Filter Aid

[lestat0109]

I chlorinated my new pool after filling it up and it turned metal green. I was given metal remover by the pool store which i used. Yesterday I used a sand filter aid/ revitalizer type product and have backwashed as directed. My question is how long do i wait before adding chlorine again?

[lestat0109]

Well, nevermind. :)

I went ahead and added a gallon of chlorine to the pool and allowed it to circulate for an hour. When I went back out to check it the water was once again translucent green so apparently I still have some copper in there. I added another bottle of the metal remover and will wait the directed 24 hours for the outcome. Is it normal to have to do the metal removing process multiple times? Is using normal, unscented, regular Clorox bleach good for a chlorine source or do i really have to buy the expensive stuff at the pool store?

[Watermom]

What you are adding is a metal sequestering agent. It does NOT remove metal from the water; it just keeps it in suspension. How do you know it is copper and not some other type of metal? What kind of pool do you have and what is its volume?

[lestat0109]

What you are adding is a metal sequestering agent. It does NOT remove metal from the water; it just keeps it in suspension. How do you know it is copper and not some other type of metal? What kind of pool do you have and what is its volume?

The pool store told me if it turned translucent green after adding chlorine it was copper. Per the new users guide, the first thing I did after making my first post was populate the form with all of my pool info.

[PoolDoc]

Yeah, I don't know about the green. When I have (a) seen that color and (b) know for sure what the cause was, it was iron, not copper. But, I've seen clear green (non-algae) pools at other times, when it seemed NOT to be iron, but I'm not sure.

Anyhow. Do all these things:

1. Run your filter 24/7. You want the iron to come out on the filter, if possible. If you have a low speed, use that.
2. Get a good test kit -- you need one anyhow, but with metals, it's essential (FAQ excerpts below).
3. Keep your pH in the 7.0 - 7.2 range, to minimize staining.
4. If you have chlorine tabs, use THEM to chlorinate, and put them in the skimmer. This tends to cause the metals to drop out on the filter.
5. Use borax, NOT soda ash (pH up) or baking soda (alk up) to raise your pH, if the tabs push it too low.
6. Keep your chlorine on the low end of things; get some polyquat (see below) to use preventatively. (It also helps filter metal particles out.)

I'm excerpting sections of the new FAQ that apply to you. Good luck!

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+ When we say "Walmart", we don't necessarily mean Walmart. You can find most of these products elsewhere. But, WalMart is a known quantity, and other stores are not so much. For example, other stores have been selling store brand bleach at concentrations other than 6%, mostly lower. And, the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit -- an excellent starter kit -- is (AFAIK) available ONLY at Walmart, and not all of those.


+ Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) / phenol test kit, or if available at YOUR Walmart (check availability (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668)), get the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit, which is compatible with the Taylor K2006. Test the pool as soon and you can, and post the results. If you get the 6-way kit, ALSO test the water you FILL the pool with, especially if it's a well, and post THOSE results as well. (The HTH is the best available kit you're likely to find locally, but it's not the K-2006. It can only provide rough measurements chlorine levels above 5 ppm, and it measures "TOTAL" hardness, rather than "CALCIUM" hardness, which is not ideal.)


+ Having a good test kit makes pool care easier for EVERYONE. A good test kit means a kit that can test chlorine from 0 - 25 ppm, pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, and stabilizer with reasonable accuracy. Test strips (AKA 'guess-strips' ) do NOT meet this standard. Some pool store testing is accurate; most is not. The ONLY way you'll know whether your pool store is accurate or bogus, is by testing accurately your own self. On the other hand, pool store 'computer' dosing recommendations are NEVER trustworthy -- ignore them. They are designed to sell more chemicals than you need, and WILL cause many pool problems.


+ We recommend the Taylor K-2006 test kit, which meets the requirements above, for many reasons. The HTH 6-way drops kit is a great starter kit, and is compatible with the K2006 (it's made by Taylor). There are a few alternatives; for example Lamotte makes an FAS-DPD kit that's OK -- but it costs 3x as much. But, we're not aware of any test that is better, and since we are all familiar with the K-2006 (and can help you with it) we recommend it exclusively ( Test kit info page (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16551) )


+ If you have a freshly filled vinyl pool, you can generally get by for awhile without the K2006, as long as you have an OTO kit (not: 'guess-strips'!!). However, there are three cases where you need a K2006 ASAP: You have a concrete pool, with scaling OR corrosion. You have a problem with metals or staining. You have a SWCG (Salt water chlorine generator) and possible scale build up.In most cases, until you have a K-2006, all we can do is help you keep it from getting worse.


