Brown pool

[Riverpixy]

I need help. We opened our second homemade inground pool this year that we fill with river/stream water. Are previous pool of 3 years was also filled with river/stream water and was about 10,000 gallons. It started with brown water, high Alkaline and normal PH. After decreasing the Alkaline and running pump for about a week straight the water would become crystal clear. We increased our pool size to about 18,000 gallons by making a pool from a grain bin placed in ground and lined with a pool liner. We started with the same river/stream water. It has Alkaline above 300 and normal PH. We knew nothing about the BBB method. So we have used chemicals to get the Alkaline normal, added Algeciide, Shimmer, Rust and Scale out, and Trichlor Tablets. The pool was getting almost clear except the middle of the pool. All readings for Alkaline and Ph were normal. The Chlorine reading was at 0. So we shocked and added Cyanuric Acid to the pool. The next morning the pool is even more brown then when we filled it. The Alkaline, PH, and Cyanuric Acid were normal, the Chlorine was 3. I took the Trichlor feeder out as I felt the shock did something to the pool. Any ideas what to do next? We have been at this for 3 weeks. I know this river/stream water in our pool will clear, but I'm not sure why it is not.

[aylad]

It sounds like you have metals in the water, which isn't a surprise for river/stream water. If that's the case, high chlorine will cause the metals to precipitate out and create the brown color that you're reporting. Can you take a water sample to the pool store and ask them to test it for metals?

If you do indeed have metals in the water, then you'll either need to add a metal sequestrant to keep them in suspension (these are broken down by chlorine, so when you see the water starting to discolor again you'll need to add another dose) or to filter the metals out of the water by running it by a high chlorine source right before it goes into a filter, so the metals will drop out on the filter and you can get rid of them that way.

What type/size of pump and filter do you have on this pool? What are you using to test your water with, and what are your levels for pH, alk, and CYA?

Welcome to the forum!!

[PoolDoc]

The Alkaline, PH, and Cyanuric Acid were normal

Unfortunately, that tells us nothing. I looked to see what you are using, and it seems to be a strip based reader. Those tend not to be very accurate, and can be wildly inaccurate. Plus "normal" means whatever the techie dude who wrote the software for the reader THOUGHT was normal, but I have no idea what that would be.

Other comments: surface water quality can vary from season to season, and even year to year. There's no guarantee that the water you put into your pool THIS year is much like the water last year. That's one of the things that makes running a big city water utility with surface (river) water so challenging.

Read this page: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16946, and then do a bucket test on BOTH your pool water and the river water.

I don't know, but odds are the fastest and best way for you to get a clear pool is to drain and refill, but only AFTER we know what's currently in the river water AND you have a good test kit. The K-2006 is the only kit we know of that's trustworthy. If you want to wait, I was planning to run comparison tests on an AquaCheck TruTest, but not till August. Waterbear may know . . . but I'm guessing you're going to have to a get a Taylor.

[waterbear]

You need a Taylor K-2006, the Trutest is a toy. NOT worth the money it costs (then again, no strip reader is worth the money it costs).

If you don't believe me you might want to read the reviews of it by customers on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Chek-Trutest-Digital-Rdr/product-reviews/B000RZNKNW/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1). One in particular was interesting where they water was retested 5 times in a short period and the pH varied between 7.0 and 8.1 and the alkalinity between 95 and 185 ppm. In other words, the test results are worthless.

[Riverpixy]

I don't know what happened to my reply to aylad because I had all the details about my pool and what I have used. Just a brief answer to the Questions that were asked:
(What type/size of pump and filter do you have on this pool?) It is a Sta-rite (larger one) with a 1/5 H.P. pump.
(What are you using to test your water with) I was using Aqua Check strips and teh Aqua Chek reader and strips.
(and what are your levels for pH, alk, and CYA?) With the strips the Ph was 7.4, Alk - 80-100 and Cya was low to normal - all of these vary with the test strips and meter
(Can you take a water sample to the pool store and ask them to test it for metals?) I did. Pool store was no help as they just used the strips and did not even follow the instructions. I took a sample to a water softener store. They said they did not find metals but PH was 7.3 and Alkaline was 180

So I felt the Alkaline was the problem and continued to work on decreasing it. Now my pool is clear! Yeah!

Since I found this pool forum, I started to read that that the strips and Aqau chek reader were not reliable. The Aqau chek reader has been terrible and is going back! I have been reading about your TF100 and K-2006 comparison. I am going to order one of these. Which one do you recommend?

Also I see you have recommend household bleach for chlorinating? The shock I used was Calcium hypochlorite, which turned the water brown immediately. I also have Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione, which I think is better? I have trichlor tablets in my floater. What are your recommendations about chlorinating?

I like this forum and I think I will learn a lot and I really need the help. I can't get much help from pool stores around here.

[Riverpixy]

Ha-Ha. I just posted a review on Amazon. Wish I would have read that before ordering!!!! The Trutest is terrible and is going back to the store!!!

[aylad]

I think you'll be very happy with the K-2006--it's nice having reliable, accurate testing at hand!!

