Ugh! Still murky after a couple weeks

[mikora7]

It's been weeks now that we have been battling the murky, cloudiness in our pool. FINALLY I think I have convinced my husband that we need to be more aggressive. I took a sample in to be tested on Friday and the pool store told us that the ph was too high (we've battled that all summer,) the stabilizer was too low and the chlorine was too low. It floats from greenish to cloudy and I pretty much sat him down, showed him the pages here and said to put the laundry room bleach in tonight to raise it up to shock levels. But he's afraid of using too much and raising the chlorine to shock levels for more than a few hours. So to clear the pool, how long should we keep the chlorine levels up that high? For a few days? Until it's clear? Is there a hard and fast rule on this?

Tina

[PoolDoc]

Sounds like you may have to agree on a plan at home, before you can use much advice from us. I paste some standard snippets we use that seem relevant to your situation.

Ben

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+ It's much easier to answer your questions, when we have the details about your pool in one place. We often 'waste' the first few posts back and forth collecting information. So, please complete our new Pool Chart form -- it takes about 30 seconds, but will save much more than that.
Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)

+ Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) / phenol test kit, or if available at YOUR Walmart (check availability (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668)), get the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit, which is compatible with the Taylor K2006. Test the pool as soon and you can, and post the results. If you get the 6-way kit, ALSO test the water you FILL the pool with, especially if it's a well, and post THOSE results as well. (The HTH is the best available kit you're likely to find locally, but it's not the K-2006. It can only provide rough measurements chlorine levels above 5 ppm, and it measures "TOTAL" hardness, rather than "CALCIUM" hardness, which is not ideal.)

+ Having a good test kit makes pool care easier for EVERYONE. A good test kit means a kit that can test chlorine from 0 - 25 ppm, pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, and stabilizer with reasonable accuracy. Test strips (AKA 'guess-strips' ) do NOT meet this standard. Some pool store testing is accurate; most is not. The ONLY way you'll know whether your pool store is accurate or bogus, is by testing accurately your own self. On the other hand, pool store 'computer' dosing recommendations are NEVER trustworthy -- ignore them. They are designed to sell more chemicals than you need, and WILL cause many pool problems.

+ We recommend the Taylor K-2006 test kit, which meets the requirements above, for many reasons. The HTH 6-way drops kit is a great starter kit, and is compatible with the K2006 (it's made by Taylor). There are a few alternatives; for example Lamotte makes an FAS-DPD kit that's OK -- but it costs 3x as much. But, we're not aware of any test that is better, and since we are all familiar with the K-2006 (and can help you with it) we recommend it exclusively ( Test kit info page (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16551) )

One caution for the 2012 season: Amazon does not stock the kits directly. So when buying at Amazon, Amato is our current preferred seller. However, they often don't list enough stock to last the whole day, so try order mid-morning. You should expect a delivered cost under $60 for the K2006A and under $95 for the K2006C. If you can't find that, wait a day.

+ Here are links to the kits we recommend (you can check local availability on the HTH kit, using the Walmart link):

HTH 6-Way Test Kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668) @ Walmart
Taylor K2006A (3/4 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIIG/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Taylor K2006C (2 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIJ0/poolbooks) @ Amazon


+ There are 3 critical pool chemical levels: chlorine, pH, and stabilizer. If you don't know your stabilizer level, we won't be able to help much till you do. Read the Best Guess page ( poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html ) for more information. If you don't have adequate chlorine in your pool . . . NOTHING else is going to go right. You need to be more afraid -- much more afraid -- of low chlorine, than of high chlorine. Dermatologists have been using 50 - 100 ppm "bleach baths" (Google it!) for over 50 years to treat skin conditions on both adult and pediatric patients, and they are still using bleach baths today!

[mikora7]

Dh is on board ~ he'll do whatever you tell us to do. I cannot give you specific numbers for any of the water tests except for the test I had done at the pool store a week ago. (A new test kit is in transit.)

Since my original post, we have been keeping the chlorine levels high, higher than our current test kit can measure. It dropped down into the swimming range long enough for the kids to swim and then I shocked it again using the remaining bag of shock that we had. Since then I have been adding laundry bleach to keep it high. Today it is cloudy (can't see the bottom at all) but definitely looking clearer ~ no green today. The ph test came out just a smidge dark than 7.2 but definitely not as high as 7.5.

Our temps have been in the upper 80's and for the next few days will be soaring back into the mid-90's. We did add stabilizer (the pool store indicated it was at 25 and the range was 30-150?) and have had no problem keeping the chlorine levels up since. So where do we go from here? The test kit won't arrive for possibly another week so I'm kind of flying in the dark. Will it clear without using a clarifier? The filter is not showing any green anymore after running for a few hours.

One more thing: I did fill out the pool chart entry form as requested and submitted it but I'm afraid I wasn't able to find any information on the pump. It's the standard pump that came with the pool when we bought it this spring.

[PoolDoc]

Get a cheap OTO kit, and use it. An OTO kit is ALWAYS a good back up.

Keep your chlorine in the DARK yellow range all the time, till you get a K2006.

