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7sanders
07-02-2012, 01:44 PM
New member here... used this forum and the pool calculators all the time with our 10' easy set pool for the last 4 years (and for years before that our 15' easy set). Now that the youngest is almost 5, we're ready to get back into a larger pool so we bought a 16' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame that we plan to setup and use for 3-5 years in the hopes of putting in an in-ground around that time.

Considering adding the Intex Saltwater Filtration System as well.

Right now we are still working on leveling the yard before hopefully setting up the pool later today or tomorrow. The biggest question we have is whether to use our city water ($$$) or our well water (very clear, but unsure of mineral content... we used it frequently in the 10' pool though)?

Supplies on hand: HTH 5 way test kit, 6% plain bleach, HTH Stabilizer & Conditioner (almost full 4lb jug), and a box of borax.

PoolDoc
07-02-2012, 02:33 PM
You might want to try the metals bucket test (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16946), before you fill your pool. City water might be cheaper than cleaning up an iron mess.

7sanders
07-04-2012, 12:36 AM
thanks for the tip... I decided to just fill it with the city water supply, however part way through my dear husband was trying to be helpful and kicked on the well water and had both going in... so I'd say we're 2/3 city and 1/3 well water.

Last night our numbers were: Chlorine 1.5 , Ph 7.2, and TA 160 (same numbers before any swimmers this morning)

I added 1 lb 11 oz of stabilizer to the pool this morning (in a sock, attached to a floating object so it doesn't rest on the liner) Also added 3 cups of 6% bleach this afternoon (we were at .5), and after a full day of sun, and a lot of swimmers, our numbers tonight were Chlorine 1.0 and PH 7.5 (didn't test the rest). Planning to toss in another 3 cups of bleach and set the filter to run another 4 hours during the night.

After a 100 degree day, our water temp went from a frigid 63 last night, to a bearable 77 this afternoon. The kids should sleep very well tonight!

7sanders
07-06-2012, 06:01 PM
On day 4 now, went out to see if anyone local had the cya reagent so I could test my CYA levels, and of course no one does, infact they were quite surprised that I even had a test kit with the ability to test CYA (geez, really? my $15 HTH 5 way test kit from Wallyworld is "rare"? That should be enough to scare me away from that particular pool store forever.)
Of course that pools store will test your water for you, so here are my numbers today (according to the pool store):

FAC 2
TAC 2
PH 7.6
TA 160-170
CYA 30-40 (surely he could have narrowed that down a little more?)
Calcium Hardness 400
TDS 500
Phosphates 300 (of course I "must" buy this stuff to get rid of those! Ya, no thanks)

My water sample was pulled this afternoon, after about 6 hours of sunlight, so I think we may have enough CYA to stop the chlorine from disappearing now.

**** My question is this: I still have about 3/4 of a cup of undissolved stabilizer granules in a sock floating in the pool. Should I continue to let them dissolve and increase the CYA level?

Also, I'm shying away from the SWCG idea for now... the novelty of "set it and forget it" was appealing (mostly to my hubby who is all about lessening the load on mom), but on the other hand, bleach is just so much more economical than a $200 SWCG! (That and a post talking about copper in the unit turning blonde hair green - no thanks I dealt with that every summer growing up... my folks must have spent a fortune on lemon juice to get rid of my green hair!)

Thanks for the wealth of info in this forum!!!! I truly appreciate all the work you put into it (I run a couple of similar forums for NICU babies and BMW car clubs, lol)

PoolDoc
07-06-2012, 07:38 PM
Actually, the "30 - 40" ppm range on your CYA test makes me suspect that the guy may actually know what he's doing, and that your test results are reasonably accurate. The reason is, none of the CYA test methods available for home or store use are more accurate than that. When some one gets, or gives, a reading of CYA = 33.1 ppm . . . I KNOW they are bogus. Perhaps, unknowingly bogus, but still bogus! It's unusual to encounter pool store staff who actually UNDERSTAND the test methods they use. You may have found an exception.

