Last straw...a Frog lives in there!

[kcoussou]

I have been reading your forum for several weeks now and adding bleach like a crazy person. In fact the people at Wal-Mart are questioning what I am doing with all the bleach and I'm afraid the FBI is going to show up at my door. This morning, after a downpour of rain yesterday and last night, I went to the pool to vacuum to waste. As I was there, doing my thing, I found a frog - GIANT - about the size of a man's big toe, living in my pool, acting like he owns the place.

I'm over trying to help myself. I need professional help! And I'm gonna need someone to come remove that frog!!!!

The pool was PERFECT, for the first time in YEARS, on May 20th for a party. Then we went out of town for Memorial weekend and it got HOT, like 90+ outside, and we have been fighting the pool ever since. And I am tired of pool store people just trying to sell me things.

Since I got my kit in the mail, I have the following data:
7-5 (7:00pm) Combined chlorine: 0 / Free chlorine: 0 / Alkalinity: 120 / pH: 7.6 / Cyanuric acid: 200 / Treatment: I added 17.25 gallons of bleach
7-6 (5:45pm) Combined chlorine: 0 / Free chlorine: 14 / Alkalinity: 120 / pH: 7.6 / Cyanuric acid: 160 / Treatment: n/a
7-8 (5:20pm) Combined chlorine: 0 / Free chlorine: 50 / Alkalinity: > / pH: purple / Cyanuric acid: 160 / Treatment: Just before sample, I added 14.2 gallons of bleach and determined that I should not take a sample immediately following adding stuff.
7-9 (9:30am) Combined chlorine: 0 / Free chlorine: 47.5 / Cyanuric acid: 160 / Treatment: n/a
it POURED all afternoon and thru the night
7-10 (11:00am) Combined chlorine: 1 / Free chlorine: 36 / Alkalinity: 150 / pH: purple / Cyanuric acid: 160 / Treatment: vacuumed to waste before I took sample

So, please help me. What do I do? Am I even on the correct path? My kids would like to swim this summer!
Thank you,
Kara

Type of pool and volume: 26,000 in ground vinyl lined
Type of filter and size of pump: Hayward Pro series sand filter Model S244T and Century Centurion 1.0 HP (I have pics of equipment if needed)
important: last summer I replaced the sand in the filter

[BigDave]

Big Toe - shoot, I've seen frogs bigger than my feet. And I'm not even from Texas.;)
Maybe the G-men will help you carry all that bleach, or at least catch the frog.:rolleyes:

Seriously, it sounds to me like you're on the right track, you've got your FC to shock for your CYA (BTW how are you measuring CYA?) and you're keeping it there.

Are you running the pump / filter 24x7? Backwashing when filter pressure rises 8-10psi?
How does the water look, smell?
Are you brushing the pool after adding chlorine?

A couple suggestions:
Your pH reads purple 'cause your FC is so high. Don't test pH until the FC comes down.
No need to test CYA every day, once a week is plenty.
Add more chlorine before FC gets to 25ppm.

[kcoussou]

If a frog any bigger than the one I have was in there, I would have passed out! Seriously, I do NOT do frogs!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. It helps to hear I am on the correct path.

I am measuring CYA by doing the half tap water, half pool water thing. Like this, the dot is disappearing at 80.

I am not running the filter 24/7, should I be? The water is a cloudy, light green. The algae that accumulates on the bottom is a brownish-yellow color. I am brushing the pool at least once a day. Is all this rain we are getting going to mess me up even more?

Do I add more chlorine now? Do I test chlorine everyday? After all the reading I have done, I feel like I understand CYA and chlorine and the relationship now...but I do not understand the "combined chlorine". What does that mean and what level should it be reading?

[PoolDoc]

If a frog any bigger than the one I have was in there, I would have passed out! Seriously, I do NOT do frogs!
I'm going to have to tell Watermom that her long lost cousin is posting here. ;) (Watermom is pretty much in your camp; my family tends to consider frogs and snakes part of the fun)


I am measuring CYA by doing the half tap water, half pool water thing. Like this, the dot is disappearing at 80.
CYA=160


I am not running the filter 24/7, should I be?
Yes.


