Looking to buy our first pool.. Wondering about pricing and options.. [Archive]

tbird2340

07-29-2012, 09:42 PM

We would like to get a pool mainly for family fun with our kids (6, 2, 10 months).. We go to a friends often but want to get one of our own..

Today we went to The Great Escape pool store.. They were supposedly having some major specials going but that's what I'm posting to find out..

I know nothing about pools.. Here is what they package was:

24' 54" Quest Pool - http://www.shopthegreatescape.com/products/product_info/1897_54%22-quest
ABS Pearl Wide Mouth Skimmer
Taupe Slid-Lock A Frame Ladder
Hayward 110 Filter (not the sand kind)
Hayward 2HP Pump
Solar Cover
Zodiac Konticki 2 Cleaner
Vac Equipment
Chemical Kit
Free delivery and install (dig up to 6")

Out the door price was $3,841..

No winter cover included and not sure if I should be looking for other options either..

The pool looked nice and supposedly the filter and stuff was the upgraded package.. I just don't know if that's good and it's hard to do local price comparisons because they all have pools with their own names etc..

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!

Watermom

07-30-2012, 11:51 AM

I haven't priced all this stuff to have no idea if it is a good deal or not but just a couple of comments.

That pump is WAY too big for this pool. In the case of pool pumps, bigger is NOT better. I am not the pump guru around here but I think a 3/4hp would be plenty of pump for this pool. (I've asked Ben to pop into this thread and offer pump/filter recommendations for you.)

What kind of filter is it? DE? Cartridge?

Also, don't buy the chemical kit. You're better off buying your own things to treat the pool with because that way you know exactly what all you are putting in your water and you can do it a whole lot more inexpensively. Lots of the pool chemicals being sold these days are what we call "voodoo mixes" with some stuff in them that you do NOT want in your pool.

You might also ask them if their installation includes some type of foam barrier under the liner and also any coves to form a smooth slope where the wall meets the floor so it isn't a sharp angle there.

Do some reading here on the forum and also on our sister website www.poolsolutions.com. (Until your registration is completed, you will have to log out to be able to see the rest of the forum, however.)

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

tbird2340

07-31-2012, 02:06 PM

That pump is WAY too big for this pool. In the case of pool pumps, bigger is NOT better. I am not the pump guru around here but I think a 3/4hp would be plenty of pump for this pool. (I've asked Ben to pop into this thread and offer pump/filter recommendations for you.)

So they are selling a pump that is not good for the pool? I know it was a package "upgrade" deal that they have going on so I'm not paying extra for it but if it's not good for the pool and they are selling it to me I'd be pretty pissed.

What kind of filter is it? DE? Cartridge?

I believe a cartridge because he opened it up and it looked like this: http://www.hayward-pool.com/images/pools/products/large/ReplacementCartFilters.jpg

Also, don't buy the chemical kit. You're better off buying your own things to treat the pool with because that way you know exactly what all you are putting in your water and you can do it a whole lot more inexpensively. Lots of the pool chemicals being sold these days are what we call "voodoo mixes" with some stuff in them that you do NOT want in your pool.

It comes with the package.. I don't think they would make it any cheaper if I didn't get it.

You might also ask them if their installation includes some type of foam barrier under the liner and also any coves to form a smooth slope where the wall meets the floor so it isn't a sharp angle there.

I will ask them this.. Thanks

Watermom

07-31-2012, 07:09 PM

It is common for AG pool packages to come with mismatched pump/filter combos. I have asked Ben to offer a recommendation for you in regards to your equipment.

That is a cartridge filter.

Regarding the chemical kit -- even if you do get it, I would advise not using it until you tell us exact ingredients and letting someone here help you decide if it is ok to use or not. Many pool store chemicals are what we call voodoo mixes and often have ingredients in them that you do not want in your pool.

bradatkins

08-02-2012, 09:42 PM

Just to give you some comparison, not the same type of pool of course. Just bought a pool a week ago:

15x30' 54" Resin
Salt Water System
Skimer
A Frame Ladder
Sand Filter
Hayward 1.5HP Pump
Solar Cover
Winter Cover
No install
Vac Equipment
Chemical Kit
Liner
21 PC Styrofoam Cove
300 Gift Cert

Out the door price was $4495 ($3,555 without Salt System) + Cdn Taxes

PoolDoc

08-02-2012, 10:46 PM

Unfortunately, prices in Canada (or Texas, for that matter) are not likely to be good guide to reasonable prices in Ohio, where the OP lives.

tbird2340

05-20-2013, 01:20 PM

Back with talks of getting a pool this year.. Did "Ben" ever get a chance to read this thread?

