cloudy water

[mrszaff]

hi, my pool is not green anymore and I have the metal stain under control. See my post "green water"
but Now we have a cloudy deep end. You can see the drain but its not clear as a bell.Probably dead algae?
here are my numbers

FC 7.2
CC .4
Ph 7.7
Alk 70
cya 80

should I add bleach or use the calcium hypochlorite powder shock again? or something else?

[aylad]

Test your water at night for chlorine, and again in the morning before the sun hits the pool. If you lose more than 1 ppm of chlorine, or if your CC is above 1.0, then you need to shock the pool and hold it until you're not losing chlorine at night. If you haven't lost more than 1 ppm of chlorine overnight, then it's probably just the dead algae that needs to be filtered out.

Do you have a working pressure gauge on your filter? Is the pressure rising as you run the pump? I've looked at the Pool chart, but don't see your info, unless I missed it--if you haven't already, can you take a few seconds and fill this out for us so we can give you better suggestions?

Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)
Pool Chart Results (http://goo.gl/PXaLu)

[Watermom]

But, if you shock, the stains may come back. It is a vicious cycle. But, if you have overnight chlorine loss then you have something in your water that is brewing and you have to kill it. That is why once you get your metal/stain issues dealt with, it is critical that you always keep your chlorine in range for your CYA level (based on the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature) so that algae can't get started.

If you do have algae brewing, you will have to kill it and then deal with the metals and stain issues again.

[mrszaff]

this morning my my FC is 6.6 and CC 0

The filter is on 24/7 , it is still slightly cloudy but water looks blue

I can brush brown particles off the walls and bottom, dead algae or metal , not sure?
how much more bleach to add?

[Watermom]

What was your chlorine loss overnight?

For reference, in your pool, each gallon (4 quarts) of 6% bleach will add about 3.2ppm of chlorine. Use that to help you determine doses of bleach to add. With a CYA of 80, you need to keep your chlorine between 5-10ppm ALL the time unless you are fighting something in the water. Then, your shock level will be 20ppm and in a pool with metals in the water, you really want to avoid shocking the pool if you can.

[mrszaff]

'it only decreased . 6 overnight but I just took another reading and it's down to 4.4 after a very hot 94 degree sunny day so I will add 2 gallons of bleach

[mrszaff]

after adiding more bleach, I'm convinced im in a vicious metal cycle, I added ascorbic acid to see if it helps and it did, my chlorine is down to 1.6 so is it safe to put in polyquot 60 and Metalfree now?

[mbar]

You are going to lose chlorine continually until all of the ascorbic acid is used up.. This is probably not algae if you have used algecide and started to use chlorine as soon as you did...you do not want to shock for at least 2 weeks after the stain treatment or you will be in a " metals cycle". Your water can get cloudy from the ascorbic acid precipitating calcium out if the water- this will clear up with the filter running 24/7. You just need some patience. You can swim in it if you are holding any chlorine. It takes a lot of choline to eat up the ascorbic acid especially if you had to add a lot to get rid of stains. Keep your ph no higher than 7.2, and if you see stain start to come back add more sequestering agent. Remember when you add anything to your pool you will use up extra chlorine. Poly quart and sequestering agent use up chlorine...I know it seems like you will never get stain free and balanced at the same time but you wll! If you have any other questions feel free to ask!

[mrszaff]

thanks, I haven't put any algacide in yet this season,I have only shocked with bleach, and used ascorbic acid , i was going to put sequestering agent and polyquot 60 today, water looks tinted/stained but bluish and cloudy in deep end.
Is that a good idea?

[mbar]

Did you put in any sequestering agent after the ascorbic acid? THe ascorbic acid only lifts the stain from the pool surface. You need sequestering agent to keep the lifted stain (metals) in soluble form - sequestered in solution which keeps them from redepositing on the pool surface. You never get rid of the metals - we are trying to see if there is an easy way, but so far we have no sure way. So what you are aiming for is to keep the metals from falling out of solution on the surface of the pool. High chlorine along with high ph levels will cause any metals in your water to fall out of solution, therefore they will deposit on the surface of whatever it can. Please read the sticky Pooldoc has posted at the top of this forum. Let me know if there is anything you don't understand. You should have put the algaecide in the water before you started the stain treatment. After you let the ascorbic acid recirculate in the pool for at least a 1/2 hour, and you see that all of the stains are gone, then you should have added enough sequestering agent as the bottle suggests for the amount of water in your pool. Until you have done that, the stain will just come back. Once all of the stain is gone and the sequestering agent is in, then you can start to bring up ph and then add chlorine in to get it to the bottom end of the best guess chart, and continue that process until your chlorine starts to hold in the pool, which means all of the ascorbic acid is removed. If you see stains start to come back you drop the ph back to 7.0 - 7,2 and add more sequestering agent. If you don't follow these steps you will be in a vicious cycle of stain battles.

[aylad]

Even though it's late in the process, I think it would be okay to go ahead and add the Polyquat and sequestering agent. The worst case scenario is that you may have to use the ascorbic acid again, but at least now you know what order to use them in. Just watch your chlorine, because as Marie said, the acid will use a lot of it up, as will the Polyquat. Be prepared to add low amounts of chlorine to make sure there is "some", but not "a lot" of chlorine in your pool.

I know balancing metals and chlorine is tricky, but mbar is the resident expert (besides Pooldoc) on metals around the forum, so if you'll stick with her advice, she'll get you on the right track :)

Janet

[Watermom]

mbar is the resident expert (besides Pooldoc) on metals around the forum, so if you'll stick with her advice, she'll get you on the right track :)

Absolutely right!