Of course, if he DOES understand, and he told you that 300 ppb phosphates means you MUST do something, means he may be smart, but dishonest! 3000 ppb would mean you might have a problem you'd want to fix; 300ppb means almost nothing!

You can continue to increase your CYA level if you like. Just read the Best Guess page so you understand what's going on. Chlorine USAGE is pretty much the same, regardless of which bracket on the Best Guess chart you're in. But at higher levels of CYA you have to add more chlorine at a time -- but you can do so less often.

Watermom
07-06-2012, 11:21 PM
If it were my pool, I'd go ahead and let the rest of the CYA granules dissolve. I think you'll be happier with CYA closer to 50 than 30.

7sanders
07-06-2012, 11:56 PM
Thanks! Will leave the stabilizer to finish dissolving.

The sheet he gave me with the results on it says that phosphates level should remain <100ppb ! Must be a big money maker for them.

Enjoying every minute of the pool, thanks so much for your input!

aylad
07-07-2012, 09:48 AM
I just want to congratulate you on doing your homework and taking control of your own pool. It makes life SO much easier when you don't have to just buy stuff from the store because they tell you you need it, without understanding why!!

Good job! :cool:

Janet

7sanders
07-10-2012, 04:52 PM
Thanks for all of the advice... Had my PH creep up above 7.8... not quite to the 8.4 on my test kit, but somewhere in between the 7.8 and 8.4. Added about 3 oz of dissolved PH Minus that we had on hand yesterday, and today the chlorine has held steady at 3 and the PH was back to about a 7.6. I'm guessing it's due to high aeration, as our kids plus the neighborhood kids have spent at least 4-6 hours a day splashing around in the pool. And the pump return into the pool really ripples the water since we don't have the pool filled to capacity. (And rain two nights in a row)

Anyway... I pulled out all the chemicals we've purchased/been given over the years and was curious if any of the following are worth keeping around?

* HTH PH Minus (I understand Muratic Acid is the chem of choice, but we already had this on hand)

* HTH Dual Action 1" chlorinating tablets (active ingred. trichloro-s-triazinetrione 93.5% and copper sulfate pentahydrate 1.5%... avail chlorine 84%)
* SpaGuard PH Decreaser (sodium bisulfate 93.2%)

And the jug of "HTH Algaeguard" is definitely getting tossed.

How do you dispose of unwanted pool chemicals? Are they safe to dump, or best taken to the hazardous waste facility?

Thanks!

Intex 16'x48" UltraFrame, approx 5000 gal

Watermom
07-10-2012, 06:12 PM
The PH Minus and the PH decreaser are both just dry acid and should be fine to use unless they list some other unwanted ingredient on the label. If it is just sodium bisulfate, that's ok. Do NOT use the chlorinating tabs since they have copper in them. You do NOT want copper in your pool. And you're right. Do NOT use the HTH Algaeguard.

I'm not sure of the best way to dispose of the unwanted stuff. Ben will have a better idea. I'll ask him.

7sanders
07-10-2012, 06:15 PM
Thank you! You are all so helpful :)

Watermom
07-10-2012, 06:57 PM
You are very welcome!

PoolDoc
07-10-2012, 09:34 PM
Disposing of them might be tricky. Lemme ask some questions:

1. Are you going to leave the pool up for winter, or take it down?
2. Are you on a sewer or a septic tank?
3. Do you have any sidewalks or concrete or roofing that has algae you'd like to remove?

7sanders
07-13-2012, 01:43 PM
1) take it down (we are routinely below 32degrees, even gets as cold at -17 here, and not sure that's a good idea to leave an Intex pool up in those conditions)

2) city sewer (and a storm drain on the property - we were told last year it was safe to empty our pool into the storm drain as long as we let the chlorine drop to 0 before hand)

3) nope, sure don't. have a brother in law with a big algae problem on his waterfall/koi pond, but I dont' think pool chemicals are safe for those expensive fish! lol)

thanks!

PoolDoc
07-13-2012, 03:48 PM
OK.

