First time Startup of 24' AGP

[PaPoolNewB]

I know it is VERY late in the season. However I just moved in about a month ago. The house was vacant for quite some time and the owner of the property did not properly take care of the pool. It has not been opened for at least 2 or 3 seasons and was not covered for winter at all. So as you can imagine the water was disgusting. Like pure sludge with a ton of debris in it. So I decided that draining it was the best way to go if I was going to ever have a chance of getting it clean. I have never owned a pool so this is all new to me and I am very glad I have found this forum. So to make a long story short I finally got it emptied, cleaned out and numerous holes in liner patched. I am on a well here so after doing Bucket Test for metal I started to fill a week ago. Been cycling to make sure I do not dry out well or burn out pump so has been a slow process.

Today it is finally up to the bottom of the skimmer so should be up to appropriate level by end of day. During the fill process I have been adding bleach following the simple intex startup post. Have a cheap 3 way test kit that is very difficult to read that according to directions has PH currently around 7.6 and the FC possibly between 1 and 2 PPM and CC seems to be the same. Have a Taylor 2006 kit on Order so hopefully that will be easier to read. I have a new Pump and Filter that I was given from a family member luckily but I know it is a bit undersized according to what I have read here. Unit is a XPUSA 16" Sand Filter with 1 HP pump that holds 110 lbs of sand. It has not been run yet but I do have it hooked up, filled with sand and ready to go hopefully as soon as water is to proper level.

Have Kem-Tek Dichlor on order set to be delivered tomorrow and currently have 6% bleach, Borax, and Baking Soda on hand. I have only been adding bleach and brushing at this point due to not being able to run filter. That will change today and that is where I am confused on what to do next. I have to figure out how to prime the pump properly and then hope I put in laterals correctly and all the fittings and hoses do not leak. According to directions I need to Backwash filter first then Rinse before setting to Filter mode. Guess I will figure all that out once the water is high enough.

So I guess what I want to know is what do I need to do once the filter is up and running today. I do not have the Dichlor yet and the Taylor Kit may not get here until almost the weekend maybe later. Should I just continue to add 1 dose of bleach every 8 hrs during day and 4 doses at night until tomorrow? Then tomorrow start the Dichlor tomorrow using the same dosage along with equal amount of borax ? How long do I need to run the pump for initially? Would like to run the pump as little as possible to conserve on electric cost in future but think at first needs to be running often. I completed the pool chart yesterday to the best of my ability but do not see it anywhere on my end. Can not seem to access my profile at all so not sure if that is where it would normally be. Just let me know if I need to do it again. Sorry for the long post and my obvious confusion. Just want to get this up and running properly and would like to use the BBB method of course. Needed to get the Dichlor for CYA purposes to start off with as it seemed like easiest way to add CYA at first for a rookie like myself.

Hope I posted enough info but let me know what else you need, thanks in advance for all your help!

[PoolDoc]

OK. Checked and entered your Pool Chart data -- your gallon figure was off. A 24' round with 54" walls would be 13,200 gallons; if you have 48" walls, it would be only 11,800 gallons. So, for now, your PF is 9.1

With a PF of 9, a gallon of bleach will be about 4.5 ppm of chlorine. If you add 1/3 in the AM and 2/3 in the late PM, you should be OK.

Once you have dichlor, adding 1/3 of a pound in the AM, and 2/3 of a pound in the PM will produce similar results, and will give you about 30 ppm of CYA after 7 days. Don't bother to test CYA, till you've added a total of about 14 pounds (~60 ppm). Do cut back on doses, once your chlorine starts 'holding'.

Run the pump 24/7 the first week, or really, until you can hold a chlorine level throughout the day.

[PaPoolNewB]

Thanks Ben,

One question though. You state pounds as the dosage. I just wanted to know how to measure that. 1/3 lb of Dichlor is how much using measuring cups(1/4, 1/3, 2/3, etc....) I tried to find online but not having much success. Thanks again!

Lou

[PaPoolNewB]

Ben,

Think I figured it out but let me know if I am incorrect. 2/3 cups would be equal to 1/3 pound and that would be the AM dose and the PM dose would be 1 1/3 cup? No idea why so flustered with this whole pool thing. Sure it will become second nature hopefully soon enough.

