Lime Green Water now -- Metals?

[bcdavenp]

I have an 18'x36'x3'-8' pool. 30,000 gallons. In Acworth, GA (about 35 miles north of Atlanta). I am currently at a Lime Green Water. My pool store has given up. I will start with last fall -- After a pool party here at my house in August, and I shocked the pool, a brown ring appeared around the pool where the wall meet the floor. We tried a little of everything, and then finally, pool store said metals, and stain remover + metal treatment. That got the ring, but metals did not leave. I went thru 3-4 metal treatments over the next month or so. I was not able to get the metals out of the pool when it came time to close - I ran out of money. - so..... I didn't close the pool - just dropped the water level and protected the pump and sand filter-- BIG mistake. Anyway - fast forward to this spring -- we started with a pretty much black pool -- LOTS of leaves, frogs, snakes - a real swamp. We scooped leaves - and filled the pool -- Shock, shock, and more shock. We checked and metals were still there - so more metal treatments. Pool finally got a dark shade of green. We used pool store's Green to Clean+ shock with no results. Then pool turned brown -- We changed out the Sand in the Sand Filter. shock -- Soda Ash, and metal treatment -- Alum -- At this point we reached a lime green color - but could not see bottom. soda ash -- metal treatment - and Super Floc. We are now at an even lighter green - but pool store is saying that the metals are thru the roof again. I'm having them test my 2 water sources (two spikots both from county water) tomorrow for metals coming into the pool. They are suggesting drain pool and fill with trucked in water. I'm at my wits end with this thing -- between last fall and this spring - I've dropped over $1500 to no avail. Please Help Me!!

[aylad]

Ok, take a deep breath a step back a couple of steps. Looks like what the pool store forgot to tell you is that the metal treatments don't actually remove the metals from the pool. They just keep them in suspension in the water. Also, the treatments are slowly degraded by chlorine, so it's something that you have to add on a periodic basis to keep the metals from staining your pool. OR...you can choose to remove the metals completely, but you do need to check the source of your fill water to make sure you're not just adding more. So....even though you have a large pool, please read through this sticky designed for Intex owners with well water, because it mostly applies to you, too. It will give you an idea of what you're looking at to clear the water up. After you digest this, then come back and post your thoughts, and we can help you go from there.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16946-Bucket-test-for-metals
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?17166-Before-you-fill-your-Intex-type-pool-with-well-water!&p=95155

While you're at it, please take a few minutes and fill out this info about your pool--it will help us help you better without a lot of back-and-forth posting to get basic info we need...
Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)
Pool Chart Results (http://goo.gl/PXaLu)

Welcome to the forum!!

[bcdavenp]

OK -- When I first started opening my pool -- I put a CuLater packet in the skimmer. Not real sure of results tho... It is not there now - and I have metals. I Think we have attempted 7c -- dropping it to the bottom trying to use both Super Floc and Alum at different times -- but pool store had me lower the chlorine for both of these attempts - we raised the ph tho. Little results. Still can not see the bottom. Pool store is recommending changing out the Sand for ZeoSand. I had put 50lbs of zeosand in when I changed my 300 lbs filter just a week or so ago. But they are suggesting I put all zeosand. I have one more CuLater packet -- should I put that in the skimmer? What are your thoughts about the zeosand?

[bcdavenp]

Now I can't get back to the links to allow my son to read it as well......

[Watermom]

Until your registration is completed, you'll need to log out to be able to see the rest of the forum. So, log out and then look on the homepage for the subforum called "Pool Chemistry for Intex-type Pools." The first two threads in that section are the ones that Janet advised you to read. (I assume that those are the two that you wanted to show your son.)

Hope this helps you.

[aylad]

You're going to need to keep your pH low (7.0-7.4), your chlorine low, and the metal sequestrant in the water. If you have the Culator, go ahead and put it in the skimmer--it won't hurt, and it may help!

I have zeo in my filter, just because I wanted to try it--but honestly I don't see any difference between zeo and sand when it comes to filtration--the zeo is more expensive but you have to haul less of it--that's the only advantage I see. Shouldn't make any difference one way or another with your metals situation.