1. Keep the sodium bisulfate to use in your pool.

2. I can't tell you what to do with the algaecide. What *I* would do, if I was on a city sewer, and had that stuff, is flush it down the toilet a cup at a time. But, it might be illegal for me to tell you to do that, so I can't suggest that for you.

3. Tabs are harder. If no one in your household has blonde or gray hair, I would use them up, slowly, along with other forms of chlorine. Do NOT put them in the garbage. Trichlor can make big bangs, when mixed with various forms of garbage.

7sanders
07-13-2012, 03:53 PM
Had a friend give us their pool "left overs" extra pumps, tubing and such... plus a couple of bottles of chemicals:

* Leslie's Ultra Bright (from what I've read I probably don't need this one either)
* Aqua Chem Filter Cleaner (bottle doesn't list ingredients, this is what I could find online: )
Dipropylene glycol monomethyl ether 6%
Sodium Hydroxide 8%
nonylphenol ethoxylated phosphate ether 4%
Benzensulfonic acid, dodecyl(sulfophenoxy), diammonium salt (DDBSA) %
would love to know if this filter cleaner is safe to use on my cartridge filters (right now I just have the Intex ones)

Thanks!!

7sanders
07-13-2012, 03:57 PM
Thanks!

Seeing as how 6 out of 7 of us are blondes, I'll probably not put them in the pool :) Perhaps I'll just post them on the freecycle group and pass them along to someone who might be able to use them.

7sanders
08-08-2012, 01:49 PM
After a month of beautiful water and LOTS of swimming... we have something going wrong :(

We were only loosing chlorine during the day... starting most days between 3-5ppm, but by the end of the day we were between 1-2ppm (figured high bather load and sunlight loss - pool gets used 2-6 hours most days). I would add enough bleach to get back to 4 or 5 ppm and it would be between 3-4ppm each morning. Last week the pool started to get a little cloudy and we appeared to have a lot of dirt/dust in the pool. Hooked up the vacuum to the filter intake and cleaned the bottom of the pool (turned the filter cartridge brown). Replaced the cartridge and cleaned the dirty one. A couple of days ago the pool developed a greenish hue, clear water on top, and slightly cloudier at the bottom. I have been adding bleach 2-3 times a day to keep the OTO test kit (HTH 5 way) in the orange range. (Sorry, no Taylor kit just yet). It has not dropped below 5ppm in the last 3 days. 20 minutes after adding the bleach, I brush the walls/floor/skimmer/return etc. (ladder has been removed). It always stirs up what looks like brown dust on the bottom. Some gets caught in the filter cartridge, some must be blowing right on through and back into the pool. (Intex Type A cartridges - Unicel's are due to arrive from Amazon tomorrow).

We have had highs of 110+ for quite awhile, so the water temp has been in the high 80's / low 90's.

Chlorine orange on OTO test kit
PH was 7.8 before bringing the pool to shock levels (I understand that the PH test is not reliable when chlorine levels are very high? but it shows as 7.8 now too)
CYA was 30-40ppm before letting the final 3/4 cup dissolve.
TA is about 150

I'm wondering if I'm fighting mustard algae, or if it's just pollen/dirt/dust etc. I'm hoping that the Unicel cartridges will make a big difference. The water definitely has less of a "green/tan hue" today than it did yesterday (although, on grey overcast rainy days it seems enhances the "green" look - even the sky looks green around here before thunderstorms, especially those with hail).

I have some pictures here:

water color
http://i458.photobucket.com.KILLED/albums/qq302/ss525i/2012-08-08124158.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vxDvXMQg3zI/UCLK-5FQfnI/AAAAAAAAD2w/Qm0B6vzjthk/s640/2012-08-08124158.jpg

residual "dust" left on ladder steps after removing from pool and allowing to air dry
http://i458.photobucket.com.KILLED/albums/qq302/ss525i/2012-08-08124229.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aRueC1hspRU/UCLK-2jyUVI/AAAAAAAAD2s/8-VqFgIW3zQ/s640/2012-08-08124229.jpg

pockets of "dust" on bottom
http://i458.photobucket.com.KILLED/albums/qq302/ss525i/2012-08-08124244.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Nw9TPyJDe20/UCLK-7aXWGI/AAAAAAAAD20/6sAjfe0dCsM/s800/web%25202012-08-08124244.jpg

Thanks for any advice you can give!

