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View Full Version : Water "Color" Problems!! Ready to give up!!



sbrouillette
06-19-2012, 04:41 PM
So, the beginning of summer we bought a 15X48 pool, hold about 4,500 gallons. We filled the pool with our well water, which I have learned the hard way is hard to manage. I shocked the pool and it instantly turned the same color of Dr Pepper. Drained the pool after talking to a local pool shop. Refilled the pool, with 2 socks over the hose and added metal magnet. Filtered the water for a week and a half and after trying a sample shocked the pool. We now have olive green pool water. Reminds me of lake or pond water. I did check the levels and the PH level is 8.4, Total Alkalinity 240, Cyaniric Acid 30-50, Hardness 200 and 0 chlorine. HELP!!! I have no idea what to do next!!!! On the verge of calling it quits and draining the pool.

aylad
06-19-2012, 07:16 PM
Lower your pH to 7.0-7.2, add a dose of Polyquat 60 algaecide (the only algaecide we recommend--the cheap stuff isn't the same and will create more problems than you already have), maintain your chlorine levels at 3-5 ppm, and then add the Metal magnet. Then you can do one of two things--either keep the chlorine low and keep adding metal magnet as the chlorine breaks it down, or put a trichlor puck in your skimmer and superchlorinate the water right before it hits your filter, and hopefully the metals will drop out on your filter so you can wash them away when you clean your filter.

Anytime you have metals in the water, high chlorine + high pH are gonna make them precipitate and create that Dr Pepper (or green) water. So the question becomes: do you want to try to remove the metals, or learn to manage the pool with them in the water (or drain and refill using a non-well source)?

sbrouillette
06-19-2012, 10:12 PM
I just want to do whatever is the easiest thing to do....I'm beginning to think that being a pool owner is too difficult for me to do.

aylad
06-20-2012, 01:55 PM
That decision is entirely yours....it's not hard to do any of the above, but it does take some persistence and daily treatment of the pool. Take a look at this thread when you get a chance--it was written by somebody in very much the same situation as you, and it might give you some insight into the whole process.. http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?10124-First-pool-might-be-our-LAST...name-says-it-all!&highlight=
Wish I could tell you it is easier--and it is, without metals in the water--but with metals, those are the choices you're pretty much faced with. Let us know what you decide, and we'll be happy to help you go from there.

PoolDoc
06-21-2012, 03:23 PM
On the verge of calling it quits and draining the pool.

If you want easy, you need to
1. Drain and clean the pool.
2. Get the stuff I tell you to get.
3. Do NOT refill or restart till you (a) have everything and (b) understand the plan.
4. Refill & follow the plan.

For a 4,500 gallon pool (PF=27), your costs will probably run about $250 for the test kit and chemicals, and better filter cartridges. I'm going to work on a general metals start-up guide, but I'll help you specifically, but ONLY if you are in for the ride. I don't want to start, and then have you bail out because it's not what you want. If it doesn't work like I say, and you bail out, that's fine. But, if it's going the way I expect, I don't want to be working on it with you, and then have you go, "Wait, wait, I've changed my mind!"

I've tried this with people before, and they don't follow up. My pay-off here is working with someone who will follow the process to the end, so I can understand it better, iron out the kinks, and improve it for the next person. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but I really don't want to start this again with someone else who either doesn't finish, or else DOES finish, but doesn't tell me the end story.

Lemme know if you're interested. What you'll need to do is not that hard, but it will require attention to detail, including the schedule. (In other words, you can't start filling, and then announce you are going on vacation in a week!)

sbrouillette
06-23-2012, 08:34 PM
PoolDoc- I'm in. We are beyond frustrated at this point and willing to follow your guidelines. My biggest concern is adding a lot of nasty chemicals to the water.

Are the items I need to purchase available at local pool shops or online? The nearest pool shop is about an hour and a half away.

PoolDoc
06-24-2012, 09:17 AM
Mostly online -- they may, or may not be available locally.

I'm not even supposed to be here at the moment -- my wife's family reunion is ongoing -- but I think I can get you started:

1. Read this page about taking care of your pool WITHOUT well water:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?17055

2. And then this (partly finished) one about dealing with well water:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?17166

3. Then, start ordering. You'll need
+ K-2006 testkit
+ polyquat (you can use this now, to make your pool sorta usable, till you can drain)
+ HEDP
+ Unicel cartridges (if you have a cartridge filter)
+ PAC floc
+ dichlor, unless you'd rather use bleach.
+ dry acid, unless you'd rather use locally purchased muriatic acid.
+ measuring cups, etc.