The water is a cloudy, light green. The algae that accumulates on the bottom is a brownish-yellow color. I am brushing the pool at least once a day.
Add more chlorine. With a CYA = 160 ppm, you need to keep the chlorine level above 50 ppm, till the algae is gone


Is all this rain we are getting going to mess me up even more?
It will, if you don't continue to add chlorine. It will HELP, if you take advantage of the cloudy weather, to raise your chlorine level without losing chlorine to sunlight. I'd recommend adding enough to reach 80 ppm, as soon as you can. That's about 35 gallons of 6% bleach, or about 25 lbs of undiluted calcium hypochlorite. However, cal hypo will raise both your alkalinity and your calcium hardness, and that may not be a good idea.


Do I test chlorine everyday?
No. If you get to 80 ppm, you can wait a day. (Once your pool is clear, you may be able to test only 1x per week.)


...but I do not understand the "combined chlorine". What does that mean and what level should it be reading?
It's chlorine that has reacted with dirt, and formed the chemical equivalent of 'smoke' -- incompletely burned (or oxidized) dirt. Don't worry abou that too much, yet.


======================================

The problem with very high CYA levels is that it takes very high chlorine levels to kill established algae. 80 ppm *should* take care of your problem, but I would recommend ordering some sodium bromide, in case it does not. Adding sodium bromide creates an UNstabilized halogen level that can kill the algae, but at the cost of increased chlorine consumption for several weeks after. Order, but do NOT use it, till you've tried the 80 ppm. Here's the link:


Nava Chemicals 652072097 Yellow Algae Remover, 2-Pound Bottle (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BFR2I8/) @ Amazon
Tropi Clear TC-4402-1 2-Pound Yellow Eliminator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002SG7JAI/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Be VERY careful, if you try to buy it elsewhere. There are multiple version of granular "yellow algae" treatments. Some contain sodium bromide; some contain ammonium chlorine, which is completely different and not desirable; some contain bromide PLUS phosphates.

[PoolDoc]

Just wanted to add -- there's no reason why your kids can't swim now.

Just tell them to keep their eyes closed and wear old swimsuits. People are FAR more chlorine resistant than women's swimwear -- dermatologists uses 50 ppm (with ZERO stabilizer -- VERY different) bleach baths to treat even pediatric patients. However, 80 ppm of free chlorine will be irritating to eyes, if not as irritating as even low combined chlorine levels.

[PoolDoc]

And, one more note. It came up in the private support team section that I didn't warn you that high chlorine may lighten your liner. It is possible that that will happen.

In cases like yours, there is not a perfect answer I can think of:


1. Super high free chlorine offers some risk of liner bleaching, and definite risk of swimsuit bleaching, and can leave lingering very high chlorine levels which is hard on fashion swimwear.

2. Unstabilized halogen residual, via sodium bromide, can led to high to very high chlorine consumption in the weeks following.

3. Use of ammonium chloride (Yellow Out) would require letting your chlorine drop (and the problem get worse!) before starting treatment, and will render the pool unusable for a week or more, with lingering irritant chloramine residuals. (Been there; done that; had the pool user complaints!) Unlike free chlorine, monochloramine sensitization does seem to occur, and apparently results in some pretty severe effects, even at drinking water levels of MC.

4. Drain and refill, which can damage your liner, and force you to get a new one

Supplemental algaecides aren't really compatible with chlorine levels like this.

[Watermom]

Hey, Kcoussou---- Ben knows me well. I'm with you on the frog thing! I do not want to be swimming in a pool where there are critters of any sort. (Not even Kermit the frog!)

[kcoussou]

Thanks for all the help here! I am thankful!!

I just added 35 gallons of 6% bleach at 10pm. Should I test the chlorine level in the morning? Should I vacuum or brush it? Do I get a sample to test before or after I brush it?

