No Chlorine at all in pool...

[markcobra]

Hello new to the forum, pool owner for 3 years never had any problems. 23,000 gallon concrete pool with D.E Filter. Pool is almost 20 years old. All chemicals are at ideal levels via strips and 3 pool store test readings except free chlorine and total chlorine reading 0. Pool water is crystal clear and no one has been in yet this season. I've been shocking with calcium hypochlor and maintaining chlorine tabs with stab in skimmer. I do get some alage buildup on walls. I shocked with 3lbs of calcium hypochlor and added 2 tabs today and tested with a strip half hour late and got good readings. An hour after that same great reading but no FC!

I have a Taylor 2006 on the way.

My latest reading from leslies compares to 2 other stores and strips

FC 0
TC 0
PH 7.6
Total Alk 120
CYA 30
Calc Hardness 160
TDS 500
Phosphates 300ppm I added pool perfect with phos free
Nitrates 2ppm

Please help this is driving me crazy. Never had a problem holding FC.

Is a partial drain and refill in order?

Thanks

Mark

[Watermom]

Here is your post. I'm not sure why you didn't see the other one. I modded it in earlier. (I deleted your duplicate post.)

Do you know what your CYA reading was upon closing in the fall? I believe your other post said that you have also been using dichlor this spring. Is that right? Did you have any CYA when you opened?

[markcobra]

Hi Watermom! Sorry for double post. I do not know the exact amount of CYA last year but remember that according to a test strip everything looked fine. I was using dichlor shock at the beginning of this season as well but again didn't measure any chemistry until water was clear. Thats when I kept noticing 0 chlorine reading even after shocking. I'm leaning towards ammonia now. I'm gonna get an ammonia test and check it out and then do a 2 gallon bucket test with Clorox Is there a certain type of ammonia test I should get?

[BigDave]

You can test for ammonia if you want to but I really don't see why. It's chlorine that will eventually clear it - the method for clearing it's the same. Get your pool to shock and keep it there until you lose less than 1ppm FC overnight and have nearly no CC. It'll take time and lots of chlorine but "it is what it is".

[markcobra]

Should I start with 12 gallons of liquid chlorine? 23000 gallon pool.

[markcobra]

I'm gonna buy 6 2gallon jugs of chlorine and dump it in the pool today. My Taylor 2006 test kit just came so I'm gonna test before I do anything and then burn out the ammonia or whatever is causing 0 FC. I did the 2gallon bucket test with bleach and it seems to be holding with a 1.5 tsp of bleach. I'll report back on results.

[BigDave]

Pool store Liquid chlorine at 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite or household bleach at 6% Sodium Hypochlorite?

Looking over your post, I'm not sure if you have no chlorine or lots of chlorine as DPD and strips can bleach out in high chlorine. If you really have no chlorine then you probably have ammonia and I'll reccommend that you start going after it with lots of chlorine. But, if your chlorine is actually high, we'll need to figure out why you still have algae.

An OTO chlorine test will clearly tell us if you have no chlorine or really high chlorine. OTO/pH tests are widely available, pick one up before we go on.
If the Walmart's in your area have the HTH 6-way kit, get one. (Check availability (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668)) It has OTO, a better than average pH test, and other necessary tests

At a CYA level of 30, your shock level is 15 according to Ben's Best Guess Chart (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html).
12 gallons of 6% bleach should put 32 ppm FC in your pool - probably too much but, a good amount to buy.
12 gallons of 12.5% LC should add 65ppm FC - Too much.

If OTO shows you have no chlorine, add 6 gallons of 6% or 3 gallons of 12.5%.

Please get the OTO and let us know if the test is clear (0) or Dark yellow, orange red, brown.

[Watermom]

Dave --- he states above that he has the Taylor K-2006 so there is no need for him to get the HTH 6-Way kit.

[markcobra]

Its been over an hour after dumping 10 gallons of liquid chlorine 10% and I attempted to test the FC chlorine but the sample wasn't clearing up after over 100 drops so I stopped. I did a test strip test and of course all the squares are off the charts. I hope I didn;t put too much in.