You can also do the metals bucket test, if you want to see how bad your problem is:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16946

Don't feel bad, if you feel overwhelmed by the info overload. Just do what you can, read as much as you can stand, and by the time you have the items you need, we'll get it sorted out.


Kem-Tek 60% polyquat (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI0Y/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Nava 60% polyquat (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004BFV4EQ/poolbooks) @ Amazon



Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003MYEU3E/poolbooks) @ Amazon
20% KemTek HEDP (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI22/poolbooks) @ Amazon

Kem-Tek (dry acid) sodium bisulfate 7lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000HJ7CE6/poolbooks)


GLB Pool & Spa Products 71408 1-Quart Drop n' Vac Pool Water Clarifier @ Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002KT6TY/poolbooks)


HTH 6-Way Test Kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668) @ Walmart

K-2006A (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIIG/poolbooks) @ Amazon
K-2006C (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002IXIJ0/poolbooks) @ Amazon



Feel free to buy anything locally, you can find locally. Just be VERY careful. If you buy locally use the Amazon links to make sure you know what you're looking for.

You can get all this shipped for free 2-day, if you accept the trial of Amazon Prime (~$90). Remember to cancel it, if it's not a good deal for you. I personally live by it, at Xmas (I'm a late shopper) but it's not a great deal for everyone.

This optional -- don't get it, if you aren't sure you want to try it. The CuLator product is a special patented plastic material, contained in a bag that goes into the skimmer, that can slowly take metals OUT of your pool water. We think it works, and have some evidence that it does, but not proof yet. (Not likely to be available locally.)

1 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003C5PNUW/poolbooks) @ Amazon
1.5 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004Y6RK3Q/poolbooks) sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
4 ppm Culator (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B007AHDMTM/poolbooks) sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004XUIRQW/poolbooks) @ Amazon (to protect CuLator from being damaged by scum)

Amazon Prime (http://www.amazon.com/gp/prime/?tag=poolbooks)

sbrouillette
06-24-2012, 11:32 AM
Ok, I am ordering everything that i need off of Amazon today. Here are the things that I have currently, that was sold to me at a pool store.

Natural Chemistry- Phos free
E-Z Clor Metal Magnet
EZ Clor Super Shimmer & Shine
h&t 3-1 chlorinating skimmer tablets
h&t Super Shock 'n Swim

Are they of any use to me??

Watermom
06-24-2012, 01:15 PM
Phos free -- no

What are the actual ingredients in these other things?

sbrouillette
06-24-2012, 08:50 PM
Watermom- there are no actual ingredients listed on the EZ Clor bottles.

sbrouillette
06-24-2012, 09:01 PM
PoolDoc- I followed the links and ordered the items you suggested. I am ordering the dichlor through amazon, is there a particular brand I should buy? Also, was there a link for the PAC floc? I have no idea what that is. :)

Thanks!

Watermom
06-24-2012, 09:04 PM
Here is the link for the dichlor.


Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZA/poolbooks)

Here is a link for the PAC floc.

GLB Pool & Spa Products 71408 1-Quart Drop n' Vac Pool Water Clarifier (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002KT6TY/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Blue Wave Super Floc 4 x 1 qt. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B007YUQTT0/poolbooks) @ Amazon - - 4 days to ship

Regarding your other products -- with no ingredients listed, I wouldn't put them in my pool. I'm not interested in 'mystery products.'

EDIT: to add link for PAC floc

sbrouillette
06-24-2012, 09:26 PM
Thank you Watermom! I have everything ordered! Is there anything that I can do now for my swamp water while I wait for my supplies to arrive?

Watermom
06-24-2012, 09:32 PM
Wait on Ben to advise you. He's at a family reunion and probably won't be back around much until Tuesday but he'll get back to you. Just sit back and wait on your Amazon order to arrive. Maybe take some pictures so you'll have before and after pictures. We might even like you to post them for others to see.

sbrouillette
06-24-2012, 09:54 PM
I have pictures of my original Dr Pepper colored water and now my pea soup water! Would be happy to share!

sbrouillette
06-26-2012, 03:18 PM
Ok, UPS has officially dropped off all of my items except for the Jacks Magic Pink Stuff. :)

sbrouillette
06-28-2012, 04:21 PM
Ok PoolDoc - All of my supplies have arrived. I will wait for your instructions!

Watermom
06-28-2012, 06:02 PM
I alerted him that you are ready for his advice.

sbrouillette
06-29-2012, 12:06 PM
Thanks Watermom!

