Drain pool or add 77 lbs of shock - other options?

[Barbsite]

I am new to maintaining a pool and have been trying to better understand what needs to be done to keep the water clear and safe – but still don’t have a strong understanding.
We have a 22,500 gallon in-ground vinyl pool. We have had problems this summer with the chlorine level. The pool temperature (floating thermometer) has been between 90 and 105 degrees (higher temperature after we had the cover closed). The pool has been used infrequently this year and mostly the cover has been closed.
I had a pool store test the water yesterday.
Saturation Index: 0.7
TDS: 1000
CYA: 0
Total Chlorine: 0.5
Free Chlorine: 0
pH: 8.1
Total Alkalinity: 178
Total Hardness: 142

The store suggested that I add 8 pounds of shock and they would run an overnight test to see how much shock is needed to get the pool water balanced. After I put in the shock, white globs appeared in the water, mostly on the surface. The water is mostly clear. This morning the pool store called and said it would need a total of 77 lbs of shock. Another option would be to drain the pool part way add new water, then drain again, and then have the water tested to see how much shock was needed at that point. Can you tell me – are these are best and only options for getting the water balanced and getting the white globs to go away?

My husband is considering purchasing a new pump and filter first because he does not believe the circulation is adequate.

[Speedo]

If you follow links in a moderator's signature: using the CYA / FC chart you can determine your shock FC value. The pool store is wrong, there is no set amount of chlorine used to shock, it's a process that involves keeping your pool at the shock FC value until it passes specific criteria (also should be linked in a signature).

A partial drain and refill might be needed if your CYA levels are too high (ideal levels are between 40-60ppm)

Temperature doesn't cause algae, un-sanitized water is what allows algae growth.


Remember: the pool store is in business to make money and many people working there might not even own a pool. Also, liquid chlorine is what most people prefer to use.

[PoolDoc]

It sounds like they may be trying to do a chlorine demand test, of some sort. If so, it doesn't work the way they are having you do it. Let's start with this:

1. Add 6 gallons of PLAIN 6% (chk %) household bleach EACH evening, till we get this worked out. That should keep you out of trouble and may solve the problem. Open the cover; add the bleach; leave the cover open all night; close the cover in the AM if you wish.

2. Let's find out what's actually in your pool: pool store testing ranges from good to truly awful, with awful much more common than good. Test kit links below.

3. Your pH is high enough to be problem. Read the muriatic acid info page in my signature, get some MA; lower your pH to 7.6 or so.

4. Tell us more about your pool; complete the pool chart.

5. You have no stabilizer, according to the pool test. You need some. List EXACTLY what chemicals you have on hand. You may have something we can use.

Good luck!

Ben

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+ Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) / phenol test kit, or if available at YOUR Walmart (check availability (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668)), get the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit, which is compatible with the Taylor K2006. Test the pool as soon and you can, and post the results. If you get the 6-way kit, ALSO test the water you FILL the pool with, especially if it's a well, and post THOSE results as well. (The HTH is the best available kit you're likely to find locally, but it's not the K-2006. It can only provide rough measurements chlorine levels above 5 ppm, and it measures "TOTAL" hardness, rather than "CALCIUM" hardness, which is not ideal.)

+ Having a good test kit makes pool care easier for EVERYONE. A good test kit means a kit that can test chlorine from 0 - 25 ppm, pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, and stabilizer with reasonable accuracy. Test strips (AKA 'guess-strips' ) do NOT meet this standard. Some pool store testing is accurate; most is not. The ONLY way you'll know whether your pool store is accurate or bogus, is by testing accurately your own self. On the other hand, pool store 'computer' dosing recommendations are NEVER trustworthy -- ignore them. They are designed to sell more chemicals than you need, and WILL cause many pool problems.

+ We recommend the Taylor K-2006 test kit, which meets the requirements above, for many reasons. The HTH 6-way drops kit is a great starter kit, and is compatible with the K2006 (it's made by Taylor). There are a few alternatives; for example Lamotte makes an FAS-DPD kit that's OK -- but it costs 3x as much. But, we're not aware of any test that is better, and since we are all familiar with the K-2006 (and can help you with it) we recommend it exclusively ( Test kit info page (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16551) )

One caution for the 2012 season: Amazon does not stock the kits directly. So when buying at Amazon, Amato is our current preferred seller. However, they often don't list enough stock to last the whole day, so try order mid-morning. You should expect a delivered cost under $60 for the K2006A and under $95 for the K2006C. If you can't find that, wait a day.

