PH Plus vs. Borax Price & Ingredients

[moblaine]

I was curious how to tell which is more cost effective. The ingredients on the 20 Mule Team Borax only 1 list thing so am I to presume there is no "filler"? A 4 lb. 12 oz. box cost $4.50. 12 lbs of PH Plus cost me about $20 at the pool store. Are they equivalent products, lb. for lb.?

[waterbear]

pH plus is sodium carbonate (sometimes called sodium hydrogen carbonate) . It is exactly the same thing as Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda (also called Soda Ash or Sal Soda) found in the laundry aisle of the grocery for a LOT LESS MONEY than the pH Plus (and probably sitting right next to the 20 Mule Team borax). It is not the same as baking soda (sodum bicarbonate) that your pool store sells as Total Alkalinity increaser for a lot more money that the grocery store does. Pound for pound it takes about twice as much borax as soda ash to raise the pH the same amount. HOWEVER SODA ASH WILL ALSO CAUSE A VERY FAST RISE IN TOTAL ALKALINITY WHICH IS OFTEN NOT DESIRABLE so borax is preferential since it has a minimal impact on TA.
It si really a comparison of apples and oranges since the two chemicals have very different effects on your pool's water balance.

[donfranko]

Ahh, been reading here a while and this is the 1st time I saw an explanation for Borax vs PH up - Borax does not increase ALK but you need more of it. I think I even asked the question once because the bleach calc says "soda ash, not Borax" to raise PH.
So Soda Ash or PH up is OK if you can allow for PH increase and Borax to raise PH if you don;t want an additional increase in ALK.

[waterbear]

Im most cases soda ash (pH up) will cause the ALK to go too high so unless the pH is VERY LOW and the TA is non existent I would go with borax.

[Watermom]

So Soda Ash or PH up is OK if you can allow for PH increase and Borax to raise PH if you don;t want an additional increase in ALK.

I think maybe you meant if you can allow for alk increase rather than pH increase?

[moblaine]

Waterbear, great explanation, thanks. I used lots of Borax last week and my PH is up so I was happy with my first time use. I wonder if you can tell me where to get the product to lower Alkalinity?

[Watermom]

The procedure for lowering alk is described here: Lowering Alkalinity Step-by-Step (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/lowering-swimming-pool-alkalinity-step-by-step.html)


Also, please read the link in my signature below about using muriatic acid safely.

How high is your alk, by the way?

[moblaine]

Watermom, it was 130 ppm as of this past weekend, having risen from 100 on June 2 and 120 on June 5. I think it went up from using powder shocking product (cal hypo?) a couple of times. Can't recall if bleach affects it or not (I've read my manual from Taylor test kit a few times and lots of different posts on here so have digested lots of information but didn't retain lots either, lol).

[waterbear]

TA will fluctuate a bit with pH so if your pH has risen your TA might read higher. Also if you are testing with a Taylor kit the precision is 1 drop so if youare using a 25 ml water sample the reading of 130 ppm this past weekend and the reading of 120 on June 5th are really the same.
The only thing that will cause TA to rise when you add it are sources of bicarbonate (baking soda, alkalinity increaser) or carbonate (pH up, soda ash, washing soda). Borax will cause a slight TA rise because it causes pH to rise and when pH rises some of the carbonic acid (carbon dioxide dissolved in your water) becomes bicarbonate ion.
NO source of chlorine will cause TA to rise (but trichlor and dichlor can cause it to drop because they are acidic and adding acid lowers TA.)

[donfranko]

yes, that is what I meant :)