Watermom
06-29-2012, 01:49 PM
Hopefully he'll get to you sometime today. He's had a really busy week and is a little behind and Janet and I keep adding too much to his 'to-do' list! Or maybe it's just me that's doing that to him! ;) At any rate, if he doesn't find your thread by the end of the day, make another post to remind us that you are still waiting.

PoolDoc
06-29-2012, 04:39 PM
I here now. Finally. I hope. Lemme re-read the thread and get it back into my mind. We've been egg-shooting since I last posted, and that tends to strip all rational thought:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iZ6PwA_TSH0/T-4SUVblF1I/AAAAAAAADZE/-4l1Esh57bw/s800/egg%2520shooting_9922.jpg

PoolDoc
06-29-2012, 04:50 PM
Ok.

Send the pictures (including current ones) to poolforum@gmail.com
Test your pool water, and post the results
and . . . then we'll get started.

sbrouillette
06-30-2012, 02:52 PM
Ok, I emailed the pictures. My results today are:
Total Chlorine - 3
pH -8.2
TA - 310
Hardness - 370
CYA - Dot didn't disappear

Water is cloudy and light green.

PoolDoc
06-30-2012, 04:54 PM
Pictures:

After filling, and adding chlorine:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UxxE9f_ATkM/T-9nHwdhfPI/AAAAAAAADcE/mJD4ocToriY/s800/web%2520-%2520just%2520filled.jpg

One week later:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1Yz8MuYpF5Q/T-9nH-EYZ8I/AAAAAAAADcI/RDdmQjC5XdI/s800/web%2520-%25201%2520week.jpg

PoolDoc
06-30-2012, 05:39 PM
You've cleared up a LOT, just with chlorination and filtration. I'm a little reluctant to start you on a process that may clear up with water faster, but leave you with a lot of dissolved iron to remove from that water.

If you're getting reddish brown sediment on the filter, I'd be inclined to keep chlorinating and filtering. If you're not running your pump 24/7, do so.

You probably realize your pH and alkalinity are high, and your calcium is high-ish. If you want to try something, that may help you accelerate the iron clean-up AND fix your calcium and possibly even your alkalinity level, I'd suggest doing that, than using all the other stuff. You can use those things later, if you have stains, or next year, when you fill.

Here's what I'm talking about. Your pH, alkalinity and calcium are high enough to precipitate calcium carbonate. In fact, I'm guessing that's already happening, as aeration pushes your pH up. That calcium carbonate is forming slowly enough so that it's being filtered out . . . and probably taking some iron with it. The conventional thing to do would be to lower the pH and alkalinity. But, that's going to re-dissolve some of that iron. If, instead, you ADD alkalinity, you may be able to drop out even more calcium carbonate AND more iron. Doing it that way will remove the iron from your pool, with no additional steps. You may STILL find, once the pool's completely clear, that you have stains. If so, we can back up and remove those.

Regardless, do these things:
1. Use dichlor, not bleach to maintain chlorine levels in the 1 - 3 range. That way, you are adding BOTH chlorine and stabilizer.
2. With a PF of 27, a bottle of polyquat contains 1.4 lbs of 100% polyquat x 27 or 38 ppm in your pool. An effective dose is 2 - 3 ppm, or about 1/4 cup. Use this every three days, till the pool is clear. This will ALSO improve filtration.

If you want to try the alkalinity removal technique, buy a box of Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda 55 oz (http://www.walmart.com/ip/19407690) at Walmart. Collect a sample of pool water in the largest clear glass container (like a water pitcher) you have. Add a tablespoon of washing soda, and mix. If the water gets cloudy, you're in business. What you can then do is add 2 cup doses of washing soda to your skimmer, in the evening, and leave the pump running all night. What you should see is a filter that's stopping up or filling up quickly, with a combination of calcium and iron. Every time you clean it, you've removed some of that stuff.

Cautions:
1. If you find that the pool is still cloudier in the AM, after running all night, skip a dose the following night.
2. After two doses, retest your pH, calcium and alkalinity, to see how they've changed.
3. You'll probably get some sediment on the bottom that you'll need to vacuum. (You probably already have some, but this will add more.)
4. Add a cup, in the first dose, and wait 30 minutes before adding the 2nd cup. If anything EXCEPT the water getting cloudier, happens, skip the rest of the dose and let me know.

Also, please fill out the pool chart, so I know a little more about your pool:

Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)
Pool Chart Results (http://goo.gl/PXaLu)

Mainly, I want to know what kind of filter you have.

Also, I looked over your chemical list. We'll figure out how to use those things up, later. But, don't use ANY of them now.