+ Here are links to the kits we recommend (you can check local availability on the HTH kit, using the Walmart link):

HTH 6-Way Test Kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668) @ Walmart
Taylor K2006A (3/4 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIIG/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Taylor K2006C (2 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIJ0/poolbooks) @ Amazon


+ If you need stabilizer, and have access to a Sams Club, buy their 24 pack of 1# bags of dichlor shock (www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=108822). Each bag will add about 7 ppm of chlorine, and about 6 ppm of stabilizer, per 10K gallons of water. Otherwise, order dichlor from Amazon:
Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZA/poolbooks)We do NOT recommend buying dichlor locally, otherwise, at least until you are an EXPERT reader of chemical labels. The chlorinating pool chemicals sold at Walmart, Kmart, Costco, and most other local stores are diluted blends, sometimes with copper and other products with bad side-effects.

+ It's much easier to answer your questions, when we have the details about your pool in one place. We often 'waste' the first few posts back and forth collecting information. So, please complete our new Pool Chart form -- it takes about 30 seconds, but will save much more than that.
Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)

[Barbsite]

1. Add 6 gallons of PLAIN 6% (chk %) household bleach EACH evening, till we get this worked out.
Purchased and will add starting tonight.

2. Let's find out what's actually in your pool: pool store testing ranges from good to truly awful, with awful much more common than good. Test kit links below.
Purchased and completed test with following results.
Chlorine / Bromine: .5 / 1
pH: 7.2
Alkalinity: 170
Hardness: 230
CYA: Black dot did not disappear (so less than 40 ppm)

3. Your pH is high enough to be problem. Read the muriatic acid info page in my signature, get some MA; lower your pH to 7.6 or so.
Test kit indicated pH at 7.2

4. Tell us more about your pool; complete the pool chart.
Pool chart completed and submitted

5. You have no stabilizer, according to the pool test. You need some. List EXACTLY what chemicals you have on hand. You may have something we can use.
We have the following:
BG Balancer - 2 lbs
hth Clarifier - 2/3 qt
BG Lo & Slo - 2-3 lbs
L Alkalinity Up - 8 lbs
BG Maintain Balance Pak 100 - 8 lbs
About 11 packets of shock

THANK YOU SO MUCH for helping with this. It is very much appreciated.

[PoolDoc]

BG Balancer - 2 lbs => need EXACT product name; not sure what this is.
hth Clarifier - 2/3 qt
BG Lo & Slo - 2-3 lbs => pH minus -- sodium bisulfate.
L Alkalinity Up - 8 lbs => baking soda.
BG Maintain Balance Pak 100 - 8 lbs => also, baking soda.
About 11 packets of shock => need EXACT product name; it may or may not be OK to use.

[Barbsite]

OK – Sorry I used some existing notes and didn’t realize I didn’t have all the info – so brought all products up to by my computer – and this is the updated listing.

BioGuard Balancer Lo and Slo granular treatment for lowering pH – 1 lb
BioGuard Maintain Lo and Slo granular pH decreaser – 4 lbs
BioGuard Balance Pak 300 for raising calcium hardness – 1 lb
hth Super Concentrated Clarifier –1/2 quart
hth Super shock ‘n swim – 7 1-lb packets
BioGuard Maintain Burnout 35 fast dissolving shock – 4 1-lb packets
Leslie’s Alkalinity Up Adjuster – 8 lbs
BioGuard Maintain Balance Pak 100 - 8 lbs

Updated Actions:
Last night:
- Cleaned filter
- Added 6 gallons of 6% bleach
This morning:
- Retested water for chlorine/bromine*
- Used net and cleaned off larger pieces of white stuff
- Vacuumed gray stuff in bottom of pool
- Brushed pool
- Cleaned filter again
- Will close cover shortly
*Initial reading showed .5/1, but I left the sample in the container for a long time and later noticed that the water color changed to a darker yellow. Is this significant? Is the reading only valid initially?

Additional information that might be helpful. The pump is as old as the pool (about year 2000) but last year put in a new impeller (sp?). The suction when cleaning the pool seems low – but overall seems OK. We are wondering if something is clogging the line that is used for cleaning/skimmer. My husband is going to try running the pump on high without the filter and closing the other lines to see if it helps.

