Pool liner feels like sandpaper

[pleasehelp]

I noticed a previous post about this, but it was an igp, mine is an agp. I have no idea how to deal with it. The pool store gave me some scale prevention, but it really didn't do anything. I don't know if my water is cloudy, or if the scale build up is so heavy that I can't see through it. This is only our second season start up, and I am ready to sell it!
Start up this year has been horrible!

[aylad]

Don't sell it yet. Give us a set of test results, taken with a drop-based kit, and tell us what you have put into the pool (ingredients, not just "shock"). Also, if you can take some pics, send them to poolforum@gmail.com, along with the URL of this thread so Ben will know where to put them.

[pleasehelp]

At 8:00 pm the Chlorine .4, TA seems to be 200, PH 7.7. Where to begin on what we have put in the pool?-We have been through roughly 16 cases of shock, 1 gallon of muriatic acid, 1 container of phosphate remover, 2 treatments of Poolife mustard algae treatment. The liner has felt like sandpaper since we first opened it.
We have a Pentair 1.5hp pump, with a sand filter. Last night I put in 4 gallons of chlorine and this morning it still showed 3.0.

[aylad]

Ok--what is the volume of your pool? what is the ingredient of the "shock", and how much constitutes 1 case? What testing kit are you using? What is your Calcium level?

What you're describing could be calcium scale, or could be sand algae--can you describe what it looks like? What color is it?

[pleasehelp]

It is a 26,000 gallon pool. 1 case is 4 gallons of 12.5% sodium hypochlorite. The testing kit is Poolmaster Basic 5 test kit, uses drops.(plan on buying the kit recommended on this site) The last calcium level was 154, according to the pool store test. I assumed the scale was calcium, from PH being too high? It is white and crusty, just like the feel of medium grit sandpaper. We have had a DE filter, but just couldn't keep up with the clean up, so we switched to a sand filter last week. We also use the FROG system. I will try to get a picture sent in.
I just put in 2 more gallons, really not sure what I am doing at this point. Last year the start up was picture perfect, and the upkeep for the summer was easy. This is only my second year to start up. The one pool store just told me to keep pouring the chlorine in, and backwash the DE filter as often as needed, which was about every 20 minutes. R

[aylad]

Each gallon of 12.5% should raise your FC by approx. 4.8 ppm. In order to attain shock level, you need to know your CYA (see the link to the best guess chlorine chart in my sig for more info and for the chart). If your CYA is 0, then you'll need to reach 12-15 ppm of chlorine in order to achieve shock level. If you have green in the pool, you'll need to reach and maintain shock level until it clears.

Can you break off a piece of the scale? If so, put it in a covered jar with some white vinegar overnight and see if it dissolves. If so, there are folks here on the forum who can instruct you in what's needed to dissolve it back into your pool water, but definitely don't use any cal-hypo for chlorination until that's addressed.

[pleasehelp]

Thanks for your quick replies! Ok, so how do I reach and maintain shock level if my CYA level is 0. According to the pool store it was 9 (that was Sunday) Isn't that the stabilizer? I have been maintaining chlorine level overnight, and then losing it during the day. I am sorry for my stupidity here...I have been doing as much reading on this website as I can! I have the FROG mineral reservoir, and thought that was supposed to be helping with maintaining a chlorine level, if so, it doesn't seem to be doing much.

As for the scale, I can't really break of a piece. It did seem to brush off easier when we brought the PH down.

[Watermom]

I would ditch the Frog. It adds copper to the water which you don't want. Copper is what turns hair green and can stain pools. How long have you been using it? If for very long, you might want to have a pool store test your water for metals before shocking the pool. Shocking can cause metals to fall out of suspension and stain things. If you do indeed have metal in there, you would need to use a metal sequestering product. We'll talk about that after you get the metals test done.

I'm going to ask Ben to look in on this thread. Sit tight for now. (But, if you can get the metals test done today, that would be another piece of information that you could have.)

[pleasehelp]

I just want to thank all of you who help us pool "newbies"! Ok, can I do that without a test kit that is recommended on this site. I have one ordered, but for now only have a Basic 5 kit from the pool store.
We used the Frog last summer and have had it going this year for about 3 weeks. The pool store tested the water Sunday and according to their test: "ClearCare Expert"
there was no iron or copper. I find this hard to believe, as we fill the pool with well water. Where else can I have it tested?
Thanks again! I am trying to learn as much as I can from reading, but it can be very overwhelming!

[aylad]

Pool store is about the only place to have metals tested, unless you want to buy the kit yourself and test, but I think they're too expensive for one-time use....

I know there's a lot of information out there, and it seems very complicated, but it's really not--it just takes practice. Eventually this will all begin to make sense and you'll wonder why you thought it was so hard! ;)

Get some chlorine in the pool--0.4 ppm isn't enough to keep the algae away. I would put a gallon in today, and then if you plan to shock it, wait until tonight when the sun is off the pool and do it then. Can you tell if you're losing chlorine overnight, or is it just during the day when the sun is out?

[pleasehelp]

For the past couple of days I am only losing chlorine during the day. Does that mean I am winning the battle on the algae? How do I keep the chlorine during the day if the stabilizer is low. I ordered the test kit you recommend, so hopefully it will come quickly! As I said before I am trying to read so I don't have to keep asking all these silly questions. Today the water looks more of a cloudy blue.
Also, last night you said there were people on the forum that would be able to help with the white crust that has formed on my liner. How do I go about getting their help? I tried peeling some off to put in the vinegar, but it just doesn't come off in pieces. Do I worry about this after the water has cleared?