PoolDoc
06-30-2012, 06:52 PM
Hm-mh. Did you buy any Sams or Kem-Tek dichlor? If not, you may need to use some of those things. Let me work through your list:


Natural Chemistry- Phos free -- do NOT use. It's a phosphate remover, and will cloud up your pool. Unless you have reason to think your phosphate is really high, using it will only complicate things right now.


EZ Clor Metal Magnet -- an EXTREMELY diluted solution of HEDP. Specific gravity 1.01 - 1.02!! Unless the MSDS I have is a misprint, this is basically a bottle of water.


EZ Clor Super Shimmer & Shine -- foamy algaecide. Do NOT use.


HTH 3-1 chlorinating skimmer tablets - Cal hypo tablets diluted with magnesium sulfate, with STPP (sodium tri-polyphosphate - ALGAE FOOD!)


HTH Super Shock 'n Swim -- Cal hypo diluted with magnesium sulfate.


I think it's interesting that they sold you a product to remove phosphate, AND a product that ADDS phosphate! I guess that's what they call good marketing!

sbrouillette
06-30-2012, 11:14 PM
I ordered the Kem-Tek Dichlor granules and I started using it on Tuesday. I followed the dose instructions on the container. I bought the Unicel filters as you suggested. Just by using the Dichlor and new filter since Tuesday I have seen a huge improvement! I couldn't see the bottom before and now I can.

I have been cleaning the filter at least 3 times a day. The filter is usually a brown with a hint of red colored. There is a lot of stuff at the bottom daily and I am trying to keep up vacuuming it. I also added a Culator pack, thought what the heck it didn't cost too much to try!

I am running the filter 24/7.

I will try the washing soda tomorrow and see what happens!

I am also needing to add some water. Any special instructions for that?

Thanks for the help!

PoolDoc
07-01-2012, 12:35 AM
Raise the chlorine some, before adding water. Add the water as slowly as you can, via the skimmer.

sbrouillette
07-02-2012, 09:21 AM
On Sunday I added the polyquat in the am and then in the evening I added the washing soda. The water turned cloudy right away. This morning the color is still light green and I can see the bottom of the pool. The filter was full of brownish red junk. These are my levels this morning:

Total Chlorine - 1
pH -8.2
TA - 330
Hardness - 340
CYA - Dot didn't disappear

PoolDoc
07-02-2012, 09:46 AM
Brownish red gunk = iron -- a good thing to remove.

TA increased from 310 to 330 . . . but that might be testing error.
CH decreased from 370 to 340 . . . . which ALSO might be testing error.

However, since both values moved in the expected direction, probably not. I'd try again, with 2x the dose, and see what happens. Then, if it's successful again, you can decide if you want to do it 'for real'. What you don't want is to push the pH so high -- it's probably 9.0 now -- that you can't swim UNLESS it's a one-time event. So we don't want to test more than that before either going ahead, or waiting.

You probably want to read the muriatic acid sticky linked in my signature -- no matter how you go, you're going to end up needing some.

sbrouillette
07-02-2012, 10:26 AM
I tested quickly before work this morning, could have been testing errors on my part. What do you mean by doing it for real? What is all involved with doing it for real?

What are some of the issues with swimming in a pool with a high pH? I ordered the pH minus that you recommended and I do have it at home. I am not able to see anything linked in your signature but I think I know where to find it on the boards.

It is supposed to be in the 100's all week this week. I would like for us to be able to use the pool if at all possible this week. Will any of these "treatments" make the pool unusuable for any amount of time?

PoolDoc
07-02-2012, 11:00 AM
The problem is that your pH is NOT 8.2 exactly, it's 8.2 or HIGHER. Higher, above borax levels (~9) gets irritating. So, we don't want to go there.

By "doing it for real" I mean, adding a LOT of soda ash, all at once, to drop out all the calcium and a lot of the iron. That will make your pool unusable for now. We do NOT have to do that right now. It sounds like the best idea would be to try the 2x dose, to see what happens, and then use the pH minus to take the pH back to just below 8.2

We can strip the rest of the calcium and metal, AFTER the 4th. Or, not at all, if you prefer. The metal doesn't look good, but it won't hurt anyone.

================================================== ==
I don't understand why you can't see my signature, and the only way I can find out is to log in as you. To do that, I have to change your password (I can change your password, but I can't see what it is, currently).

