More DE?

[Shifty]

I have been a pool owner since 31 May 2012. In the past 3 weeks I have successfully kept my pool water crystal clear from reading this forum. I have adopted the BBB method for the most part, with the exception of temporarily using trichlor pucks to raise the CYA to 50 ppm.

The last owner of the pool left behind a Taylor K-2005 test kit but it looks kind of old so I don't know how relaible the reagents are. Just in case, I bought an HTH 6 way kit as a supplement.

I have a concrete inground pool measuring 18 ft x 36 ft for about 24,000 gallons. I have a DE filter with an Emerson Motors 1 HP pump. I have been running the pump about 15 hours a day.

Readings as of 15 June 2012:
CYA 45 ppm
FC 2 ppm
pH 7.2
TA 70 ppm
TH 290 ppm

I have repeatedly had to vaccumm the floor around the returns. Do you think I may be low on DE and the debris is not being sufficiently trapped, thus being blown out the returns? I have not backwashed yet. The psi is slowly rising to just under 20 as of last night.

Thanks for your help.

[aylad]

Hi Shifty, and welcome to the forum!!

If you are having to vac DE from the floor, it sounds like maybe you have some damage to one of the grids and the DE is blowing through, but the only way to know for sure is to open up the filter and take a look. Do you see anything blowing through the returns?

You probably need to bump your chlorine up just a little--with a CYA of 45, you need to keep it at least 3 ppm, otherwise you're inviting algae to start. Chlorine at 2 ppm is already too low, and if you have anything at all that creates a chlorine demand (swimmers, pollen, etc), then you're already behind in the game.

[Shifty]

Thanks for the reply Janet.

No DE has blown out the returns. It is stuff like bugs and pieces of leaves. As far as I can tell, I don't see anything besides water coming out the returns. The only time I saw something other than water come out the returns was when I apparently put granular CYA in the skimmer too quickly and some of it came out the returns (I had just about 0 CYA when I bought the house on 31 May. I added 4lbs of granular CYA over about 1 hour. I thought that was slow enough but I guess not). That is why I temporarily switched to the trichlor pucks for ease of raising of the CYA.

I will add some (I'll check the pool calculator for the amount) bleach later this evening.

The walls (white) of the pool are slightly turning an "off white." Do you think this is happening because my chlorine is low? Besides brushing, are there any tricks to clean the walls?

I appreciate the help this forum provides. Without the forum, my water surely would not be clear.

[Shifty]

I just tested the chlorine and pH after a weekend of swimming and both have held relatively stable from the 15 June test results above. pH stayed at 7.2 and FC fell to 1.5 ppm. I just added two (2) 186 oz. jugs of 6% bleach. I'll test the chlorine level in about an hour or two, then test first thing in the morning to see if the level held overnight.

[Watermom]

Shifty,
Like Janet told you above, you are not keeping your chlorine high enough. With a CYA of 45, your chlorine level should always be between 3-6ppm. When you drop lower than that, algae can get started.

[waste]

Welcome to The Forum!

Here (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?9189-cleaning-a-DE-filter) is a link to some info on DE filter care and use (found in the second sticky in the Pool Equipment and Operations section).

Please keep us informed as to your progress. :)

[Shifty]

I think due to my FC being around 2ppm after the weekend, algae has started to appear on the floor and walls. The last two (2) evenings I have brushed the floor and walls then added 6% bleach in an attempt to raise FC while battling the start of algae. My CC has been around 1ppm and FC has decreased a little overnight so it seems I have a few more days of shock level (CYA is around 50 so using Ben's chart shock level would be 15ppm) to get CC less than .5ppm. My water is still clear.

I plan on vaccuuming after work followed by another evening round of brushing and bleaching. Any suggestions on how to clear the floor and walls?

June 18
Evening FC after bleach: 8ppm

June 19
Morning FC: 6ppm
Evening FC after bleach: 15ppm

June 20
Morning FC: 12ppm

[aylad]

Looks like you do have a little ways to go before you can let it drift back down. Keep it at shock level, brush after your chlorine additions, keep pump/filter running, cleaning filter as pressure indicates....it will clear up but will take some persistence.

[PoolDoc]

No DE has blown out the returns. It is stuff like bugs and pieces of leaves. As far as I can tell, I don't see anything besides water coming out the returns. The only time I saw something other than water come out the returns was when I apparently put granular CYA in the skimmer too quickly and some of it came out the returns


Do you have a multiport valve? That sounds a LOT like a multiport valve failure.

[Shifty]

Yes, I do have a multi port valve. Do you think the spider gasket needs to be replaced? The reason I ask is because I just saw that moving the position of the multi port while the pump is on will ruin the spider gasket. Wish I knew that 2 weeks ago.

[Shifty]

How will I know the spider gasket needs to be replaced? Do you have a picture of a failed spider gasket?

[aylad]

When you open up the multiport handle (it's easy to do, and only takes a few seconds), you'll know by looking at it whether it's failed or not. I replace one almost every season, and it's usually torn and scrunched up on one side.

Just turn the pump off, turn the handle halfway between two of the settings to take the pressure off, and then unscrew the screws holding it down. Just pay attention to the orientation of the top of the multiport so you'll know which way to put it back on! :)

Janet

[Shifty]

If I do need to replace the spider gasket, do you have any advice how to get the old gasket out? I have seen some posts where people said the gasket was glued down to the track.
Is it possible the grids in my filter are not coated with enough DE?

[aylad]

You can get the gasket out with a screwdriver--it's not hard, may just take a little elbow grease. Not sure about the DE question--I don't have a DE filter, but it sounds like a possibility. I'm sure some of the DE filter owners will chime in with opinions about that..