Lou

[PoolDoc]

Dichlor is about 1/2 lb per cup.

[PaPoolNewB]

Received Kem-Tek Chlorinating Granules yesterday from Amazon and added 2/3 cup in AM and 1 1/3cup in PM as suggested. Added 2/3 cup again this AM. Received Taylor 2006 kit this afternoon. Just completed testing. Did all tests except CYA due to it being to soon for it to register. The results are as follows:

FC - 4.5
CC - 0
PH - 7.4
ALK -100
CH - 40
CYA - N/A

Did the Chlorine Test using the 10ml sample size and all the rest with either the 44ml or 25ml sample size. Plan on adding 1 1/3 cup of the Kem-Tek tonight and testing Chlorine and PH levels again an hour later. Then getting up early and checking those levels again before sun comes up and adding AM dose. Pool water is clear currently with tiny amount of dust or possibly dead algae on bottom of pool. I have been adding Kem-Tek by broadcasting around pool and filter has been running 24/7 since installed yesterday. Can you please advise me if this is correct procedure or should I be doing something else or changing amount added to less or more. Thank you!

[PoolDoc]

Everything you're doing is fine, though it's not necessary to have the chlorine that high, when the CYA < 20 ppm. Read the Best Guess page linked in my signature, so you understand what I mean.

[PaPoolNewB]

Thank you Ben,

I understand the Chart and that with such a low CYA the FC is a bit high, but I am in process of adding the Kem-Tech Dichlor(Chlorine Granules) to get the CYA up to the amount you suggested above. I have not added any Bleach at this point in addition. So Is the higher FC just a temporary by-product of getting the CYA in the pool or do you recommend I do something else at this point. I want to get the CYA in so I can switch to just Bleach eventually. Have not added any Borax or Baking Soda yet as well. I know I can purchase just Dichlor but already have the 22.5lb of the Kem-Tek so would prefer to use that if possible.

Originally you stated it would take 14lbs and about 7 days with the 2/3 AM and 1 1/3 PM dosage to get CYA up to 30PPM. I am midway through day 2 so nowhere near that point I would imagine with the CYA level. One last question to add to this, at these levels it is fine to start using the pool even though the CYA is still building correct?

I have read many articles and believe it is fine but at same time I do not want to hinder the CYA process by entering to soon.

Still a little confused about the PH and ALK at this point but am in process of trying to get a grip on it for when time comes.

Thanks,
Lou

[Watermom]

Your pH and alk are ok where they are but dichlor is very acidic, so keep an eye on the pH. If it drops below 7.2, you'll want to use some Borax to raise it some.

Looks like you are doing just fine.

[PoolDoc]

but I am in process of adding the Kem-Tech Dichlor(Chlorine Granules) to get the CYA up to the amount you suggested above.

It's fine to do so, but you don't have to follow that particular pace.




So Is the Higher FC just a temporary Bi-Product of getting the CYA in the pool or do you recommend I do something else at this point. I want to get the CYA in so I can switch to just Bleach eventually.

You're chlorinating and adding stabilizer at the same time; as long as you maintain adequate chlorine, and continue using the dichlor, your stabilizer will get where you're going. You can choose the pace, as long as you keep the chlorine high enough.

There's no particular advantage to switching to bleach, until your CYA is high enough to make that necessary.


Have not added any Borax or Baking Soda yet as well.

No need to, so long as your pH is between 7 and 8.



One last question to add to this, at these levels it is fine to start using the pool even though the CYA is still building correct?

By all means. As long as your chlorine is high enough when you start swimming, and as long as you add a dose each evening to clean up what's accumulated you SHOULD go ahead and use the pool. That's what it's for.

[PaPoolNewB]

Did my first "overnight" test to see how the Chlorine and PH were holding up. Only tested CL and PH both last night and this morning. Reading last night about an hour after I added 1 1/3 cups of the Kem-Tek Dichlor was:

FC - 5
CC - 0
PH - 7.4

This morning the readings before the sun came up and I added morning dose of 2/3 cup Kem-Tek Dichlor are:

FC - 4.5
CC - 0
PH - 7.4

So only lost .5ppm overnight which was unexpected. Thought with so little CYA in the new water would have lost more. I plan to test again in about an hour so I can see how much I am losing from the AM to the PM just to keep track. I do not plan on doing the CYA test until the reading from the Post PM and Pre AM dose are identical. Is that correct or should I be doing CYA test sooner ? Should I be running the full battery of tests(CL, PH, Alk, CH) each time or is just keeping an eye on CL and PH fine for now ?