When I change your password, it will kick you off, but I'll email you the new password. You can then go back into your profile and change it back. I won't do this till after lunch (1 pm EST). Just to verify, you can't see THIS:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TKQEK8wtVwE/T_G4XULcg0I/AAAAAAAADc8/fYFvkTN9NGM/s800/signature%2520block.jpg

sbrouillette
07-02-2012, 11:29 AM
Ok, I see now that the links are showing in some of your posts but not all of them. No need to try and fix it, I should try and open my eyes a little bit more :)

I will try the 2nd soda wash dose tonight and see what happens.

I have this: Kem-Tek (dry acid) sodium bisulfate 7lbs, how much of the pH minus should I add and when should I add it? How long do we need to wait before swimming in it after adding it?

Thanks again for the help!

PoolDoc
07-02-2012, 01:48 PM
I'd broadcast 1 cup at a time, and wait 5 minutes. Retest pH after an hour.

By the way, I was not implying testing carelessness on your part -- there is some intrinsic variation in test results.

(We try not to clutter the page with all those sig blocks!)

sbrouillette
07-03-2012, 09:17 AM
We were suprised at how much better the water looked yesterday evening! It is still green but seems to be getting a lighter green and it was much more clear.

I'm not sure if my vacuum isn't very good but when we vacuum the bottom it seems like it reallys stirs things up and then the water gets really cloudy. Not sure if I need to get a different vacuum or what. We have a wheeled one, the suction doesnt seem to be real great when we use it though.

Another question, what is the best way to take the filter out. When I take the filter out to clean it, it leaves behind a brown gross mess in the water. I shut the pump off when I pull it out, I rinse the filter out and then put it back in and turn the pump back on. Then all of that gross brown water gets shot out into my pool. It seems like there has to be a better way.

I am going to make my husband add the pH down this evening. I'm kind of scared to touch the stuff :) Do we need to dissolve it in a bucket first? Or just toss it in?

My readings this morning:
pH - 8.2
Ch - .5
TA - 340
Hardness - 360
CYA - dot didnt disappear

Thanks again for all the help!

PoolDoc
07-03-2012, 12:56 PM
It would be best to dissolve it in a bucket.

Regarding filters, if you will get 2 or 3 of THESE cartridges, you'll get much better performance, and they will last all season:

Unicel C-4607 Replacement Filter Cartridge (Easy Set Size A or C) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BNPRC2/poolbooks) @ Amazon
Unicel C-5315 Replacement Filter Cartridge for 15 Square Foot Intex B Filter (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0039X2XZK/poolbooks) @ Amazon

The Unicel's filter better than the Intex cartridges, and should last all season. One caution: many online pool company's are shipping non-Unicel cartridges, but showing the Unicel number. Do NOT purchase a a cartridge, if the company lists OTHER brands, except Intex OEM specs. (If Filbur, Pleatco, etc. are listed . . . do NOT buy. Filbur is OK, but what you'll get is almost certainly a Chinese cartridge that's even LOWER quality than the Intex OEM!).

I'll try to get a filter cleaning sticky posted in the Equipment section, today.

I'm not sure (and haven't looked) to see just what filter you have. But you should be able to flush the filter, on most newer Intex pools, by bleeding water out of first one pipe, and then the other, while the filter is open.

sbrouillette
07-03-2012, 02:11 PM
I do have the Unicel filters that I bought from Amazon.

This is the pool that we have
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Summer-Escapes-16-x-48-ProSeries-Metal-Frame-Above-Ground-Swimming-Pool-Package-Blue-Mosaic/19414900

There is only one pipe that runs from the filter.

PoolDoc
07-03-2012, 07:10 PM
1. Open the filter.
2. Open the valve that runs from the filter to the pool. Let it flush that line, out the filter opening. Close the valve.
3. Open the valve on the line that runs from the pump to the pool. Let it flush that line, out the filter opening. Close the valve.

sbrouillette
07-12-2012, 09:49 AM
Our water is absolutley crystal clear!!! I am still getting some brownish stuff at the bottom daily and my filter is almost always full of brownish gunk but the water is perfect! We are still working with the pH but otherwise it is perfect!!

aylad
07-12-2012, 11:16 PM
Now aren't you glad you didn't give up?? We are, too! Enjoy your pool :cool:

Janet

sbrouillette
07-13-2012, 09:24 AM
I am so glad we didnt give up! My next question is: how often and how much do I use the polyquat now that my pool is clear?

Thanks!

PoolDoc
07-13-2012, 09:34 AM
If you want to continue to use it, to help with filtration and algae, applying it 2x per week, in alternating doses of 1/4 cup and 1/8 cup, should work well.

But, remember, polyquat does NOT replace chlorine -- you MUST keep chlorine in the pool all the time.