[bcdavenp]

Thanks, Watermom - I was able to get to it that way.

We are currently doing a blind vacuum - to waste - to remove anything that may have fallen to the bottom of the pool with this last Alum treatment. We know it had to have dropped something - we can now see the third step in the shallow end. we could barely see the second before. Once we've completed that vacuum task, I'm going to put the CuLator in the skimmer, and see if that does anything over the next 24 hours. We'll let you know.

[Watermom]

Please do let us know about your results (good or bad) with the CuLator. We are trying to collect as many people's experiences with this product as possible.

[PoolDoc]

Your membership has been upgraded.

Regarding the CuLator, one thing we have found is that they seem to work, but SLOWLY. Actually, given their mode of action, they can't act quickly. So . . . putting a CuLator bag in for a day will have little effect. A month is a more reasonable period. That's why we've been recommending using them only under a skimmer sock, so they don't get fouled by pool goo. I'll put links below.

Also, the metal HAS to be in soluble form (ie, before staining) for the CuLator to work. So you have to lift the stains (maybe with Vitamin C, ascorbic acid; suspend the metals with HEDP and THEN use the CuLator for a month. Don't bother with the Culator now. Instead do these things:

1. Get a K2006 testkit ASAP, and tell us what your water levels are. (info page link in my signature)
2. Run your filter 24/7
3. Remove all tabs from your feeder and the skimmer.
4. Dose each EVENING with 3 gallons of PLAIN 6% household bleach, added one gallon at a time via the skimmer, each gallon spaced at least 5 minutes apart.
5. Get some polyquat (info page (www.poolsolutions.com/gd/polyquat.html)) ASAP and add 1 cup via the skimmer each MORNING.
6. Stay the heck away from that store unless you need parts; do NOT get zeosand!
7. While vacuuming, try to see whether picked up dirt is blowing through the filter, and back into the pool. If it's not, vacuum as much as you can, so long as there's something to pick up. By the way, you need a WHEELED vac head to remove floc; brush vacuums tend to stir it up.

like this one: Poolmaster 27200 Flexible Metal Handle Vacuum (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007PZN2S/poolbooks) @ Amazon
8. Get a cheap OTO/phenol red drops kit from Walmart, so you can at least tell us the pH and chlorine levels.

[bcdavenp]

ok - Pool is now blue -- but still VERY cloudy. Can only BARELY see the third step in the shallow end. Can not see the bottom of the pool. Chlorine 2-4 PH 6.8 Alk 80 I have turned the Chlorinator off. I have not had the chance to get the Polyquat -- it was too expensive at the pool store. I will order online, and have it shipped. I do not understand about the bleach and muratic acid. Please explain. How long will the process take to clear up the water?

[PoolDoc]

Please tell me which steps you had completed prior to the color change.

What don't you understand about the bleach? I hadn't been completely clear about adding the bleach, 1 gallon at a time, on 5 minute intervals. Is that what you meant?

But, I'm not at all sure what you are asking about the muriatic.

As far as how long? The only answer is, I don't know. This sort of water treatment is NOT something we have down to a science, especially when we don't control all the variables of treatment and equipment at your pool.

In your case, you've added -- at your local store's direction -- a witch's brew of chemicals, and I have no idea what they all are, or how they will interact. That's one reason we try to encourage people to use as few chemicals as possible: so we'll have some hope of predicting what will happen. When there are as many different things in your water as you have . . . any prediction is a mere guess.

[bcdavenp]

The only thing that has been done when the water changed from green to blue -- was blind vacuuming to waste, turning up the chlorinator, and putting the CuLator packet in the skimmer. I turned off the in-line chlorinator last night per your direction. I'm ordering the polyquat today. I posted a list of all the chemicals I have on hand. I also gave you readings for PH, chlorine, and alkaline as of 6-7 pm last night. I'm stopping on the way home to pick up the bleach. Do I need to raise PH? it was only 6.8. can I use soda ash to do that? or do I need to find the borax? Would a floc or clarifier help with the cloudy water?

[bcdavenp]

Update -- Pool is still VERY cloudy - but water is still blue. I can barely see third step in deep end.