I have set up a timer to the pump and am no longer running 24/7 at this point. Running pump 2.5 hours on and 3.5 hours off for a total of 10 hours a day. The Filter states that it has a 3750GPH rating so from what I read it should take less then 4 hours to turnover pool but you want to double that so at least 8 hours of run time. Once CYA is correct and other numbers are in line I plan to switch to 2 hours on 4 hours off schedule. Hopefully that will be ok, what are initial signs to look out for if not running pump enough ?

I do believe there is a Solar Cover in basement, not sure of the condition of it but I will pull it out today and take a look. What do I look for to know whether or not it is functional ? Has probably been down there for a few years unused as the home owner does not live here and was vacant for long time. Will check the condition of the bubbles and hose it off. Hopefully is able to be used, rather not have to buy another. From what I have read it is best used when outside temp is lower than pool temp and overnight to help prevent excessive heat loss. Have a pool thermometer on order so not sure pool temp currently but definitely is brisk.

Sorry for the multiple questions but I know you are all very busy and figured better to ask all at once then the back and forth all day. Thank you once again for the guidance. Everyone's help is greatly appreciated.

[PoolDoc]

So only lost .5ppm overnight which was unexpected. Thought with so little CYA in the new water would have lost more.

CYA protects chlorine from sunlight (UV photolysis) -- there's usually not a lot of sun at night ;) , so low CYA does't affect OVERNIGHT chlorine loss, only daytime chlorine loss.


I plan to test again in about an hour so I can see how much I am losing from the AM to the PM just to keep track.

AM to PM testing detects loss to sunlight. There's no need to test TA, CH, CYA every time.



Once CYA is correct and other numbers are in line I plan to switch to 2 hours on 4 hours off schedule. Hopefully that will be ok, what are initial signs to look out for if not running pump enough ?

Cloudy water -- even though there's adequate chlorine.



I do believe there is a Solar Cover in basement, not sure of the condition of it but I will pull it out today and take a look. What do I look for to know whether or not it is functional ?

Brittle plastic -- you don't want 10,000 blue plastic flakes in the pool! And, clean it off before you put it in the pool!

[PaPoolNewB]

Well the Solar Cover is shot so that was a let down but least I knew what to look for. Would have been a mess if I placed it in the pool. Thanks Ben for the tip. So used the pool most of the day and did a CL and PH reading after finally got out. The FC dropped from 4.5 in the AM reading to a 2.0. PH remained the same and still 0 CC. Is that a normal amount of drop or more than usual do to the probably still low CYA count? I plan on adding the usual 1 1/3 cup of the Kem-Tek tonight. Should I increase that dose or will that raise the CL count significantly. I have not yet fully grasped the ppm raise with X amount of Chemical. Definitely have more reading to do. If any really good posts you could direct me to for that I would appreciate it.

Had a Solar Cover question. I can get a really good price on a 18ft Solar Cover. The 24ft covers are much more expensive. I do not own so I do not want to invest to much but would be willing to spend a little if it helped. So would a cover that does not completely hide the water surface still increase the water temp effectively or would the remaining exposed pool area negate the covered areas increases? Probably already know the answer to this but figured was worth asking anyway.

Thanks!

[PoolDoc]

Roughly speaking, if you cover 50% of a pool, you'll get 50% of the effect. (18' round sft is about 56% of 24' round sft).

