New to Pools/Spas

[twizted1]

Joined here to be able to post if I need questions answered. I've read quite a few threads and am attempting to get my in-laws pool balanced (inflatable ring, vinyl pool, 3200 gallons) using the BBB method. Lots of good information found here. From the recommendations here, I've bought a Taylor K-2006a test kit and the chemicals (bleach/dichlor/muriatic/baking soda/etc) needed to get their pool up and running.

All of it should come in handy when I get a hot tub installed and running at my house (although i think the recommended levels differ a bit from what I've seen).

[CarlD]

Hi twizted1!
What recommended levels have you seen?

Carl

[twizted1]

What I've seen (and have in my notes for starting the hot tub up later this year) are:


Water Chemistry

-- HOT WATER GUIDELINES --
-- NOT FROM POOLSOLUTIONS or POOLFORUM --
-- PoolDoc --

CH below 100 ppm: raise to ~150 ppm. Otherwise note it.
TA ~80 ppm to start fine tune from there
Baking Soda - raise
Acid/Aeration method - lower
~8 oz Dry Acid lowers TA by 100 ppm in 350 Gal Tub
If you lower your TA, you may need to raise your CH to compensate.
pH between 7.2-7.8 (7.0 - 8.0 Min/Max)
Aerate - Raise pH
Acid - lower it.
Add ~50 ppm Borate on startup (Borox/Acid or Gentle Spa)

Sanitation
fresh fill - Dichlor until you get to ~30 ppm CYA (30 min K-2006 test kit will measure)
Then Clorox Unscented 6% bleach
FC drop DO NOT let it get to Zero for any length of time
3-6 ppm, min 1 ppm, shock 12 ppm once a week
Check Chlorine Demand - keep it low

I am using numbers from the Beginner's Guide to Pool Chemistry here for the in-laws pool.

[twizted1]

I had a chance to try out my K-2006a kit last night and again this morning to test the in-laws pool. They had originally filled it last weekend and left city water in it all week with very little to no chlorine in it. The bottom felt a little slimy on 7/25, so enough shock plus was added to get to 20 ppm FC (estimated via poolcalculator at 1 lb of dichlor).

Date - Time
7/26 - 7:30 pm
7/27 - 6:30 AM

pH - 7.8 - 7.6
FC - 14 - 13
CC - .5 - n/a
TA - 80 - 120
CYA - <30 - Disappeared at the VERY top of the tube ~20
CH - 20 - 20

pH was overshot with Borax, originally tested at <7.0 and added Borax 3 times to get to 7.8, after 2nd time adding Borax, pH read 7.0. Apparently I got impatient and tested too soon as I added less Borax the last time.
FC was at 6 ppm and dichlor was added (after pH was "balanced") to get to shock level (again) and see how much FC was used overnight.
CC wasn't checked this morning (was running late for work and ran out of time to test).
TA was adjusted using Baking Soda, added twice. First reading was 50 ppm and then 80 ppm (all wasn't in solution and mixed well yet apparently either), no further additions were made.
CYA has been added via dichlor (Aqua Chem Shock Plus, 58.2% Sodium Dichlor..., 41.8% other ingredients)
CH have not added calcium, but have calcium plus (iirc) on hand if needed.

[twizted1]

After noticing this edit:


Last edited by PoolDoc; Yesterday at 05:20 PM. Reason: edit to make clear these are HOT TUB guidelines and NOT our recommendation!

Does poolforum have recommendations for water chemistry on a hot tub that are different from these? Or does poolforum not have any information on hot tubs?

[PoolDoc]

I try to avoid dealing with spas.

The bather load to gallons ratio, plus the light of sunlight, plus the high temperature mean that successful spa operation is much harder and much less certain than pool ops. Ironically, spa owners tend to be much less 'train-able' since they intuitively assume that "smaller" = "easier than a pool".

I realized this summer, I'm going to have to make some changes because attached spas have become so common. But, it's doubtful we'll embrace standalone spas. I'd rather we focus on what we can do very well and not get involved in doing what nobody can do exceptionally well.

So I have my opinions about those recommendations (they clearly incorporate at least one of my ideas -- aeration to strip alk), but I don't have the experience to know if I'd be right, or whether Nitro is right. And, I have no plans to go seek that experience.

So my main goal was just to make sure no one reading this thread later, assumed we were recommending or endorsing (or rejecting!) those recommendations. Ironically, I see that the edit I was trying to make, does not appear. So, I'll fix that.

[twizted1]

In trying to help the in-laws setup their pool (and subsequently get myself some practice with adjusting water chemistry for setting up our hot tub), I worked last night on getting the chemistry balanced in their pool.