Thanks!

robbym70

05-29-2013, 11:04 AM

Unfortunately, prices in Canada (or Texas, for that matter) are not likely to be good guide to reasonable prices in Ohio, where the OP lives.

exchange rate is pretty close these days...about 3 cents difference.

PoolDoc

05-29-2013, 11:17 AM

The issue is not just exchange rates; prices -- especially for services and construction -- vary widely across the US, too.

tbird2340

05-25-2014, 10:09 PM

Back with talks of getting a pool this year.. Did "Ben" ever get a chance to read this thread?

Thanks!

LOL Almost a year to the day and I'm back looking at getting a pool again this year! :)

Any more advice would be appreciated..

Pappy

05-25-2014, 11:22 PM

Get an Intex metal frame, above ground pool - the blow-up models are not reliable. Intex has the most consistent quality of lower end pools. This is the third season we've had our Intex and it has been WELL worth the money. We upgraded to a sand filter this year because the Intex cartridge filters don't do a great job(almost worthless with the Intex brand filter) and we didn't know there were higher quality cartridges available. Also, a 2 hp pump is way more than you need, and cost more to run. A 3/4 hp will probably work and 1-1/2 will be plenty.

Read this
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/above-ground-pool-problems.html

and this
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/21718-Contact-info-BBB-reports-and-Reviews-of-Intex-Summer-Escapes-amp-Bestway-pools

tbird2340

05-31-2014, 11:05 PM

So I'm thinking about buying all the parts and then having an installer install it..

The pool that my local store has that we like is called "Quest" and I found it sold online here: http://www.thepoolfactory.com/quest-24x54-round.html#

So other than the pool, I need advice on the pump / filter.. I read recently that for up to 24' you should get a 1HP pump and that getting more than that is actually counter productive.. Is that true?

Also, sand or cartridge? I'm leaning towards cartridge..

Thanks

Watermom

05-31-2014, 11:41 PM

You are right in your thinking that too big of a pump is counter productive. In the case of pool pumps, bigger is NOT better.

I actually think if I was buying a 24ft AG (I used to have one), I'd go with smaller than a 1hp pump. Actually, when I had my 24ft, I initially had a 3/4hp. When it was time to replace that pump, I had Poconos (who is another moderator who is no longer active on the forum) pick out something for me to buy. He told me to get a 1/2 hp full-rated inground pump. I think it is a Hayward Superpump. Inground pumps are usually made a little more sturdily and also have the advantage of being self-priming which AG pumps are not. I now have a 27ft AG and am still using that same pump and it does just fine.

I have it paired with a 300 lb. sand filter. I prefer sand filters because they are by far the easiest to deal with. I have always had good filtration with my sand filters. They are easily backwashed (takes 2-3 minutes tops and requires nothing more than turning a handle on the multi-port valve) as opposed to having to actually take out and clean a cartridge filter which is a nuisance and can be a very messy job. In fact, a cartridge would be my last choice. (You'll get lots of opinions on which type of filter is best. ;))

There are several members of the Pool Forum support team who are way more knowledgeable than me about pumps and filters but until one of them comes by and gives you a good recommendation, I just thought I'd share what I have.

tbird2340

05-31-2014, 11:46 PM

Thanks a lot for the reply! So if I went with a 1/2 HP Inground Pump, what should I pair that with as far as the filter goes? I know when you buy them as a "package" the filter/pump come on a nice stand.. If I buy them separate do I just make my own flat surface to put them on or what?

RE: Sand vs Cartridge.. My friend at work had a cart and he switched it for a sand.. The guy at the pool store tonight sorta had me leaning towards a cart filter because he made it sound like the sand ones were a major PITA.. He said you have to (or should) change the sand yearly and that it's a bear to get all the wet sand out etc..

My other friend has sand and likes it and a neighbor has a cart and he said he would go that way.. So yea.. LOL.. It depends on who you ask..

So for the liner.. Should I go with a bead liner? 25gauge?

