something on the bottom of the pool

[bjaeram]

This is the first summer I have had a pool so bear with me. It's been great so far, crystal clear, no problems at all.

We had a bad storm last Friday and ended up with a bunch of debris, leaves, ect in the pool. I think this is where the problem started. I cleaned all that out. Vaccumed a couple of times. It looked clean. The water was clear the whole time.

The last several days I've noticed what looks like dirt on the bottom of the pool. Yesterday I vaccumed it all up and left the filter off all night. Today when I woke up it was still clean and clear. I turned the filter back on and after a few hours I entire pool floor is covered in a brown dirt like substance. It's little patches even distributed around the entire pool floor. It is easily stirred up into the water if you touch it. The water itself is still clear. What is this stuff?

Hubby thinks it's some kind of algae but I'm not sure. Would algae show up when the pool wasn't moving as opposed to when I turned the pump on?

I don't really think it's just dirt, it comes back to quickly after I vaccum and no one was in the pool today to track anything into it. Could my filter be pumping sand into the pool? It never has before. It just seems weird that it's even distributed all over the bottom of the pool.

I have also noticed under our Wedding cake steps the water is kind of gross. The walls and floor are really dirty. I'm sure that is from no circulation under there. Could that have anything to do with it? How do you keep that area clean.


background- 27 foot round above ground pool. Sand filter. I've been using liquid chlorine and chlorine pucks. That's all that's been added for several weeks.

[bjaeram]

Oh and one more question, is it safe to swim in the pool if this is algae? I have a couple people coming over to swim. I just put two gallons of chlorine 12% in to see if that helps at all.

[aylad]

Algae in itself is not dangerous to swimmers. However,if algae is growing that means the chlorine levels are not high enough to kill the algae-- and if they're not killing algae, they're also not high enough to kill other stuff in the water, like bacteria and viruses. If you could post a set of water test results, it would help us diagnose the problem better. Also, what size pump and filter do you have? Do you see anything blowing out of the returns when the pump is on?

[bjaeram]

I don't have one of those test kits yet. The chlorine was very purple still on my dip stick this morning. I'm going to take it to get tested later.

When I did turn the pump on today there was a big cloud of brown coming from my return jet. I backwashed and when I turned it back on I did not have that.

As far as the size of the pump/filter i have no idea.


I just took a bunch of pics so let me see if I can figure out how to put them on here.

[bjaeram]

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/bjaeram/pool/

This is the only way I know how to share pics. If someone can tell me what kind/size of pump I have that would be great so I know when people ask me.

The stuff is in the bottleis the water I got when I held it in front of my return....gross

It's hard to see but I tried to take pics so you can see the stuff on the bottom of the pool too.

[bjaeram]

So I went to two different pool stores and got completely different answers and I still have NO idea what to do. Someone please help me!

Store 1- They said it looks like algae but they don't test for algae. He told me to shock, pour in a bottle of algecide, shock again, vaccum. He was about 16 so I went for a second opinion.

CYA 93
total chlorine 8.5
free chlorine 8.5
ph 8.2
alk 214
hardness 245


Store 2- Said it's iron and my ph is too high. They said use iron out and acid

CYA 29
fc 10.88
tc 11.76
cc .88
ph 8.4
alk 188
hardness 258
iron 5.2
total dissovled solids 900
saturation index 1.1

So same pool water, taken at the same time, very different results and totally different recommendations. Someone please help!!!!

[Watermom]

This is why we tell people they need to be able to test their own water. If you had gone to 5 different pool stores instead of 2, you most likely would have gotten 5 different reports and recommendations.

Have you ordered the Taylor K-2006 yet? If not, you really need to do so. In the meantime, see if your Walmart has an HTH 6-Way test kit (not strips). If not see, if they have an OTO/Phenol Red test kit (yellow and red drops).

Tell us exactly what all you have used in your pool -- meaning ingredients and not just "shock."

Please put your pool's information in our pool chart. It makes it easier for us to help.

Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)
Pool Chart Results (http://goo.gl/PXaLu)

[canucksdownsouth]

Are you sure it's not sand? If it's sand, the laterals in your filter just need to be replaced, no?

[bjaeram]

I bought the HTH kit last night and tested this morning. I have a really hard time reading the color differences on the yellow so I'm not sure how accurate I am. They just all kind of look the same to me. I had my 8 year old help for a second opinion...

CL 5 (however I did a strip too just to double check myself at I only got 2 on that, I'm not sure what that means)

Ph 8.2

Alk 190

Hardness 390

CYA 40

I have been using liquid sodium hypochlorite 10% (2gallons every week to shock) and trichlor 92.4% pucks floating.