[mbar]

aaw shucks

[mrszaff]

I appreciate everyone's input, thank you!
I added the sequestering agent and polyquot around noon. at 8pm I added a gallon of bleach because my Cl was < 2 and will prob drop .
I just took a reading and FC 7 cc 1 ph 7.2 alk 70 cya 50 I will check it in the AM again.
The deep end is still cloudy, I cannot see drain. I have filter on 24/7.
When I checked the baskets to remove insects, I noticed there is a green film gathering and green bubbles. I do not notice this on the pools surface though. Is this a sign that the algacide is working?

[mbar]

I am not sure what was in your skimmer basket. What kind of algecde did you use? Some algaecides can cause some bubbles. I will be interested to see how much chlorine you lose overnight.

[mrszaff]

We are in the middle of a of a major thunderstorm right now, the pool is filled to capacity so I dont know how this affects the water reading. I lost all the Cl according to my test , FC abd CC are less than 1. I had to turn off the filter because of the overflow.
when it stops raining, and the lightening stops I will backwash and drain the pool back down to the right level. As far as I can tell it its still cloudy.
what next?

[mrszaff]

I backwashed and a lot of green came out and I brushed the walls and pushed everything to the deep end before I drained the water to the correct level. I also added 2 gallons of bleach. No more green slime in the baskets today. I used Leslies brand poly 60 algacide yesterday. I ordered the one you recommended from amazon but it will not be here till friday as well as sequestering agent and ascorbic acid so that I have it for the season.
The deep end is still cloudy but also green today. Rain has stopped. I will take another reading around dinner time I guess.
Any ideas?

[mrszaff]

Here are my 5pm numbers I am totally obsessing and I apologize but Im on vavation today and I could cry about this pool...
FC 4.4
CC .2
PH 7.4 (might be 7.5 hard to tell)
Alk 80
cya 45 (lowest I can remember it being in years..) pool is still not clear
I can almost see the drain I think but its murky and tinted green in deep end, low end looks hazy
I also have a curalator bag in basket for the last 2 weeks. I dont know if its helping still hasnt turned a color
thanks, very frustrated....

[mbar]

Unfortunately it sounds like you still have algae. You probably didn't get it all before, it comes back if you don't kill it all at the same time. The only way to make sure that you did is to take your chlorine up to (with a cya of 80) at least 20 and keep it there until you don't lose more than 1ppm overnight. You will have to get rid of all the algae before you tackle the stains, or you will just be wasting your money and pool time. You can swim with stains, but you can't swim with algae! If it were my pool, I would take it up to shock, keep it there until it holds chlorine for 24 hours, especially that it does not lose more than 1ppm overnight. Once you are sure that you have no algae, and the water is clear - not cloudy, then you can start with stain treatment, if you have any. When you are ready, take the ph down to 7.0 - 7.2. Add enough sequestering agent for your pool according to the bottle. Sometimes this will be enough to lift off the newer stains. If you still have stains, make sure you add some algaecide, let the chlorine drop low and use ascorbic acid. Let it circulate for 1/2 hour on recirculate setting on you filter, when you don't see anymore stains you can put the filter back on filter and keep it on 24/7. After about 12 hours you can start to bring your ph up. Once it is back in range (7.2) start to add bleach a little at a time watching for stains. You want to get it up to 5 with a cya of 80. If you see any stains start to come back add some more sequestering agent. Make sure your chlorine never goes down to 0. Sequestering agent uses up chlorine, and also brings your ph down. You will have to test a lot, and keep up with it. You should then be stain free! Let me know if you have any other questions,

Marie

[mbar]

I was typing while you posted! Since your cya is lower you can keep your chlorine at about 3 - 5ppms. All else is the same!

[mrszaff]

thank you
I will add bleach tonight after testing again to be sure it is at a shock level

[Watermom]

Also, since your CYA is 45 instead of 80, then your shock level is 15ppm instead of 20.

[mrszaff]

thanks I was wondering about that

[mrszaff]

Just came home to a clear pool, YAY! Thanks soooo much! ...and I don't see any metal stains, I will try my best to keep it this way!
fc 12 cc0 water clear but I can brush particles off bottom it may be algae, not sure so I will add a gallon I think in the morning I'm all out now, lol I also back washed again, more green came out

[mbar]

Yeah! Just make sure you keep it at shock levels - especially until your backwash is not green. Glad the stains are gone!

[mrszaff]

Hi I had to leave for a few days, so I put 3 pucks in the chlorinator and left the filter running 24/7, the pool is still clear and beautiful but my numbers are off and I want to add the right amounts of everything
TC 3 CC 0
ALk 60 PH 7.0 cya 100
also, is arm aand hammer super washing soda of any use? we bought it by mistake instead of baking soda, but havent used it.
thanks!

[aylad]

The washing soda can be used to raise both pH and alk, so it would be okay to use it with your current numbers. Better get some chlorine in the pool, though, because running a pool with CYA of 100 and chlorine level of less than 8 ppm is an invitation to algae! If your chlorine has been low for more than a day or so, I would go ahead and shock the pool to make sure you don't have something already trying to bloom.

Janet

[mrszaff]

ok I will add 2 gallons of bleach tonight, how much washing soda ?

[Watermom]

Add a half a box slowly to the skimmer. After 2 or 3 hours, retest and redose if needed. A pH reading 7.4-7.6 is ideal but anywhere 7.2-7.8 is ok. For alk, we usually recommend 80-120.