A little history, they filled up their pool last week (Thursday/Friday), but didn't add any chlorine to it. I had my K-2006a test kit already, but didn't get to their pool until yesterday to do any testing. On the 25th, the bottom felt somewhat slimy/slick and 1 lb of Aqua Chem Shock Plus (58.2% sodium-dichlor, 41.2% other ingredients) was added to get their pool to 21 ppm (pool calculator estimate) to begin shocking the pool (and add CYA). Last night, I tested the pool and found the following:

Date - 7/26 - 7/26 - 7/27
Time - pre-adjustment - 7:30 pm - 6:30 am

pH - <7.0 - 7.8 - 7.6
TC - nt (not tested) - nt - nt
FC - 6 - 14 - 13
CC - nt - 0.5 - nt
TA - 20/50 - 80 - 120
CYA - <30 - <30 - ~20
CH - 20 - nt - 20

Their pool was filled with city water (chlorine rather than chloramine iirc from my time with salt water fish tanks) and left as they were told that city water would be good in the pool for a week with no chemicals.

pH - I originally checked the pH last night, it was below 7.0, added borax (all addition estimates were from the pool calculator) to get the pH from 7.0 to 7.5 (11 oz called for iirc, ~8 oz added) and allowed it to mix while I did the other tests, later it was still below 7.0, added another ~8 oz of borax and allowed it to mix again. After that addition had a chance to mix (so I thought), it showed 7.0, added another ~8 oz of borax, which after all was said and done, I tested the pH at the end of the night at 7.8. A little high, but within range.

TA - TA was originally 20 ppm, baking soda was added ~16 oz at a time 3 times, allowing it to mix well (again, so I thought), which took it to 50, then 80 and finally to 120 when tested this morning (final addition after it hit 80 to get it to around 100).

CH - tested at 20, no additions made as I don't believe that CH has much effect on vinyl pools. Calcium increaser (I think) is on hand, should it be needed and can be added. I'll wait on the more knowledgeable people here to correct me on CH requirements before I add any.

CYA - checked at <30 (new pool, no dichlor added before the 1lb), CYA introduced by the addition of the Aqua Chem Shock Plus (2 - 1lb packages on hand, will replace that with the Poolbrand quick dissolving shock from Sam's Club as recommended when the 2 lbs are used). Tested after the FC was rechecked (and Shock Plus added again), the dot disappeared just as the meniscus rose above the top of the tester (estimated at 20 ppm or less). Will continue to use dichlor (albeit the recommended brand) until in the 40-50 ppm range.

FC - the pool was shocked to ~21 ppm on Wed night. Checked last night it was at 6 ppm. After all adjustments were made, Shock Plus was added to bring it up to 14 ppm and left covered overnight. This morning the FC was 13 ppm.

CC - Checked last night prior to adding Shock Plus again, it was 0.5 ppm. Was not checked this morning as I ran out of time testing prior to work. I'll test it this evening when I get over to their house from work.

With all that said, am I at least headed in the right direction with this pool? I'd definitely like to make sure that the pool is safe for my son to be playing in it, before they start letting him into it!

[PoolDoc]

"Aqua Chem Shock Plus" is a hodge podge product, 1/2 dichlor and 1/2 mess. It has 3 other ingredients besides dichlor. One of those ingredients MAY be a persulfate oxidizer . .. and we've seen seeing some allergy problems where those are used. Almost certainly alum -- aluminum sulfate -- is present.

I'd recommend using those 2# to scrub your toilet (not all at once!) and not putting any more in your pool.

As you suspect, you do not need to worry about CH; otherwise, you seem to be on track.

[twizted1]

"Aqua Chem Shock Plus" is a hodge podge product, 1/2 dichlor and 1/2 mess. It has 3 other ingredients besides dichlor. One of those ingredients MAY be a persulfate oxidizer . .. and we've seen seeing some allergy problems where those are used. Almost certainly alum -- aluminum sulfate -- is present.

The bad part being, 1.5 lbs is in the pool now....


I'd recommend using those 2# to scrub your toilet (not all at once!) and not putting any more in your pool.

Got it! Will get the recommended shock from Sam's Club tonight on the way home.


As you suspect, you do not need to worry about CH; otherwise, you seem to be on track.

Glad to hear that! Now hopefully I can keep it on track.

[PoolDoc]

Well, apparently lots of people use the Shock Plus without serious problems; hopefully, your family will be among those.

[twizted1]

I hope that my family is among those it doesn't affect.

Tested the water again this evening. The pool does get full sun from about an hour after sunrise to an hour before sunset.

pH - 7.6
FC - 2.5
CC - 0.5
TA - 160
CYA - ~20

The pool was treated with dichlor (recommended brand from Sam's club) up to 15 ppm, will test out again in the morning to verify it isn't losing 1 out more ppm overnight and has .5 or less cc. With the comments received here, I'm feeling more confident in achieving good water chemistry and having a clean safe pool at the in-laws!

Thanks for all the information that is shared here!

[PoolDoc]

Sounds like you're on your way!

[twizted1]

And today's results

pH -7.4
FC - 12 (dosed to 15 prior to sunset last night)
CC - 0.0
TA - 150
CYA - ~25

Is it normal for TA to float a bit? Such as ours going from 160 to 150, or is it a function of the TA being in the range of 150-160?

[PoolDoc]

With the Taylor K2006, the calcium and alkalinity test error ranges are 10 - 15%. Your variation is WELL within that value. But, yes, even apart from testing imprecision, TA tends to wander a bit.