I think the rest is pretty straight forward.. A cleaning kit, solar and winter covers, a ladder, etc.. I'm just most concerned about picking the right filter/pump..

Thanks

Pappy

05-31-2014, 11:58 PM

From http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/above-ground-pool-problems.html

A combination that will work fairly well for almost ALL above ground pools -- regardless of pool size -- is a 1/2 HP Hayward "Super" pump (mfg. model #SP2600X5), a 22" Hayward "PRO" sand filter (mfg. model #SP220T), a Hayward 1.5" "Vari-Flo" multiport valve (mfg. model #SP071113), and a cord set (#SPX1550WA [25 ft long] or #SPX1250 [6 ft long])

If I was in the market for a pump/filter on the pool you described , I'd probably go with a 3/4 hp 2 SPEED pump and a 250lb sand filter. I've also read that 2" plumbing instead of 1-1/2" will probably pay for its self in energy savings, for pumps 3/4 hp and larger.

PoolDoc

06-01-2014, 07:25 AM

So I'm thinking about buying all the parts and then having an installer install it..

Just remember that, if you do it that way, warranty problems are ALL yours.

If the installer sells the pool, and something goes wrong, he's on the hook. But if you buy the pool from a 3rd party, and there's a problem, the installer will usually say 'the problem is with the pool', and the 3rd party will say, 'the problem is with the installation'.

Just sayin'

PoolDoc

06-01-2014, 08:21 AM

RE: Sand vs Cartridge.. My friend at work had a cart and he switched it for a sand.. The guy at the pool store tonight sorta had me leaning towards a cart filter because he made it sound like the sand ones were a major PITA.. He said you have to (or should) change the sand yearly and that it's a bear to get all the wet sand out etc..

So yea.. LOL.. It depends on who you ask..

Yes, but not in the way you're thinking: the cartridge advocating pool guy is lying! You do NOT have to change the sand annually, or anything like that. I've worked on old commercial pools that had 40+ year old sand that still worked just fine! Replacing sand *IS* a pain, but if you maintain your pool chemistry and don't use Baquacil, odds are it's a job you'll never have to do!

Sand filters may have to be cleaned more frequently than cartridge filters, but it's MUCH easier. You can backwash a sand filter (or some DE filters) wearing a suit. Try cleaning a cartridge filter in a suit . . . and you'll need a new suit!

There *are* a number of people here who have cartridge filters and like them -- but many of them have pools in arid regions, where there are water use restrictions, and where they don't have thunderstorms filling their skimmers (and filters) with leaf bits and bugs.

One key point that applies regardless of filter type: get a BIG filter and a LITTLE pump, and your pool life will be much easier.

tbird2340

06-01-2014, 09:00 AM

Just remember that, if you do it that way, warranty problems are ALL yours.

If the installer sells the pool, and something goes wrong, he's on the hook. But if you buy the pool from a 3rd party, and there's a problem, the installer will usually say 'the problem is with the pool', and the 3rd party will say, 'the problem is with the installation'.

Just sayin'

Oh crap.. Really? So people don't go this route that much? I'm not sure how much pool install is but if it's under $1,000 I would save about $500.. BUT, if the above is likely to happen.. It wouldn't be worth the savings..

PoolDoc

06-01-2014, 04:00 PM

Oh, I think people DO go that route fairly often. But I also think most of them don't understand the consequences till too late.

Years and years ago, when I was working as a repair plumber, Lowes began to sell water heaters at $5 - 10 more than they cost me buying them "wholesale". At the time, I was charging around $150 to swap out an electric heater, and adding about $60 to what I paid for the heater. More than a few people thought it would be a good idea to save that $50, and buy it themselves.

Initially, I got P.O.d. But I realized that it was a reasonable choice for them to make . . . based on the limited info they had. So I explained that about 5% of the heaters I installed had some sort of problem within the first month -- and that I'd correct that for free, if I sold the heater, but that it would be another service call if I had installed a heater from Lowes. And, I pointed out that maybe 2% of the heaters had a MAJOR problem within the warranty period, requiring replacement, and that (again) that replacement was free, if I sold the heater, but another $150 if they bought the heater.

Pretty much everyone decided -- once they were informed -- that saving that $50 wasn't such a good idea after all. But, they wouldn't have known if I'd just gotten mad, and not explained calmly.

