No. Breakpoint chlorination is based on the assumption that ammonia has been added to your pool, and is the source of the chloramines. Unless you've added Yellow OUT, Green to Clean, or another ammonia based pool product, this assumption is almost certainly wrong.
Chloramines in pools almost always result from urine (urea, creatine, creatnine), or nitrogen based pool chemicals, like some algaecides. The chemistry of oxidizing THESE compounds does NOT expose a simple breakpoint.
2. How much chlorine should I use to breakpoint chlorinate my pool to get the FC to 1.5 or 2.0?
See above. This site, and my original site, exist solely because a great deal of universally taught "pool chemistry" is completely wrong. When I started PoolSolutions in 1996, I knew that the chemistry I'd learned as a CPO, and then later taught, as a CPO instructor did not work for me. Now, over 15 years and 10,000's of pools later, I know it doesn't work for anyone.
3. Should I pour the Chlorine directly into the pool?
Assuming you mean "bleach", then the answer is, "you may".
4. Should I start to heat the pool after I get all the chemicals right?
Yes.
However you want know if you've done so, till you get and use a test kit. The BioGuard test system, based on 'guess-strips', was designed to sell chemicals, not to accurately determine what your pool needs. That's why they sold you algaecide and stabilizer for an indoor pool!
5. What should I do according to your experience?
See links and paste-ins, below. Read the muriatic acid page linked in my signature, and then lower the pH in your pool to below 7.8.
Good luck!
Ben
=========================================
+ It's much easier to answer your questions, when we have the details about your pool in one place. We often 'waste' the first few posts back and forth collecting information. So, please complete our new Pool Chart form -- it takes about 30 seconds, but will save much more than that.
Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)
+ Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) / phenol test kit, or if available at YOUR Walmart (check availability (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668)), get the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit, which is compatible with the Taylor K2006. Test the pool as soon and you can, and post the results. If you get the 6-way kit, ALSO test the water you FILL the pool with, especially if it's a well, and post THOSE results as well. (The HTH is the best available kit you're likely to find locally, but it's not the K-2006. It can only provide rough measurements chlorine levels above 5 ppm, and it measures "TOTAL" hardness, rather than "CALCIUM" hardness, which is not ideal.)
+ Having a good test kit makes pool care easier for EVERYONE, but is an ESSENTIAL tool for pools with problems. A good test kit means a kit that can test chlorine from 0 - 25 ppm, pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, and stabilizer with reasonable accuracy. Test strips (AKA 'guess-strips' ) do NOT meet this standard. Some pool store testing is accurate; most is not. The ONLY way you'll know whether your pool store is accurate or bogus, is by testing accurately your own self. On the other hand, pool store 'computer' dosing recommendations are NEVER trustworthy -- ignore them. They are designed to sell more chemicals than you need, and WILL cause many pool problems.
+ We recommend the Taylor K-2006 test kit, which meets the requirements above, for many reasons. The HTH 6-way drops kit is a great starter kit, and is compatible with the K2006 (it's made by Taylor). There are a few alternatives; for example Lamotte makes an FAS-DPD kit that's OK -- but it costs 3x as much. But, we're not aware of any test that is better, and since we are all familiar with the K-2006 (and can help you with it) we recommend it exclusively ( Test kit info page (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16551) )
One caution for the 2012 season: Amazon does not stock the kits directly. So when buying at Amazon, Amato is our current preferred seller. However, they often don't list enough stock to last the whole day, so try order mid-morning. You should expect a delivered cost under $60 for the K2006A and under $95 for the K2006C. If you can't find that, wait a day.
+ Here are links to the kits we recommend (you can check local availability on the HTH kit, using the Walmart link):
HTH 6-Way Test Kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668) @ Walmart
Taylor K2006A (3/4 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIIG/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Taylor K2006C (2 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIJ0/poolbooks) @ Amazon
James Ma
08-10-2012, 10:05 PM
Thank you so much Ben! I bought a HTH 6 way test kit as you recommended. Testing results are as follows:
Tot. Chlorine: 10
Free Chlorine: 0 (from Aquarius)
pH: 7.8
Tot. Alkalinity: 173
Tot. Hardness: 181
According to your explanation, I don't think my pool has ammonia. Therefore, breakpoint chlorination would be a bad idea. I trust you.
Now, please teach me what should I do next? Should I put one jug (96oz) of 6% bleech 96oz into the pool as suggested by the pool calculator? How can I raise my free chlorine?
Thank you again?
James
PoolDoc
08-11-2012, 05:30 PM
On August 7, the testing data became:
[indent]Temperature: 72 (not heated yet)
Tot. Chlorine: 10
Free Chlorine: 0
pH: 7.9
Tot. Alkalinity: 173
Tot. Hardness: 181
I bought a HTH 6 way test kit as you recommended. Testing results are as follows:
Tot. Chlorine: 10
Free Chlorine: 0 (from Aquarius)
pH: 7.8
Tot. Alkalinity: 173
Tot. Hardness: 181
Uh. Wow! You got IDENTICAL results, down to the nearest ppm, 3 days apart? Is this pool in a giant freezer, and you're chipping off samples?
James, the HTH 6-way drops kit does not read to the nearest ppm. What's going on?
waterbear
08-11-2012, 10:50 PM
Uh. Wow! You got IDENTICAL results, down to the nearest ppm, 3 days apart? Is this pool in a giant freezer, and you're chipping off samples?
James, the HTH 6-way drops kit does not read to the nearest ppm. What's going on?
The HTH kit also does not read FC, only total chlorine.;);)