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+ Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) / phenol test kit, or if available at YOUR Walmart (check availability (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668)), get the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit, which is compatible with the Taylor K2006. Test the pool as soon and you can, and post the results. If you get the 6-way kit, ALSO test the water you FILL the pool with, especially if it's a well, and post THOSE results as well. (The HTH is the best available kit you're likely to find locally, but it's not the K-2006. It can only provide rough measurements chlorine levels above 5 ppm, and it measures "TOTAL" hardness, rather than "CALCIUM" hardness, which is not ideal.)

[Spensar]

mikora7, bit of moral support for you. When I started with the pool, I didn't really get it until I thought of the algae as weed. If you pick the top off a weed in your lawn, but leave the roots and some of the plant, it will grow back. Same with killing off algae, if you back off the chlorine without the algae being dead, dead, dead, it will bounce back. To quote PoolDoc "If you don't have adequate chlorine in your pool . . . NOTHING else is going to go right."

Green to cloudy is the normal progression, so you are getting there, the key is to not let the chlorine level come down. I opened my pool really late this year, and it was dark green with water bugs and a blooming eco system. Adjusted the ph, pounded it with chlorine, and it was clear in a few days. Sometimes it takes longer, sometimes less.

[mikora7]

Thanks Spensar.

Today we can see three of the four steps on the ladder so we are making progress, but I didn't realize it would take so much time to clear. Since I've started working on it aggressively last week the chlorine has not dropped below the maximum safe swimming zone on my test kit (3 on the hth oto chlorine test) and was at 5 this morning. Is this a good range to keep?

I do have another question: since we can't see anything at the bottom of the pool since we can't see the bottom, how do I know if I should be vacuuming it? Should I be vacuuming and hoping I'm getting stuff up and out? Or wait until stuff settles further so we can see better?

[PoolDoc]

how do I know if I should be vacuuming it? Should I be vacuuming and hoping I'm getting stuff up and out? Or wait until stuff settles further so we can see better?

+ If you can vacuum to your skimmer, then just systematically cover the bottom of the pool . . . and clean the cartridge after.

+ The correct chlorine level is determined by your CYA level -- do you know what that value is?

+ The OEM cartridges in Intex / Summer Escapes / etc. filters are not high quality. The Intex manuals recommend replacing them completely every 2 weeks. A BETTER option is to replace them permanently with 2 - 3 Unicel cartridges, and rotating them through a cleaning solution. Properly maintained, the Unicel cartridges will last all season AND will filter better. So even though they cost more per cartridge, they cost less per season! Learn to maintain them, by reading this post, Cleaning-your-Cartridge-Filter-wiithout-Damaging-It! (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?18044)

But, purchasing them is tricky. Amazon does not consistently stock them, and some of the 3rd party sellers are charging high prices and/or high shipping. So, check the Amazon link, but watch out for the prices and shipping costs.

It would be nice if you could just buy them elsewhere, but many of the online pool stores are listing Pleatco or other Asian made low quality filters, as "Unicel C-4607 type" or "fits Unicel C-4607". So shop carefully!

Here are the Amazon links:


Unicel C-4607 Replacement Filter Cartridge (Easy Set Size A or C) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BNPRC2/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Unicel C-5315 Replacement Filter Cartridge for 15 Square Foot Intex B Filter (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0039X2XZK/poolbooks) @ Amazon

[mikora7]

Thank you for your quick reply. We will discuss this as I think we only have one more filter remaining in the shed to get through this summer. Normally we are closing the pool up by mid-September but with the extreme heat this summer I do think it'll be up a bit longer. By the way, this morning I could see the bottom when up close to the pool and the kids are very excited as they can see progress as well. Thanks again!

[PoolDoc]

Keep in mind, that if you get (3) Unicels now, and clean them properly (read the guide!), they should ALSO last you through next seeason.

[Spensar]

"Today we can see three of the four steps on the ladder so we are making progress, but I didn't realize it would take so much time to clear. Since I've started working on it aggressively last week the chlorine has not dropped below the maximum safe swimming zone on my test kit (3 on the hth oto chlorine test) and was at 5 this morning. Is this a good range to keep? "

Does that mean 5 ppm? Only running it at 3 to 5 is flirting with being ineffective, since that can be used up quick, then the algae gets a chance to bounce back. As PoolDoc indicated, the CYA (Stablizer) level is important, as the more stabliizer there is, the higher the chlorine level level needs to be to be effective. If the CYA is 0 to 10 you need a minimum of 10 PPM and to keep it constant or higher until the pool water is clear. The better you do this, the quicker the water clears. This will require adding chlorine at least once a day. You have made progress, can see a few steps, so you don't want to backslide by backing off the chlorine.

The chlorine level required is higher than the OTO kit can measure, so as PoolDoc indicated, add chlorine until it is dark yellow, all the time, so that you are using an effective level.

You posted that the pool store said your stablizer is to low, get the pool clear first, then address that. Did they say, or give you a print out, of what the stabilizer level, PH, etc. is? Always get the actual reading from them - first step to independance! The great folks here also need the readings to really assist you.

I'm used to this routine, so when there is an algae bloom, I am aggressive. With zero stabilizer, I ran 20+ ppm until pretty well clear then backed it off a bit but kept it over 10 for a couple of days after clear. I added liquid bleach once or twice a day. Killing algae takes a lot more chlorine than you think.

If you haven't found it, recommend reading this as well: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?9512-Green-Cloudy-Disgusting-Pool-You-have-ALGAE!!!