When you're doing the work yourself, it makes sense to buy from the best source, so long as they'll honor basic equipment warranties. But hiring a contractor to install YOUR materials often leads to a real mess when something goes wrong.

PoolDoc

06-01-2014, 04:04 PM

I probably should add, people brag about getting a great deal, but not about the stupid mistakes they make. (Me too! I still haven't told the story of the 300,000 gallon pool I turned purple, while 200 people were swimming in it!)

As a result, you tend to hear from your friends and buddies when they save money by doing it themselves, or buying it themselves, but not so much, when it all goes sour. This tends to make DIY or BIY projects sound better than they are.

We see it all the time here, where a poster will be actively posting, till it finally becomes clear even to them, that THEY were the ones that screwed up . . . at which point they disappear from the forum.

Information flow is such an interesting topic (to those of us with philosophical inclinations).

Watermom

06-01-2014, 09:45 PM

I still haven't told the story of the 300,000 gallon pool I turned purple, while 200 people were swimming in it!)
Ok, Ben. I've heard mention of this story several times through the years. I think it is finally time that you spill! Whatdya think, people? We wanna hear this story, right??? ;)

PoolDoc

06-01-2014, 09:48 PM

Maybe after the 4th . . .

tbird2340

06-01-2014, 10:06 PM

If I was in the market for a pump/filter on the pool you described , I'd probably go with a 3/4 hp 2 SPEED pump and a 250lb sand filter. I've also read that 2" plumbing instead of 1-1/2" will probably pay for its self in energy savings, for pumps 3/4 hp and larger.

One key point that applies regardless of filter type: get a BIG filter and a LITTLE pump, and your pool life will be much easier.

So this is frustrating.. Here is why.. For example on this site: http://www.thepoolfactory.com/pool-supplies/pool-equipment/filter-systems?cat=214&filter_type=324 where I may buy the pool.. All the filter / pump combos are not as you guys suggest. If it's only a 1HP pump (which they don't even offer lower than that) then the filter is only like 100 - 150lbs sand filter.. You guys recommend a small pump (3/4) and a big filter (250lb) but it's just not offered..

Anyone have any links to where I can get what you suggest?

Thanks

PoolDoc

06-01-2014, 10:38 PM

Yeah. Hayward has some combos that aren't terrible, but none really meet our recommendations.

Give me the dimensions of the pool you've picked, and tell me which filter type you prefer (sand / de / cartridge) and I'll try to cobble together some links.

tbird2340

06-01-2014, 10:49 PM

24' round x 54" high. I think I'm leaning towards sand but that's not set in stone..

Thanks much.

Watermom

06-01-2014, 10:50 PM

(Go with sand! You won't regret it. It is so easy!)

BigDave

06-01-2014, 10:53 PM

+1 for what Watermom said.

PoolDoc

06-01-2014, 10:55 PM

OK. I'll look at that tomorrow.

tbird2340

06-02-2014, 10:29 AM

Did a chat with someone on a pool site..

ME: Regarding pumps / filters.. I read that the typical pool places will try and "throw in" a free pump upgrade to say 2hp or what not.. I read that a 24' pool shouldn't have more than a 1 hp pump and that a bigger pump is actually counter productive as it pushes water through the filter too fast.
THEM: Depends on the filter media
ME: Sand i'm going with.
THEM: Sand works better with a fast flow, cartridge and de does not

So is he full of bologna?

PoolDoc

06-02-2014, 11:10 AM

He's full of something, but I doubt that it's bologna. Well, I suppose you could call it 'used bologna'. ;)

Excess flow pushes dirt THROUGH sand filters, and washes the sand out of the filter during backwash. Excess flow, and the accompanying high pressure, can break the frames inside DE filters, and damages the cartridge itself in cartridge filters.

Yeah, he's definitely full of it, but 'it' is not anything nearly so nice as bologna.

tbird2340

06-02-2014, 11:17 AM

Hahahahha.. One thing to note when helping me choose filter/pump.. I may be adding a heater to the pool down the line.. (few years or so).. Not sure if that will impact the pump choice.

Thanks!

tbird2340

06-02-2014, 03:43 PM

One more question.. Went to another pool place today.. We've been looking at pools with the 8" resin ledge.. This place was trying to tell me that resin ledges are bad because they discolor, crack, and even warp (he showed me a picture of a customer's pool where ever piece of ledge was warped).. This kind of freaked me out..