That is all I had been putting in for a few weeks.

The one pool store gave me some algae stuff (Biogauard copper 3.3%) and I put a bottle of that in yesterday. It's supposed to stay in for 24 hours then I'm supposed to vaccum. Today the pool looks about the same if not a little bit cloudy which I'm assuming is from the Biogaurd.

As far as it the question about it being just sand.....I'm not sure it could be. I initially thought that is what it was honestly. I haven't had this problem until recently and I've not damaged the filter. Could a lateral go bad if nothing has happened to it? After I backwashed the return water was clear so that is another reason I thought it probably wasn't sand.....I really don't know though.

I'll go fill out those charts. I really appreciate any help! Thank you so
much!

How do I find my PF user ID. It's required for the chart and I can't find it. I tried to click on profile at the top and got a message that says I don't have permission.

[Watermom]

Your PF user ID is just your forum user name.

If you get a chlorine reading of 5 from the HTH kit (which is an OTO chlorine test), then that means your chlorine is at 5 or higher. Dilute your sample and test again to see if you can get a closer reading. Info about dilution here: Testing Without a Good Kit (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/how-to-test-your-pool-without-a-good-testkit.html )

A pH of 8.2 is too high but, if your chlorine was high when you tested it, you may have gotten a falsely high pH reading. Retest it when your chlorine drops below 5ppm.

Your TA is also high. Info about lowering alk and using muriatic acid safely can be found in these links:

Lowering Alkalinity Step-by-Step (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/lowering-swimming-pool-alkalinity-step-by-step.html)

Using Muriatic Acid Safely (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?13111-Using-Muriatic-Acid-to-Safely-Lower-Your-Pool-s-pH.html)

Your CYA is good at 40 so I would discontinue the pucks. (If you have some in the floater, go ahead and let those finish dissolving.) By the way, what are the ingredients on those trichlor tabs?

Don't put any thing else in the pool right now other than the liquid chlorine and the muriatic acid. No more algaecide.

Have you been using any cal-hypo to chlorinate with? Why is your calcium hardness so high? Run the TA and CH test on your fill water.

As far as the lateral in the filter --- I'm going to let someone else answer that part of your question. Hope this helps.

[bjaeram]

Thank you!

I have well water so the PH, alkalinity, and hardness are always high. I got them down initially but I've topped off the pool a couple of times and need to work on that again. I have not added anything calcium.

Did you look at my pictures? do you think that is algae? Do you recommend just adding lots of chlorine to get rid of it if it is?

[aylad]

The most reliable way to tell if it's algae is to measure your chlorine at night, and again in the morning, and compare the two readings. If you've lost more than 1 ppm of chlorine during the night, then you probably have algae. It's hard for me to tell from looking at your pics, but if you have brown stuff blowing from the returns I'm betting that you have sand blowing back into the pool, not algae. This can happen if the laterals are damaged, if your pump is oversized for your filter (take a look at that label on the side of the motor and see what horsepower it says it is), if you've gone too long without backwashing, or if your multiport gasket needs replacing. Do you have a working pressure gauge on your filter? Does it rise when the pump is running? When is the last time you backwashed the filter? After you backwash, do you run it for a minute or so in "rinse" mode before going back to "filter"?

Janet

[bjaeram]

I swept it all out today, backwashed the filter, added acid and two gallons of chlorine...It's looks good now but we'll see in the morning. It was hard to sweep because if I didn't do it very slowly the stuff on the bottom turned to a cloud of dust and dispersed in the water. I think part of my problem is the stuff gets stirred up in the water then settles over night so I'm not actually getting it all out of the pool when I vaccum. I have wedding cake steps and I moved those to clean under them and it was a huge cloud of brown under there.

I do not having a working pressure guage. It looks like it has water in it. How do you know if the multiport gasket is bad? I do know the little clear thing on it where you can see the color of the water when you backwash leaks really bad when I backwash. After I backwashed and rinsed I did not see any brown blowing back in from the return.

[PoolDoc]

Bjaeram pics:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rXUtY5k4Chg/T_-ZXwHZg1I/AAAAAAAADkI/pQaoJAVtp_M/s800/IMG_4046.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h_MRxJbQPew/T_-ZrMuRD1I/AAAAAAAADks/bYt9EsMyjpE/s800/IMG_4050.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zL3ykxPiQOc/T_-ZsUF-bZI/AAAAAAAADkY/bIFmgodBtQQ/s800/IMG_4052.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Looks like it might be algae -- take a picture with the pump off, and the water still, if you want us to make a better guess.