[BigDave]

Watermom, I posted while markcobra's post was still in mod queue.

markcobra, While the FAS-DPD test can be bleached out, it is far less likely than DPD or strips. Also if you put two scoops of powder in the the 10ml sample and swirl it you will porbably see a flash of pink before it bleaches out a third may turn it pink. No flash, no pink, no chlorine. No chlorine, go after it with bleach adding 6 gallons 6%, let it mix and then test - you should start seeing CC if you're fighting ammonia.

[Watermom]

I think you went a little overboard with the liquid chlorine. 10 gallons of 10% l would have added about 43ppm of chlorine. See what you have in the morning.

[markcobra]

Thanks for all the replies keep them coming! I have to go to work but I did quick aquachek test strip and FC is very dark purple. PH is a little. TA and CYA seem good. Will do a test with K2006 when i get home. Using the drops for FC and not getting the sample to turn clear means I got alot of chlorine in there? I added over 100 drops and it wasn't turning at all.

I guess whatever was going on is gone since I put alot of liquid chlor in? Should I let the chlorine come down a little now over the next few days on its own?

The 2 gallon bucket test has no FC in it.

I did test for ammonia before dumping chlorine in and it was 0. How long until this chlorine goes down? Its sunny here today and I left filter on all night.

[markcobra]

Just got home and did a quick test strip again and according to that thing are in line except chlorine is high but alot less dark purple than it was. Pool absolutely looks fantastic.

My question what do I use to maintain chlorine in the pool? Should I continue with the trichlor pucks in floater? I'd like to stick with liquid chlorine to shock. Not gonna use powder anymore after I use up my last 3 bags.

============================

I guess I had algae on my walls even though I had been shocking and scrubbing walls I could never get them clean because those walls now look super clean. Ammonia levels were 0 before I chlorinate bombed the pool. Phosphate level is rather high around 400. I just put a liter of pool perfect with phos free in skimmer. Gonna let it run for 48 hours. Pressure is around 24 so I may have to backwash. Gonna post a Taylor reading in a little bit.

[Watermom]

When you post your numbers, be sure that CYA is one of them. Whether or not you can continue to use the trichlor pucks depends on what your CYA level is.

I wish you hadn't added the Phos Free. I'm going to encourage you not to add any additional stuff to the water unless you run it past us first here on the forum. Most of the time, what pool stores tell you to add is not needed and often makes a mess of your water. I'm pretty certain you didn't need the Phos Free. I've never seen a pool yet that did.

[markcobra]

Ok. I have the aquachek strips for Phosphates that where I got the number. So I put my polaris in and it must be kicking up some dust cause the pool is getting cloudy or is it the phosfree?

Taylor results:
FC 5
CC .04
PH 7.2
CYA 41

Mark

[PoolDoc]

If you would, please log your test results here:


Pool History Entry Form (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGhqTkozN2hJQ3A2eUJ0NmNtdGhWS0E6M A)
Pool History Results (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahjo2iDF0aJgdGhqTkozN2hJQ3A2eUJ0NmNtdGhWS 0E)

It will make it easier for us to help you.

[markcobra]

Tested FC again cause I'm paranoid and like using this Taylor test kit. FC has went down to 2.2 from 5 in a matter of under 2 hours! I'm afraid I'm gonna lose it all by tomorrow morning! Should put more liquid in?

[PoolDoc]

Yeah. Put another couple of a gallons of bleach in, but wait till 7 or 8 pm.

[markcobra]

Well I got 2 gallon of liquid chlorine left 10% should I just use 1 gallon of that. Don't have bleach. I also have 3lbs of cal hypchl left too.

[Watermom]

Sure. You can use the 10% or you can use some cal-hypo since you have a concrete pool and your calcium hardness level is only 160. (200-400 is the suggested range.) Either way will work.

[markcobra]

Had to backwash, psi was ready to hit 30 after I put the pool perfect w/phos free in. Now I'm at 11psi. I usually hover around 11 - 18 psi. Gonna throw some cal-hypo in, in little awhile. It just got real dark thunderstorm warning! Should I wait?

What should I do about the 400 Phosphate reading?

[PoolDoc]

People get algae during rain because they stop taking care of their pools -- NOT because of the rain. Add the chlorine!

Don't worry about the phosphate.

[markcobra]

Dumb question...I'm gonna go shock with 3lbs of cal-hypo. Should I let the filter run all night?