Bleach, cal-hypo, and dichlor are all acceptable forms of chlorine. The fact that your water turned brown was not because you used cal-hypo, but because you put in a large amount of chlorine at one time. If you'll keep your pH low (7.0-7.2), and stay on top of your chlorine so that you don't have to shock the pool, as well as keeping a metal sequestrant in the water, then you shouldn't have any problem keeping clear water all summer. You might want to add a dose of Polyquat 60 algaecide (the only one that we recommend) as an added protection against algae. The dichlor and trichlor will add chlorine and help keep your pH low, but you'll need to keep an eye on your stabilizer levels, since they both add CYA....and the higher the CYA, the higher your chlorine will need to be in order to keep the algae away.


Janet

[Riverpixy]

Thanks Janet. I have added the Polyquat 60 algaecide. I've added Metal sequestrant -probably too much. The pool store kept telling me to add it. I have put 5 -32oz bottles in the pool.

Both of my current substandard tests that I have right now do not even measure Chlorine yet. I just did a little test with the shocks that I have bought. Honestly when l add the Cal-hypo it turns brown when it hits the water. When I add the Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione it does not. I have one trichlor 3" tablets in my floater in the pool for at least a couple of weeks. I would think that alone would measure some chlorine. I need to work on getting Chlorine level up, but am scared too because of past experience. What would you suggest to get the chlorine up? Should I use the Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione shock I have or should I just use some household bleach? Should I add another chlorine floater?

My pool is clear now. So just need to keep it that way. My readings on my trutest reader (which I know is unrealiabe) were Chlorine 0, PH - 7.2, Alk - 115.
I am going to order the Taylor K-2006.

I really appreciate this forum. So glad I found it. I have learned more from this forum than I have with working with pool stores for 4 weeks!!

[aylad]

The polyquat creates a chlorine demand of its own, so I'm not surprised that your chlorine now is zero--but you can't let it stay there long :) I suspect that your chlorine is also working pretty hard on the stuff that's in your water, so it's probably going to take some diligence to get chlorine to hold for awhile. You can keep the trichlor in the floater, which will help feed chlorine in pretty constantly--just keep an eye on your pH. Otherwise, the dichlor would probably be okay, but honestly I would go with plain, unscented bleach. With all the other things you have going on in the water, bleach is the least likely to complicate things worse than they already are. Besides, it's much easier to calculate doses. What is the volume of your pool?

[Riverpixy]

I think I found out what I did wrong when I sent my original reply to your very first response to me. I think I hit the reply to thread button again to send my reply instead of hitting the post quick reply button! I just did it again.

My pool is around 18,000 gallons. So how do I calculate how much bleach to use? How often do I add?

I just ordered my Taylor K-2006 kit. Pool Supply World had it for $45 with $8 shipping.

Thanks,
Diane

[aylad]

Here's a link to the bleach calculator that we like to use http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?11418-bleach-calc

You need to add your bleach as often as necessary to keep your chlorine in the appropriate range as determined by your CYA level (see the "best guess chart" linked in my sig above). We recommend that you test your water every day and add whatever amount of bleach needed to come back up to your target level. I would recommend that you do this in the evening to reduce the amount of chlorine that you lose to the sun.

[waterbear]

I have been reading about your TF100 and K-2006 comparison. I am going to order one of these. Which one do you recommend?


IF you are talking about the test kit comparison over at Trouble Free Pool I wrote that when I was a Moderator over there and I slanted it toward the TF100 to help the person who now owns that site get his fledgling test kit business off the ground. The TF-100 is a direct copy of a kit that PoolDoc used to sell BUT I actually prefer the K-2006 for several reasons (I own both, in fact I own 2 TF-100s and PoolDoc's PS234s, in additions t a few Taylor kits).. I feel the original Taylor dropper bottles are better than the ones in the TF100 and the purpose of the larger CYA View tube in the TF 100 is to make you go through CYA reagent faster--granted it does measure down to 20 ppm instead of 30 but since CYA is normally kept at 30 ppm or higher that is a moot point and part of the decision as to which view tube to include WAS based on the fact that the larger one went through reagent twice as fast. I was consulted on designing that kit and remember that phone conversation.) Also the pH test in the K-2006 (2000 series comparator and reagent R-0004)is a higher precision test (increments every .2) and includes acid and base demand tests, which are useful in some circumstances compared to the 1000 series comparator and R-0014 reagent used in the TF-100.




I just ordered my Taylor K-2006 kit. Pool Supply World had it for $45 with $8 shipping.

Thanks,
Diane

That price has me suspect. Make SURE you got a K-2006 and not a K-2005 or other Taylor kit. They are not the same!
Interestingly enough, they also sell the K-2005 for $60 and that is a less expensive kit than the K-2006 so something is not right. (and I noticed that they are selling the TF100 also)

[PoolDoc]

I checked -- they ARE listing the K-2006, and they have the correct pictures. I'm guessing that may be some sort of clearance price, but it's a good deal as long as it lasts. Since currently Amato does NOT have the kits available, the cost at Amazon is about $60. I think Amato may pick their kits up at Taylor themselves, and keep a minimum inventory.