+ Pool stores often tell you MUST do this or that, right away. But, with few exceptions, there are only 3 chemical "MUST-FIX-NOW!" situations: Low chlorine, and pH above 8.0 or below 7.0 Pool freshly filled with metal containing well waterOtherwise, ignore their "you must do X, or your pool will become a nuclear hazard site!" type warnings.


+ Pool stores, test kits, pool books, online pool guides, iPad apps, The PoolCalculator, and even Taylor's K-2006 instruction booklet ALL have 'recommended' pool chemical levels. Some of these recommendations are usually wrong; some are mostly wrong; a few are ALWAYS wrong. If you do not have one of the "MUST-FIX-NOW" conditions, do NOT follow recommendations to 'fix it', until you've talked to us. If you do, you will almost always waste money, and frequently, you will make the problems harder to fix!


+ There are 3 critical pool chemical levels: chlorine, pH, and stabilizer. If you don't know your stabilizer level, we won't be able to help much till you do. Read the Best Guess page ( poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html ) for more information.

Note for Lestat: other things are critical in your case; metals complicate things, a lot.


+ Buy some plain 6% household bleach, about 10 gallons per 10,000 gallons in your pool. You can switch to other products, later. But bleach will work, in almost any sort of pool mess, without complicating side-effects.


+ If you need stabilizer, and have access to a Sams Club, buy their 24lb pack of 1# bags of 100% dichlor shock. Each bag will add about 7 ppm of chlorine, and about 6 ppm of stabilizer, per 10K gallons of water. Otherwise, order dichlor from Amazon:
Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZA/poolbooks)We do NOT recommend buying dichlor locally, otherwise, at least until you are an EXPERT reader of chemical labels. The chlorinating pool chemicals sold at Walmart, Kmart, Costco, and most other local stores are diluted blends, sometimes with copper and other products with bad side-effects.


+ Do NOT add pool store goop -- phosphate removers, clarifiers, flocculents, metal 'removers' & sequestrants, and especially, algaecides -- without instruction from us, or at least, a VERY specific reason for doing so. All of those products have side effects that you probably don't understand yet. Most are sold to pool owners who do NOT need them. Many will make things worse if over-used. Some (algaecides, phosphate removers) usually make things worse if used at all. Rarely, you may actually NEED one of those products.

Note for Lestat: you may need other products, in your case. But, do NOT overdo it and DO keep up with what you've used. Some things are incompatible.


+ Filling with metal contaminated water is tricky. Often, by the time your pool is full, it's already stained. If you think (or know) you have metals in your fill water, it is best to wait till you have a complete treatment plan -- and all testkits and chemicals ready and waiting -- BEFORE you fill. If it's too late for that, but your pool has not yet turned brown, or started staining your pool, then do this: Lower your pH to 7.0 - 7.2) Add a dose of pool store LIQUID metal control agent. Do NOT over dose. Do record EXACTLY what you use, because we'll need to know. Buy and use some polyquat (poolsolutions.com/polyquat.html) but do NOT use chlorine.If everything is already all brown, do the same as above, BUT maintain low (1 - 3 ppm) levels of chlorine.


+ Chlorine is the strongest algaecide you can buy . . . but occasionally, you may need a different one. Almost the only alternative algaecide we recommend is polyquat -- poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] . This product is a GOOD clarifier and a moderately good algaecide, with almost no bad side effects. We often recommend it for use when you are going on vacation, or when you need to lower your chlorine, to prevent remove stains. It has become quite difficult to purchase locally at the normal full strength 60% concentration. If you find it locally, at a 60% concentration, that's fine. But be SURE to check the chemical name. If you need to buy it online, here's an Amazon link:
Kem-Tek 311-6 Pool and Spa 60-Percent Concentrated Algaecide, 1 Quart (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI0Y/poolbooks)


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[lestat0109]

Thank you so much for the info. I noticed when i pour the regular unscented clorox into a glass it is green in color. Could that have something to do with my coloring issue? The water is crystal clear until i add a gallon of this bleach, the it turns translucent green.

[lestat0109]

Through research on the site I just learned of the culator. I will be picking one of these up on the way home, cant hurt, right?

[aylad]

You're right, it can't hurt...and maybe it will help. We have a few folks on the forum trying these out, and we're trying to get a general consensus of whether they do actually work, so please update us as to whether you have good results with it or not.

Janet

[mbar]

Sounds like you have metals in your fill water. The only way to get your water clear is to get rid of the metals....I am using the curator again this year. Last year it seemed to wrk, so far this year the metals havn't returned. You can also get the metals to fall out of suspension so that they stain the filter, but it is more complicated. Keep us informed, and feel free to ask any questions

[aylad]

Hi, Marie!! *waving*, welcome back!!

[mbar]

Thanks!