[PaPoolNewB]

I have been adding the Kem-Tek All in One Granules that I purchased off Ebay for 5 days now at a total of 2lbs a day. My FC level has ranged from as little as 2ppm Night reading after a medium day of usage to as much as 8ppm in the AM before sun comes up. Even at that high of level I have still been adding the 2/3 cup Dose in the AM and the 1 1/3 cup Dose in the PM as I am in process of getting or trying to get CYA up. Did first CYA test this morning and the Black Dot never fully disappeared. The water was a little cloudy but I could still make it out. So from what I read obviously the level is below 30ppm still at this point. Am attaching a link to the Kem-Tek Chlorine I purchased from Ebay. I just want to confirm this the correct Chlorine with Stabilizer. The container makes no mention of the Stabilizer anywhere that I can see on it. Want to be sure that the level eventually will come up as I continue adding with this Chemical. If I purchased the wrong thing then I will order Pure CYA at this point to start adding if necessary. Here is the link, thank you for your help.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030BEHZA/ref=oh_details_o02_s03_i00

[PoolDoc]

The KemTek product you linked is fine.

[PaPoolNewB]

Today is 1 full week of adding the Kem-Tek Dichlor. I did a Full panel of tests including CYA. I added the final PM dose of 1 1/3 Cup last night at 9pm. This reading is exactly 12hrs later with having run the Filter for approximately 3.5 hrs during the night.

Temp - 75
FC - 11
CC - 0
PH - 7.4
TA - 80
CH - 40
CYA - 40

Did not add any more of the Dichlor and now I believe I can switch to the BBB method for rest of pool season. Also wanted to point out that I believe I made a mistake in the size of the pool. I do not have measuring tape that is long enough and was basing the size on some old documents I found in basement. I walked the pool using one foot directly in front of the other and came up with 27 steps. I am a size 13 so that roughly one foot each step. Know that sounds ridiculous but should be somewhat accurate. So I need to make all calculations based on a 27' X 4' Round AGP.

Do I need to add Borax and Baking Soda to Increase the TA and PH or are the levels fine where they are? From what I have read I think I need to add 1.4lbs of Borax to bring PH to 7.6 and 2.2lbs of Baking Soda to increase TA to 100.

What should the TA and PH be in regards to my other readings and are they fine at the current level they are at?

Is there a way to calculate dosages properly for future reference. I am having hard time locating the PPM level change for X amount of either Bleach, Borax, and Baking Soda based on my Volume which should now be 17132 gallons.

Pool water is still clear and have had no issues with any type of smell, slimy walls or cloudiness. Running the pump on a cycle of 2.5 hours on and 3.5 hours off continuously for a total of 10hrs a day . Have not needed to Backwash the Filter at all as of yet. The Psi has only increase by 1 for the week according to gauge on pump. Right now the FC is high but will not add bleach till necessary. Would just be nice to know how much to add to increase 1ppm. Thanks!

[PoolDoc]

I walked the pool using one foot directly in front of the other and came up with 27 steps. I am a size 13 so that roughly one foot each step. Know that sounds ridiculous but should be somewhat accurate. So I need to make all calculations based on a 27' X 4' Round AGP.

. . . .

What should the TA and PH be in regards to my other readings and are they fine at the current level they are at?

. . . .

Is there a way to calculate dosages properly for future reference. I am having hard time locating the PPM level change for X amount of either Bleach, Borax, and Baking Soda based on my Volume which should now be 17132 gallons.

1. You might get a more accurate measurement, by measuring AROUND your pool, and then dividing by 3.14 (∏)

2. In a vinyl pool, CH is not important. TA only matters if you are having problems controlling your pH. If your pH is reasonably stable, I wouldn't bother with any TA adjustment.

3. Trying to calculate doses for pH change is NOT a good idea. If you really need to do that, use the K2006 acid or base demand reagents, and their dose tables.

Otherwise, that's what the PF does. Your PF is 7.8, which means that it is 1/7.8 of a 1,000,000 lb pool (~120,000 gallons). When you add 1lb of a 100% chemical, like stabilizer, you will increase that level by 7.8. So, 3lbs of cyanuric acid in your pool will increase your CYA level by ~23 ppm (3 x 7.8). Plain 6% bleach has about 0.5 lbs of chlorine gas in it, so each gallon will add about 4 ppm of chlorine to your pool (7.8 x 0.5). Dichlor is about 55% chlorine & about 50% CYA (no, I didn't make a mistake; no, I won't explain: trust me, you don't wanna know -- has to do with old water treatment custom!). So 1lb of dichlor in your pool will add about 4.3 ppm chlorine and about 3.9 ppm CYA.