Meanwhile, post another set of test results, after all that acid.

And, finally, remove ALL chemicals from the skimmer, if present, and begin adding 2 gallons of plain 6% bleach to your pools skimmer each evening. That will help your pool, AND clean any live algae out of your filter.

[aylad]

If you look at the top of the multiport handle, sometimes water will leak out around the handle if the gasket is bad. It also only takes a few minutes to take the handle and top off the multiport and actually look at the gasket--it will be obvious if it has twisting or tearing and needs to be replaced.

If you had a "huge cloud of brown" under your steps when you moved them, then the brown settling you see might just be dirt or dead algae. Again, the only way to tell for sure would be the overnight chlorine test, as I described above. Do you see any of this on the sides of the pool, or just on the bottom? Do the sides of your pool feel slippery?


Janet

[bjaeram]

It's all back this morning. I don't know if it grew back or just settled. I kind of think just settled.

So if it is just dirt or even dead algae how do I get it out? Vaccuming even as carefully as I can stirs it up into the water.

It is only on the bottom and the steps. None on the sides of the pool. It does not feel sllimy at all. I tried to get some off of the steps to put in a container so I could look at it better and take a picture of it and I couldn't get any. I barely touch it and it just disolves. I tried to get it under my finger nail too and just can't get it.

I'm getting ready to go out of town for the day but I'll do the chlorine test tonight. I'll also see about checking the gasket. I put two gallons of chlorine in last night but I didn't put it in the skimmer. I'll do that tonight.

Thank you for your help!

[PoolDoc]

Sound's like dead algae. I don't know what sort of vacuum you have or why you can't vacuum it up.

To vacuum it easily you need:

1. A wheeled vac head (a brush head stirs it up, unless you've got super-suction)
2. Good suction
3. Patience to move slowly enough so you DON'T stir it up.

We do it every week, on a 200,000 gallon pool.


Brush type: Poolmaster 27514 Triangular Vinyl Liner Vacuum (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007PZN5K/poolbooks)
Wheeled type, medium duty: Poolmaster 27200 Heavy-Duty Flexible Metal Handle Vacuum (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007PZN2S/poolbooks)
Wheeled type, light duty: Swimline 8150 Weighted Flex Vacuum Head, Blue (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000MOIWWW/poolbooks)
Hydro Tools 8365 8- to 16-Foot Adjustable Fluted Premium Fluted Telescopic Pool Pole, White (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN//poolbooks)
Poolmaster 33430 Premium Vacuum Hose with Swivel Cuff, 30-Feet by 1-1/2-Inch (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B005SS9EB0/poolbooks)

[bjaeram]

I took some much better pictures today. I'll attach them here. The problem remains the same. I think if it's algae it's dead and I just have to try to get it out. I have a vaccum similiar to this. http://www.amazon.com/Hydro-8130-Weighted-Butterfly-Vacuum/dp/B000P6ESFW/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1342290434&sr=8-25&keywords=pool+vaccuum. If a wheeled one will work better I will get one of those. I also have an aquabug but I think he really stirs things up so I've been using the manual one. I have very good suction so I don't think that is a problem. I think the problem stems from inside my wedding cake steps. Would it be helpful to put chlorine directly in there every week?

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/bjaeram/pool%202/

The one picture has a baggie of water from the top of the pool and the bottle is the stuff from the bottom. Seems so weird that the water is so clear but this junk stays on the bottom.

Todays results

PH 7.8
Chlorine 4.5
Alk 180

[aylad]

Have you tried testing for overnight chlorine loss, like I suggested in post #12? If there's no chlorine loss, there's no live algae!

Janet

[bjaeram]

Thanks for all the help! I think I'm almost good! The vaccuming to waste is really working. It's a slow process though because I lose so much water that I have to stop and refill my pool before I can vaccum the whole pool. I can't vaccum too fast or it stirs the stuff up but at the rate I'm going it is taking a lot of refilling. I've probably got 80% of it out. A couple of more vaccums and hopefully I'll have it.

Is the key to avoiding this mess again just to really make sure I don't get low on chlorine?

I did the chlorine overnight test and I didn't lose chlorine so I think it's just dead algae that I have to get out, my filter doesn't seem to trap it.

[aylad]

Is the key to avoiding this mess again just to really make sure I don't get low on chlorine?

.

Yep, the easiest way to deal with algae is just to not let it get started in the first place! :)

[PoolDoc]

. . . so true!