[kcoussou]

Good news!! Frogs are dead!! (that is plural, because apparently my nemesis from yesterday had a smaller friend)
And the pool is blue, cloudy but blue nonetheless!

I needed to lower the water from more rain last night, so I vacuumed to waste the algae clumps that I found until the water level was where I needed it to be. (trying to take advantage of the free water) Then I regular vacuumed all the sides and bottom.

Checked the chlorine levels. FC is 83 and CC is like 0.5. It looks like I am on the correct path, but I am still a little confused at the CC level. Seems to me like it would be higher since something is obviously working.

So, I am thinking that all I do now is check chlorine levels, sweep, filter 24/7 and wait?

[aylad]

The CC comes down as a result of the chlorine killing off whatever it's fighting, and by exposure to sunlight. So it's normal for it to be coming down--that's a good thing!!

And you've got it--filter, check chlorine, sweep, and filter some more..... :)

Janet

[kcoussou]

My pool is beautiful!!! I can see the bottom again! Water is clear!!! We cannot swim because of the flooding rain, but it is pretty to stand there with my umbrella and admire!! Thank you all so much for helping me get there!!

But now I have another question...now what? Because my CYA is high, that means I need to keep the chlorine high, correct? Do I use the Best Guess box to help me keep chlorine where it needs to be? What about the pH and Alkalinity? Do I begin testing those now too?

You are all amazingly wonderful frog-getting-rid-of people!! :)

[PoolDoc]

Stay above 50 ppm, till 100% of your algae is gone; then follow the Best Guess Chart for normal levels.

[Watermom]

You are all amazingly wonderful frog-getting-rid-of people!! :)

Ben and Jan, we've probably been called lots of things through the years :rolleyes:, but I think this is a first for this description, wouldn't ya say? :D

[PoolDoc]

She's not talking about me! I would have rescued it, before it perished. :sad:

Or at least, before it was too far gone for some nice fried frog legs. ;)

[Watermom]

It's hard to catch frogs in a pool!

BTW, buddy, you can have my share of the frog legs! S-)

[aylad]

Ummm, I don't mind the frogs either--I have a couple of big bullfrogs that swim in my pool nightly--they're just smart enough to get out and go home around dawn :)

Oh--and don't knock frog legs til you've tried 'em.... ;)

Janet

[BigDave]

That frog was the size of a big toe, not much legs.

[PoolDoc]

Oh, I forgot. I was thinking of frogs the size of a big foot . . .


:D

[kcoussou]

Proud to say there are NO more frogs!!! Can't say thank you enough, my pool is beautiful! Looks great and feels great! So excited to have a swimmable pool! The first time in YEARS that the pool has been clear in the hot summer! Thank you all!!

[Watermom]

Yay! Now, since there are no more frogs, you can invite me over for a swim! ;)

Glad the pool looks great and that we were able to help you. Now, time to enjoy it!

[PoolDoc]

The first time in YEARS that the pool has been clear in the hot summer! Thank you all!!

I'm glad it's worked out well for you. Please do remember that something I wrote years ago is still true: it's much easier to take care of pool water, than it is to clean it up!

The amount of WORK your pool needs now is a small fraction of what it needed in past weeks, but your pool needs just as much CONSISTENCY as it ever did. Check your pool EVERY day with an OTO/phenol red kit (2 minutes!) and keep your chlorine in range (per Best Guess) and your pH between 7 & 8 all the time; every day . . . EVEN when it's raining.

If you do that this summer, you'll probably get to the point, experience-wise, where you may NOT need to test every day. But, this summer stick with it!

[kcoussou]

I am back at it! At some point in late summer, I gave up fighting it. And when I went back to it last week (my Spring Break project), I knew what to do! I have my CYA under control and just adding bleach and borax. After a week, my water went from gross, active, swamp to a pretty (although still cloudy) blue. I am working hard to keep the chlorine levels up daily. I just want to thank you for all your help last year. I feel like I know what I am doing for the first time ever, rather than just putting in everything the pool company tells me to put in! And I'm looking forward to seeing the bottom of the pool sooner this summer!