[Barbsite]

Additional updates. We ran the pump on high without the filters and the pressure seems good. We are going to order new filters (large, medium, small) today. It appears that the filters are hindering the pressure significantly. The filter is a few years old. I will also order the better test kit.

[Barbsite]

Another Update -

SUNDAY A.M.
Checked all chemical levels except CYA using hth 6 way kit (kit only has 2 doses for CYA so waiting to do this again)
- Chlorine/Bromine: 2 / 4
- pH: 7.2
- Alkalinity: 160
- Hardness: 240
Also used hth test strip as a comparison -
- Free Chlorine/Bromine: 0/0
- pH: 7
- Alkalinity: 150
- Hardness: 200
- CYA: 0
Brushed pool
Used net to clear off anything on the surface
Closed cover during day

SUNDAY P.M.
In evening added 6 gallons of bleach

MONDAY A.M.
Pool water is very clear and clean (small amount of white stuff and debris on surface)
Checked all chemical levels except CYA using hth 6 way kit –
- Chlorine/Bromine: 1 / 2 initially, but if I wait 5 min it shows 2 / 4
- pH: 7.2
- Alkalinity: 160
- Hardness: 260
Also used hth test strip as a comparison -
- Free Chlorine/Bromine: 0
- pH: 7.5
- Alkalinity: 180
- Hardness: 200
- CYA: 0

IS IT SAFE TO SWIM IN THE POOL? We have someone from out of town here today and they would like to swim (2 adults, 1 baby)

[PoolDoc]

Your chlorine is too low, so you'll need to add bleach before & after each use. Your PF is 5, so 1 gallon of 6% household bleach will add (5 x 0.5 lbs Cl2/gal 6%) about 2.5 ppm of chlorine to your pool.

Add 1/2 gallon 15 minutes before swimmers enter, and after they leave. Also if it's sunny, add 1/4 gallon every hour during use. If you can add via the skimmer, that would be best -- just keep swimmers away from the returns for 15 minutes after you add, so their swimsuits don't get 'white-spotted'.

BUT . . . you need to get some CYA in that pool. Dichlor is the easiest way. I've copied some info on that, below.

Other than that, you need to keep adding large doses of bleach at night, till you can hold chlorine levels overnight. If there are any tabs in the feeder, it would be best to remove them. Bleach in the skimmers is not likely to cause a problem, but it's better to be safe.

Also, you should detergent clean your filter when you get a chance. With those System3 beasts, you'll need quite a bit of TSP and a BIG garbage can, but it needs to be done. Here are the instructions: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?18044 . Remember, you also need to read the S-3 manual: http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/System3SMOM.pdf . And, you'll need a helper to lift those cartridges in and out of place without damaging anything!

If you want to do a chlorine demand test, to see how much more bleach it's likely to take, here are instructions for that:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16973

Ben

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+ If you need stabilizer, and have access to a Sams Club, buy their 24 pack of 1# bags of dichlor shock (www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=108822). Each bag will add about 7 ppm of chlorine, and about 6 ppm of stabilizer, per 10K gallons of water. Otherwise, order dichlor from Amazon:
Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZA/poolbooks)We do NOT recommend buying dichlor locally, otherwise, at least until you are an EXPERT reader of chemical labels. The chlorinating pool chemicals sold at Walmart, Kmart, Costco, and most other local stores are diluted blends, sometimes with copper and other products with bad side-effects.

[Barbsite]

I ordered and received the dichlor from Amazon: Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs. How do I add this - a little each day or a lot initially or ?

We also purchased new large and medium filters. The medium filter has arrived but the large filter is estimated to be delivered next week. I had cleaned our existing filter with a special soap purchased from the pool store about a month ago, but we decided that the filters probably needed replacing, possibly because last year my husband used a power washer on them. Regardless of the reason, the filters don't seem to be working well.

[PoolDoc]

2 lbs (4 cups) at a time will add 5 ppm chlorine doses to your pool, and 4 ppm CYA doses. Just use the dichlor to add chlorine.

Power washers will definitely destroy cartridges. You don't need a special soap; the cartridge makers all recommend TSP. Full instructions here:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?18044-Cleaning-your-Cartridge-Filter-wiithout-Damaging-It!