PoolDoc
08-08-2012, 04:33 PM
Looks like algae residue to me.

+ Hold the chlorine in the very dark yellow / orange range for 2 more days.
+ Run your filter 24/7
+ Brush the pool completely

Let us know how it's doing after a couple of day. (Read the cartridge cleaning sticky, here:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?18044

7sanders
08-08-2012, 05:32 PM
Will do... thanks!!!

7sanders
08-10-2012, 10:21 AM
Received my Unicel cartridges yesterday. After running the pump with the new cartridge for 4 hours it had caught more of the fine tan colored dust than the Intex filter would catch in 48 hours! Unfortunately we could not run the pump through the night last night due to a power outage, but this morning the water looks so much better. there are only 2 or 3 small pockets of the dust on the floor as opposed to pockets everywhere.

I removed the skimmer basket as I found some algae dots on the arm that hangs it over the side of the pool... soaked in a bleach bath and then scrubbed with soap and water. I think it might have been beneficial having the pump run without the skimmer basket so that the intake was farther down in the pool rather than on the surface.

I also purchased skimmer socks to see if that would help catch the fine debris... it certainly helps at catching all that hair! The water is definitely still cloudy, but it is more of a white cloudy hue rather than a green/tan hue! Hopefully we'll be back to sparkling soon. Sure miss that sparkle!

And yes, next on my list is the Talor test kit :) (Still working on the DH with that one... maybe I can sneak it into the deck building budget, lol... after all, it includes power tools for him! ;-P )

PoolDoc
08-10-2012, 11:22 AM
Received my Unicel cartridges yesterday. After running the pump with the new cartridge for 4 hours it had caught more of the fine tan colored dust than the Intex filter would catch in 48 hours!

Glad to hear it.

I would definitely encourage you to get the K2006. Now that I have the pool chart working, I'm seeing a VERY strong correlation between recurrent pool problems and the lack of a HTH 6-way or K2006. They aren't cheap -- but they are much cheaper than fixing the problems people have without them!

7sanders
08-10-2012, 11:31 AM
I have the HTH 5-way (appears to be the same as the 6-way) with new reagents minus the CYA since I couldn't find it locally. What would the benefits be of upgrading to the K2006 aside from being able to accurately test higher chlorine numbers (so I can "sell" it to him)? Part of the reason DH is reluctant to spend so much on *another* test kit is that it costs twice as much as refilling our pool in the first place :) (When I fill the pool, the water bill only goes up about $28 for the month).

Thanks again!

PoolDoc
08-10-2012, 11:54 AM
You can use the HTH kit to 'spare' the K2006 . . . and I would recommend doing just that. But, without accurate FC, CH (which you don't appear to have) or CYA . . . you are flying blind, now, and next year. You do NOT have to replace the kit annually!

The fact is . . . you can get lucky, and be OK without the kit. Lot's of time, lucky is better than smart or skilled. "So, you ya feel lucky? Do ya?" (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

It's your choice of course.

But the correlation between no K2006 and solution-resistant problems is so high, I'm beginning to think that I may set a policy next spring that, during peak periods, we simply won't try to help people unwilling to get a HTH 6-way or better. I think it's likely we can help more people that way.

It's past peak, now, so if you feel like being a guinea pig test subject, so we can see if we can help without good info, I'll go along . . . for awhile.

7sanders
08-10-2012, 12:27 PM
See, now I did not realize that I did not have to replace the reagents and such in the Taylor kit each year! That would definitely make it a much easier selling point.

I did find the CYA reagent on Amazon through Amato and had planned to purchase it for next season to avoid the pool store running the test for me. I do have a Hardness test in my kit, but I hadn't been doing that test since the kit recommends only testing it monthly (last month it was at 400ppm)

I will purchase the K2006 before next season (since we are down to just a few more weeks of "pool weather") instead of refills of all of my reagents.

Thank you for all of your help!