I can't get enough of this site LOL... you guys are the best! No more listening to pool store for me.

[PoolDoc]

Not necessarily. I guess if you are just broadcasting the cal hypo, you don't have to run it at all.

[markcobra]

Alright so I guess I can start going in the pool now as long as I'm maintaining proper chemistry? My wife and I have 3 kids ages 4, 3, and 1. I didn't let anybody swim in it yet while I was battling the no FC issue.

I don't worry about Phosphates and Nitrates?

Also when I add bleach at dusk do I run the filter all night or just for an hour or 2 or not at all? I set my filter to run 8am-8pm.

Thanks

[PoolDoc]

[ PoolDoc Caution: This is not a Watermom-safe post! ]


I don't worry about Phosphates and Nitrates?

Oh, I suppose you may, if you like. ;)

I can probably think of some more things to worry about, if that's not enough. There's always Naegleri fowleri, which occasionally lives in pools, is chlorine resistant, goes in through your nose, and turns your brain to mush. And, of course, black widow spiders just adore the underside of skimmer lids -- I've found them there a least a dozen times.

Is that enough? :p

[markcobra]

Funny Doc. My wife was telling me that we have to always check the inside of the kids play house because friends of our keep finding black widow spiders.

Quick test strip this morning reads around 3 FC.

[Watermom]

[ PoolDoc Caution: This is not a Watermom-safe post! ]
There's always Naegleri fowleri, which occasionally lives in pools, is chlorine resistant, goes in through your nose, and turns your brain to mush.
AAAHHHKKK! :eek::eek: Just another reason I should keep my head out of the water other than I don't want to get my hair wet!


Is that enough? :p

YES!!! :eek::eek: I should've heeded the warning but couldn't resist cuz I was so busy laughing at your big red letters!

(You should have seen me this weekend cleaning out the shed with my youngest son. I'm sure you can picture it --- me very carefully and gingerly lifting things --- taking care to not get too close --- in case there would be a bug, brown recluse spider, or worse yet --- a SNAKE! Fortunately, we found nothing. If we had, I'm sure you woulda heard me screaming all the water to your house!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:)

[markcobra]

Don't get me started with snakes!

Anyway I just did another quick test strip and 0 FC! What is going on. I didn't have time to do a Taylor reading. All other levels ideal and pool looks great.

[markcobra]

I did a taylor reading and that confirmed no Free chlorine.

A few questions:

Should I add 2 gallon of Chlorine 10% tonight?

Should I be maintaining a certain level everyday?

Should I be adding an Insane amount (10 gallon) like last time or just keep adding daily and maintaining a certain level?

When I add the bleach should i be running filter all night or for an hour or so?

Moving forward I plan on buying bleach at super market since I only have 2 gallons left of pool store chl and no powder left.

Thanks again!

[Watermom]

For reference, in your pool, each gallon of 6% bleach will add 2.6ppm of chlorine and each gallon of 10% will add about 4.3ppm.

Let's do an overnight test on your pool. Go ahead and add both of the gallons of 10% this evening. Wait an hour or so and then test your chlorine. Then, in the morning within 2 hours of sunrise, check the chlorine again. See how much you lose overnight. If you lose more than 1ppm, then you should continue to try and keep the chlorine at shock level which for your pool with CYA of 40 would be 15ppm of chlorine.

When you get to the point where you are not losing more than 1ppm of chlorine overnight and you have no more than 0.5ppm of CC and your water is clear, then I would suggest keeping the chlorine high for one additional day for added insurance and then you can let it drift down. Then, keep it between 3-6 all the time. If you dip lower, you risk problems.

[markcobra]

So far so good. We finally all went swimming yesterday! Except the 1 year old she napped for 3 hours! My 4 year old daughter won the award for first one in for this year. My 3 year old son played on the 1st and 2nd steps. It takes him a few pool outing to get goin.

I've been maintaining FC levels at around 3-6. I've been pouring 96oz in every other day or 2. I raided the supermarket and have store brand ultra bleach reg scent on hand. Pool water looks fantastic.

Thanks again for all your help and teachings. I will not be listening to pool stores anymore. I look forward to helping and sharing my knowledge and experiences.

Thanks

Mark

[PoolDoc]

Thanks. We don't get to hear the end story, nearly as often as we'd like.