[Watermom]

If you are not losing chlorine overnight, then that is definitely a good sign. Glad you ordered a good test kit and hope you will get it soon. Once you get the kit and can test the CYA, we can advise you whether or not to add some more.

I did alert Ben to have a look at your thread but he was super busy and hasn't had time to be around here today. So, try and be patient and hopefully he will be able to give you some suggestions soon!

[pleasehelp]

Thank you! I have been addicted to this sight for the last 48 hours, but have learned alot! Last night I could finally see the bottom of the pool. I still have the white scale, but I am elated that I can see the bottom. Is Ben someone that would be able to help me work through the white scale issue. Interestingly enough the scale is on the panels, but not on the resin columns.
Also I am wondering, how do I use the search engine? It keeps telling me I don't have access. I am just trying to find out what I need to use instead of the Frog mineral reservoir/chlorinator. I was under the impression that the Frog was what kept some chlorine in the pool between weekly shock treatments. I hate to keep bothering people with silly questions, and was hoping I could just search for the answers.

[Watermom]

No silly questions. We are glad to help.

Yes, Ben is the one who will best be able to you with your scale problem. He has worked night and day around this forum for the past couple of months and really needed a couple days off to rest and do some other things. He knows a lot about pools and loves to help people, but he is also a husband and a father and needs some time with his family. His brain was starting to get fried from no breaks from this forum, so we are glad that he took a couple of days to recoup. But, he should be back around in the next day I think.

As far as searching, use the Google search in my signature below instead of the forum software's search feature as it is much better. Until your registration is finished (which will hopefully be tomorrow), you'll have to log out to see the search results.

Hope this helps! Thank you for your patience!

[PoolDoc]

I'll offer a more extended reply later, but for now.

1. Do NOT try to scrape the scale off: you can damage the liner.
2. Do get a K2006; you are going to need to the full test capability to manage the liner clean up.
3. Do get your chlorine up and kill the algae; that has to be done first.
4. Please complete the PF Pool Chart, to allow us easy access to your pool info:

Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)
Pool Chart Results (http://goo.gl/PXaLu)
5. Finally, DO get your pH DOWN. You want it just barely above the LOWEST point on whatever tester you have.

[pleasehelp]

Ok, got my new K2006 test kit:
FC 2.6
CC .4
PH 8.0
CYA 0
TA 250
The pool is no longer green, blue and pretty clear (not sparkling). I am going to do the overnight loss test, and then not really sure where to go from there. I think I need to get my PH down, and the TA up...maybe. Thank you again! You are all great! Going to do some more reading to see if I can attempt to answer some of my own questions. Starting to feel a little empowered and not overwhelmed!

[pleasehelp]

I meant TA down.

[BigDave]

You can move your pH down with Muriatic Acid. See the link in Watermom's sig above for handling Muriatic Acid. This will also lower TA.
Ben recommended that you bring you pH to the lowest on your tester. This is to help with the scaling.
The process for lowering tA is to add Muriatic acid, this lowers pH and TA, then areate the pool, this will raise pH without raising TA. Repeat this process when the pH gets up to 7.6 (maybe 7.4 in your case) until you have your TA at the level you want.

[pleasehelp]

Ok, I have been trying to do as much reading as I can and move forward, but still have a few questions:

Readings;
FC 5
CC .2
Ph 7.4
TA 210ish (I have already added nearly 1 gallon of muriatic acid in the last 24 hours)
CYA 0
I got some of the powdered CYA and added to the skimmer today, 1lb as of right now. From what I understand I need to get the CYA up, currently I am flying through the liquid chlorine. Losing alot during the day. What is the quickest way to increase the CYA? Also, my ph jumps up pretty easily, which I think is due to the alkilinity. Once I add the muriatic acid, how long do I have to wait to add chlorine?

[PoolDoc]

Use these forms to record your test results -- I did your last two.


Pool History Entry Form (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDBwZWlDUk45MGFQRmdNaDR1emF4Tmc6M A)
Pool History Results (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahjo2iDF0aJgdDBwZWlDUk45MGFQRmdNaDR1emF4T mc)



What is the quickest way to increase the CYA?
Using dichlor powder, to chlorinate. Buy the PoolBrand 24# pack of 1# bags at Sams if you can; otherwise, buy a few bags of goop (diluted dichlor) locally, and order this from Amazon:

Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZA/poolbooks)

On your pool, a pound of undiluted dichlor will add about 2.5 ppm free chlorine, and 2 ppm of stabilizer. Of course, the diluted dichlor sold by Walmart, Kmart, Costco, and mostly, by Lowes, HomeDepot, etc. will add less, depending on how much it's been diluted.


Also, my ph jumps up pretty easily, which I think is due to the alkalinity.
As your TA drops, your pH will rise. Just keep adding acid. This is what you WANT to happen. To remove the scale, we'll want to get your TA as low as possible. When it gets below 80 ppm, you'll begin stripping the scale.


Once I add the muriatic acid, how long do I have to wait to add chlorine?

As long as you don't pour bleach in the same spot as the acid, you don't have to wait. I'd let it mix for 15 minutes before hopping in, however. AND your pump should be running when you're adding.