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks

pedsrn

06-02-2014, 06:36 PM

Well, I just made a huge DIY mistake (installed the liner crooked) and as much as I'd like to blame it on the liner being too big, I have no doubt we just installed it crooked...next time, I will pay someone to do it!

ON the pump....

I have a 24x52. The first pump was a 3/4 hp off-brand that was packaged with the pool. I had solar panels and swg inline and it never seemed strong enough. I got about three years out of it before it started screaming at me. When I replaced it last spring, I went with a Hayward 1.5hp and LOVE it. I've not had to replace the sand (haven't changed it in three years actually) and love the return pressure I now get. I've not had the issues ya'll speak of with the larger pump (although I do defer to your greater knowledge). I am not a big back-washer though...only bw after vacuuming, unless I am fighting a bloom. When I do backwash, I usually do it 30-45 sec and I'm done. It's worked very well for me. What I really like is I don't have to run it nearly as long to circulate my chemicals.

Be very careful on your liner with pool package as a lot of them come with thin liners. On the warranty: Do most pool stores cover as a package? Because, when we bought ours, everything was warranted through each manufacturer...separately. And reading the fine print in those, I found them to be pretty worthless.

Bought a liner from linerworld last week...25 year warranty. Reading the warranty, I laughed. Once water is added to pool, seams are no longer warrantied. If seams leak after water added, they blame leaks on faulty installation (thank God our faulty installation didn't cause that!). So, what does their warranty REALLY cover? Nada.

tbird2340

06-02-2014, 06:48 PM

I'm leaning towards you with the warranty.. Pretty much all have the "fine print" to get them out of anything and everything..

So here's where I'm at.. I think I would prefer to buy everything seperate, that way I can get all the exact equipment I want, and then pay an installer to do it.. Problem is, I can't find one single pool installer.. All our local pool places you have to buy the pool through them..

So, if I have to do that.. I've narrowed it down to these two:

The Great Escape (More of a national type store):
Quest 24' x 54"
Specs:
Specifications
Massive 8" wide injection-molded resin top ledges, resist bad weather, chlorinated water and constant wear
Decorative 8" Krystal Kote steel uprights and resin foot collars give the Quest strength, support and style
54" high wall finished with Duratex anticorrosion paint protects against humidity and chemicals
Durable resin caps and boots give the Quest strength, support and style
Heavy-duty tracks, over-sized connectors and over-sized fasteners add strength to a pool that will last for summers to come
Oval Yardmore space saving system saves much needed yard space and looks more attractive
20 Gauge blue liner included with pool price with the option to upgrade to a 25 gauge blue or printed liner
Widemouth Thru-wall skimmer and water return fitting included
Wall Color/Design: Champagne/Panorama
Warranty: Manufacturer's 60-year limited warranty
Made in the USA
- See more at: http://www.thepoolfactory.com/quest-oval.html#specifications
Pump / FilterHayward 110 SwimPro (Cartridge) with Hayward 2.0HP Pump
Liner - 25 Gauge liner
Extras - Solar Cover, Zodiac Knoticki 2 Pool Cleaner, Maintenance Kit, hoses, yada yada..

Total Price - $3,850 Installed

BY Pools (Local Pool Place)
Distinction 24' x 52"
Specs here: http://www.apollo-pools.com/PDF/pool-distinction_lx.pdf
Pump / FilterHayward S180T 18" Sand Filter and a Hayward 1.0 HP Pump
Liner - 20 Gauge liner
Extras - Solar Cover, Maintenance Kit, hoses, yada yada..

Total Price - $4,050 Installed

So the differences in the above.. The first pool has the resin ledges, the second has steel. The first pool is 54" the second is 52".. The first pool has an automatic pool cleaner, the second does not.. The first has a 25 gauge and the second does not..

So all that to say.. The second is more and seems like I shouldn't go with them for the differences noted above.. Problem is, they are local and I would like to buy off them then more of a "walmart" type store.. Are the differences above that big of a deal??

Any ideas on what to look up other then swimming pool installers in the phone book? I can't believe I can't find one single company!