Only thing done since last night was my husband did some more blind vacuuming to waste - and we added some water to the pool. No chemicals have been added. Chlorinator is still off. Readings as of 7 pm -- PH 6.8 Chlorine 2-4 Alkaline 80 -- I broke down and bought the polyquat at the pool store, after verifying it was 60% and matched chemical names to your web page.
I need to get this pool clear -- I'm very tempted to use the Clarifier I have on hand -- but I will wait for you to respond.

I hesitate to add the bleach - with the chlorine still at 2-4. I will put the cup of polyquat in tomorrow morning.

[PoolDoc]

You can use the clarifier with reasonable safety (that is, little risk that it will make things worse) so long as you do NOT exceed the label doses. It may, or may not, help. But if you don't overdose, it probably won't hurt. If you DO overdose, it can make things MUCH worse!

However, polyquat is itself a very effective clarifier. You may want to give it a day.

Do raise the pH, but only enough to be just barely above the lowest level on your kit. And, yes, you can use soda ash. However, if you do, add it in small doses to the skimmer.

[bcdavenp]

Yipppeee!! I can now see the bottom of the pool on the shallow end. I just added another cup of Polyquat to the skimmer and another dose of clarifier in the deep end. This is moving in the right direction.... Please advise if I need to use the bleach when the chlorine level is stable at 2-4?

[aylad]

You can use the bleach to keep your chlorine between 2-4 ppm. Each gallon of 6% bleach you add to 30K gallon pool will raise your FC by 2 ppm, so you can use that as a guide to figure out how much to add, based on your test results...

Janet

[bcdavenp]

YES!! I was able to get in my pool today for the first time this season!! I can see the bottom - even at the deep end -- still a little cloudy - but clear enough to get in.

When I check chems - PH 6.8 Chlor 1-2 Alk 60. I added 5 lbs of soda ash, and about 15 minutes later I added a gallon of bleach. I also gave it another dose of clarifier. I will put another does of polyquat in tomorrow morning.

Question -- at what point can I go back to using my chlorine tabs in the inline chlorinator? Also, I do have staining around the bottom edge of pool - so I know I will have to use some form of a stain lifter, then some metal-free to sequester the metal. When do I do that? I think I'm going to live with the stain for a little while, so we can enjoy the water. THANKS for the tip on the polyquat -- I really think that worked.

Very Thankful!
Beth

[PoolDoc]

Question -- at what point can I go back to using my chlorine tabs in the inline chlorinator? Also, I do have staining around the bottom edge of pool - so I know I will have to use some form of a stain lifter, then some metal-free to sequester the metal. When do I do that?

You gotta get one of these test kits, test your CYA, and tell us what you've got. The Walmart kit is a subset of the K2006, but it includes the CYA test.


HTH 6-Way Test Kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668) @ Walmart
Taylor K2006A (3/4 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIIG/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Taylor K2006C (2 oz bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIJ0/poolbooks) @ Amazon

It would be best if you could get the K2006 from Amazon. If you do, you can ALSO get some HEDP, which is the only chlorine compatible effective sequestrant. Using SMALL doses of that will help prevent further staining, and will possible lift some of your stains. The effect is temporary (weeks, not months) so it's not a permanent solution. But some of the metal well come out on your filter.

Do NOT use the Metal Free products -- all of the ones I have checked have relatively ineffective ingredients. Some can cause problems with your pool water.


Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003MYEU3E/poolbooks) @ Amazon
20% KemTek HEDP (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI22/poolbooks) @ Amazon

If you want to begin actually REMOVING metal (probably iron) from your pool water,
the CuLator product is a special patented plastic material, contained in a bag that goes into the skimmer, that can slowly take metals OUT of your pool water. We think it works, and have some evidence that it does, but not proof yet. (Not likely to be available locally.)

1 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003C5PNUW/poolbooks) @ Amazon
1.5 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004Y6RK3Q/poolbooks) sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
4 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B007AHDMTM/poolbooks) sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004XUIRQW/poolbooks) @ Amazon (to protect CuLator from being damaged by scum)