[PoolDoc]

Replacing the spider gasket is tricky. The adhesive used is hard to remove, is not available readily, but works better than the available substitutes. I've done it with moderate success, using a small sharpened screw driver to get the glue out, and silicone to put it back. You could probably try water-pump gasket adhesive, with better success.

Leaves won't go through your DE grids.

[Shifty]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'll open the multiport valve after work and see if the gasket needs to be replaced. If it looks ok, I'll try adding more DE through the skimmer. I think I read somewhere on the forum to put in a little at a time until the PSI rises by 1.

PoolDoc,
Leaves are not going through the grids. The stuff coming out the returns are particles (i.e. dirt and bugs).

On a separate note, I visited the Leslie's closest to my office at lunchtime. After reading this forum for 3 weeks, I felt smarter than the Leslie's workers. HAHA
A worker tried answering a customer's question about the difficulty of maintaining a chlorine level. The worker just tried selling the customer more 3' tabs and didn't ask about CYA levels or if the customer tested their water. I couldn't help myself so I chimed in asking if the person tested their water and what the readings were.

I think I have been reading this forum too much!

[aylad]

Yeah, once you've learned to control your own pool it makes it kinda hard to go to Leslie's and keep your mouth shut :D

[PoolDoc]

I couldn't help myself so I chimed in asking if the person tested their water and what the readings were.

It's worthwhile to try to zip it -- I've been doing this for over 15 years now, and I can assure you that info from here and PoolSolutions is NOT welcome in pool stores. Since you do want to be able to go back, you might write your item list on a piece of paper, and use Gorilla tape on your lips, before you go in the store.

[Spensar]

You have likely read it, but if you have a visible algae, after you kill it there will be dead algae left over that is very fine and is hard for a filter to catch. I will let it settle and vacum directly to waste/drain.

[Shifty]

Thanks for the suggestion of vacuuming to waste. I do plan on it but I was trying to avoid it due to the water loss. I will need to be quick about it.

I opened the multiport valve yesterday and the spider gasket looks to be fully operational. It wasn't bent or out of the track. It looked rather new.

I guess the next step is to open the filter and take a look at the grids. I don't want to put more DE in the skimmer only to have to blow out the returns. Thoughts?

[Shifty]

I opened the filter and the grids looked fine with no noticeable tears or rips. Vacuumed debris is still coming out the returns. I guess the next step is to call for service. Any idea how much a service call on a filter will be?

[aylad]

That's going to vary by area. Down here it's an hourly rate of $75/hour, plus the trip charge of $90 (but I live out in the country). Up there it's likely to be more.

You'll just have to call around to the folks that service your area and see what the going rate is....

Janet

[Shifty]

I think I may take a shot at hosing off the grids after work. I found some pictures online that resembled my grids. My grids were kind of dark with the caked on DE and possibly dead algae. The pictures in the link below resemble the color of my grids.

If after I hose down the grids and vacuumed debris still comes out the returns, what could be the problem? I was thinking maybe there were a few holes in the grids but nothing was obvious when I looked yesterday.

When putting the top back on the fiilter, is there some kind of lubricant or sealant I should be using before putting the O ring back on? I noticed a small drip coming from the T pin on the O ring after I turned my filter and pump on last night.

This is very frustrating. My water is crystal clear but I am vacumming daily. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[PoolDoc]

I'd replace the multiport. . . .

[Shifty]

Pool Doc,

Yesterday evening, I hosed off the caked on DE from the grids. Then, re-coated the grids with 9.6 scoops from the DE scooper (each scoop covers 5 sq ft and I have a 48 sq ft filter) I have. The pool was filthy as the debris I vacuumed the previous day had come out the returns. After the DE coated the grids, I vacuumed the debris and next to nothing came out the returns until later in the evening. What did come out was minimal compared to the last few days.

Logic seems to dictate I did not have enough DE coated on the grids. I think I will need to replace the grids at some point. Most of the 8 grids were not as rigid as they should be. Some were flexible at the top and I found a hole in the bottom of another. I am hoping if I replace the damaged grids, the problem will be fixed. I found the full set of replacement grids from H2O pool products for $91.99. This seems to be a good price. What do you think? Have you ever order from H2O pool products?

Would you mind elaborating why in post #24 you said you would replace the multiport? I am very enthusiastic to learn as much as I can to aid in diagnosing any potential problems that may arise.

Thanks for your help.

[PoolDoc]

Problems like yours can result from multiport gasket failure. It's possible to replace these, but it often doesn't go well, due to the difficulty of removing old adhesive, and getting the new gasket to stick.

You'd stated earlier

I opened the filter and the grids looked fine with no noticeable tears or rips.
If there were -- in fact -- no failures internal to the filter, then the multiport is the next most likely failure. I don't really trust homeowner (nothing personal; just my experience here) evaluations of their filter's internal conditions, but I can't 2nd guess their judgement.

However, replacing a multiport tends to be a "go / no go" situation: you either get it replaced or you don't. So if you replaced the multiport, you'd either fix your problems or you wouldn't. If you did, great. If you didn't, then I would say, "Well the problem almost certainly is internal to the filter. You need to check it again."

As it turned out, you later stated:

Some were flexible at the top and I found a hole in the bottom of another. I am hoping if I replace the damaged grids, the problem will be fixed
but I hadn't seen that yet, when I recommended the multiport . . . even though I suspected it might be the case.

So . . . now you've seen how my mind is working, on the OTHER side of all these posts!

[Shifty]

Thanks for the reply Pool Doc.

I am thinking I am going to hold off until next season to replace all the grids. Since cleaning the grids and adding the fresh DE, the amount of debris out the returns has lessened to the point where I will need to vacuum once or twice a week. My thinking is that since I would need to remove the grids for the winter anyway, why not just start fresh next season and not risk damaging new grids over the winter.

[PoolDoc]

Sounds like a plan!