Thanks

PoolDoc

06-02-2014, 10:00 PM

Bought a liner from linerworld last week...25 year warranty. Reading the warranty, I laughed. Once water is added to pool, seams are no longer warrantied. If seams leak after water added, they blame leaks on faulty installation (thank God our faulty installation didn't cause that!). So, what does their warranty REALLY cover? Nada.

Unfortunately, my experience has been that this sort of thing is VERY common. In generally, the longer the warranty, the more likely it it to be bogus.

I should note that, at least in my area, AG pools are considered a service market only for losers (as in, pool guy losers). 'Successful' AG pool guys are builders with an 'in, out, paid, and gone forever' approach. I don't know about other areas of the country, since I don't have many pool guys on this forum, and anyhow, it's not something that they would discuss in front of customers.

But the brutal truth is -- it's HARD to make money doing AG pool service. I won't get into the reasons, but they are quite real.

tbird2340

06-04-2014, 12:10 PM

So now another place is in the mix.. I like the pool better.. http://www.shoplitehouse.com/store/product/192328/15%27-x-54%22-Pinnacle-Pool-Package-with-50-Sq-Ft-Cartridge-Filter/

However, their packages are a 1hp pump and a 100lb sand filter.. And I actually think the package he quoted me was a 50lb sand filter..

Are those big enough for a 24' x 54"?

BigDave

06-04-2014, 12:16 PM

Pump - more than enough. Filter - way too small for the pump.

tbird2340

06-04-2014, 12:17 PM

Pump - more than enough. Filter - way too small for the pump.

Argh! This is so annoying.. Why do they pair them like this then?? So what size sand filter should I get for a 24' x 54"?

Thanks

Watermom

06-04-2014, 12:17 PM

Ben will be around later to comment, but let me just say that a 50lb sand filter is a joke. And a 1hp paired with a 100lb sand filter is not a good match. The pump will blow debris through that small filter.

tbird2340

06-04-2014, 12:20 PM

Thanks guys.. Soooo frustrating!!

Quick question.. Should I get the "startup chemical package" if I'm going to try and go the BBB route? I think I'm just going to say something like.. "How much for the pool, this pump, this filter, this, that, etc.." instead of trying to go with their "packages"..

Watermom

06-04-2014, 01:30 PM

No. You don't need it and its hard to tell what is in it.

tbird2340

06-04-2014, 01:32 PM

And here is their reply regarding a bigger pump..

We offer larger sand tanks made by Hayward with a pump but they are $100 more than the Waterway 19” system. It is called the S-180 T with 1.5 HP pump. We do have even bigger than that also, but the tank and pump would be purchased separately at that point.

So I'm assuming that's a good sized filter (150lb) but is the 1.5HP too much?

PoolDoc

06-04-2014, 03:52 PM

You can probably ask them what the up-charge would be to get a 22" filter . . . which would be ideal.

Here's the complete package at Amazon for about $600:
Hayward S220T 22" Sand filter (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000EXWL46/scouscho-20/)
Hayward SP15922S Power-Flo Pump (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00212NNU4/scouscho-20/)

Printo those out, and show them to him. I'd expect about a $400 upcharge over what he wants to give you. But that combo will make your pool MUCH easier to maintain, your water much clearer, and will reduce operating costs significantly. (Leave it on low speed, unless you're cleaning or have a problem.)

tbird2340

06-04-2014, 03:54 PM

You would expect him to upcharge me $400 for what again?

Thanks for those links.. I'll see what I can get the pool for without any pump/filter and then maybe just buy that.. I'm assuming I would need piping etc with that right? They don't come with?

PoolDoc

06-04-2014, 04:34 PM

If you supply the pumps, you can ask him to include connection to your equipment, if he doesn't want to sell you those items. And if you get your own, get a set of valves to put downstream of the filter and upstream of the pump -- it makes service MUCH easier.

Valterra 6201 PVC Gate Valve, White, 1.5" Slip (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000PR3FDW/scouscho-20/) 2" Slip (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B005OTLJNE/scouscho-20/)

Valterra 700-15 PVC Ball Valve, White, 1-1/2" Slip (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000PR6XPO/scouscho-20/)
Valterra 700-20 PVC Ball Valve, White, 2" Slip (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000PR3FF0/scouscho-20/)

The gate valves are easier; the ball valves are cheaper and more durable. Just remember to set the handles on a 45 to winterize them: they trap water internally in both the fully closed and the fully open positions.