FC and TC Too High and won't come down

[GAPool]

I have a 25K inground vinyl lined pool. Opened it a few weeks ago and after seemingly getting it balanced (had to add algecide, Alk up, Stabalizer up and Calcium Hardness up) it seemed to be ok but then after shocking it with 2# shock 4 days ago, the FC is at 10 and the TC is at 4 and aren't moveing down any each day. Also, my Stabalizer is showing maxed out. Do I need to drain some water and add fresh to try and dilute the high levels? Thanks.

[GAPool]

Ok, I've backwashed really well and rinsed and wasted to lower the pool, then I added fresh water. I know it's not been long enough to get an acurate read, but I tested the water in the shallow end where I have the hose running in and it's still all very high. I added 1 1/2# PH down and I'm on the way to HomeDepot to get a drop tester kit to see if it's more accurate than my strip test kit. By the time I get back it will have circulated 2 hours and I will retest. I really need to get this balanced asap as the kids just got out of school and my daughter's 6th Bday party is next weekend and it has to be balanced. Help!!!

[PoolDoc]

then after shocking it with 2# shock 4 days ago, the FC is at 10 and the TC is at 4 and aren't moving down any each day. Also, my stabilizer is showing maxed out.

Not possible. TC (total chlorine) = FC (free chlorine) + CC (combined chlorine). All we've learned from your test results is that test strips are really 'guess-strips'. But, we already knew that, here. ;) ;)


Ok, I've backwashed really well and rinsed and wasted to lower the pool, then I added fresh water. I know it's not been long enough to get an accurate read, but I tested the water in the shallow end where I have the hose running in and it's still all very high. I added 1 1/2# PH down and I'm on the way to Home Depot to get a drop tester kit to see if it's more accurate than my strip test kit.

OTO (yellow drops) will be some what more reliable than 'guess-strips', but you'll still need a K-2006 (see test kit info page in my sig). Other than the HTH 6-way kit, available at some Walmarts (but not yours -- I checked), there are NO good test kits available locally. Pool stores have no interest in selling kits that essentially replace them!


Do this:

1. Test with OTO -- if you are medium yellow to dark yellow, you are fine. If you are orange, you are too high . . . but do NOT panic, and drain more.

2. Take your water to the pool store, and have them test your stabilizer. Strips can't test stabilizer worth a darn, but the readers the pool stores use are a bit more accurate then just 'eyeballing' it. They will probably tell you that you must drain, refill, and add $400,000 dollars worth of chemicals, or your whole backyard will explode! Just ignore them, and tell us what the results were.

3. Stop adding ANYTHING except bleach, borax and pH down. If your pH is ABOVE 7.8, add some pH down. If your pH is BELOW 7.2, add a box of borax - SLOWLY, to the skimmer, with the pump running. If your chlorine goes below dark yellow, add a gallon of bleach. You did NOT need any calcium hardness -- you NEVER need to add that to a liner pool. You almost certainly did not need any alkalinity+ . . . and you will most likely NOT need any of the other stuff they told you to put in. So, if you want your pool to be ready soon, STOP adding all that goop!

4. Read the "Best Guess" page, the testkit info page, and the using muriatic acid page that are linked in my signature.

5. You will need a K-2006 -- pool store testing is almost never reliable and is almost always just a tool to frighten you into buying more goop, most of which you don't need. Get a good kit, and stay AWAY from the store, unless you need parts!

6. Post your pool info: dimensions, pump/filter make/model, other equipment and so on. Your gallons are almost certainly incorrect: 90% of the time, figures supplied the homeowner are the "gallons if your pool is spilling over" figure, not the actual amount of water in your pool. You've probably been overdosing, based on an inflated figure.

Good luck!

[GAPool]

WOW! Thanks. Looks like I've been bamboozled by the pool store people for years. I'll follow advice and get the drop kit at HD and check it and also take it by the store and let them give me readings. Then I'll report back with the results and my dimensions, etc. I've never used bleach or borax, I'll look for it at the store.

[Watermom]

You can find 20 Mule Team Borax in the laundry aisle at Walmart and as far as bleach goes, you want plain, unscented household bleach. Generic is fine and is what most of us use.

You won't be able to buy a Taylor K-2006 test kit locally. It is only sold online. The test kit links in our signatures go to Amazon which sells the kit for a good price. Also, any purchases made from Amazon through those links earn a little money for the Pool Forum which helps keep us online.

[GAPool]

Couldn't get to the pool store that does water testing. I bought a Basic 5 Test Kit. The 1st Chlorine reading at 2-3 seconds was a 5.0. After 2 minutes, it was > 5.0 (it looked a bit darker (more orange) than the sample guide color.) The pH was 7.6. It said to add an extra drop of #4 when doing the pH and Alk tests, so I did. The Alk took 17-18 drops to turn clear/light yellow (so it's 170-180 when it should be 120-150). So while my pH is good, my Alk is too high and my Chlorine levels are still out the roof. My pool is 9 years old, 18x36 Grecian shape with a swim out and built in covered steps. It gets at least 8 hours of full sun. All of the equipment is Haywood and it's a sand filter. I also have a pre-plumbed Polaris 360 and pump.
What should I do next? Drain more water out and add fresh?

[Watermom]

I'm not sure how you are interpreting your chlorine as being "out the roof" with those results. Try this. Use the dilution method described in this link to see if you can get a little closer with your chlorine reading. This dilution method is not super accurate, but better than nothing. It does not replace having a good test kit, however. You will still need a Taylor K-2006 kit.

Testing Without a Good Kit (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/how-to-test-your-pool-without-a-good-testkit.html )

We still need a CYA reading. That is one of the critical test results to help us help you.

Do not drain more at this point and do not worry about the alk at this point.

[GAPool]

OK, I'll try that. Is there a CYA test I can buy locally? I won't be able to get the K-2006 until next week. Is it safe to swim in the pool? I'll report the results with the diluted test shortly.

Edit by Watermom to merge two posts in the queue:

Results of diluted test: Chlorine looks to be 6.0. I did the diluted test at equal parts x2 and 2/1 x 3 and came up with 6.0 both times. Whew, it's not as high as I had thought. The pH was 7.4 (between 7.2 and 7.6) and the TA was 170. After reading some older posts about CYA being realy high, made me think that mine probably is, but I won't know until the pool store opens Monday or I get my K-2006 next week. My reason for thinking the stabalizer was too high is because upon opening the pool it tested low (nude color on the strip) and I was to add 7.5# of increaser which I did. Now it's a magenta/maroon color, which on the stick is "very high" I'll just leave the pool alone until next week when I can get the CYA tested. I had already taken out the chlorine tablets from the skimmer basket so it's not getting any more chlorine. Thanks for all of your help. Sorry I've been panicky.

[Watermom]

Glad to help. If you have a K-2006 ordered, don't buy an additional kit. Just let a reliable pool store test your CYA Monday and report it. Don't let them talk you into buying a bunch of stuff! Then, when your kit arrives, you can test it yourself.

We are glad to help you!

[GAPool]

I took water samples to 2 different stores:

First store used a Taylor kit and showed TC 4.0, FC 4.0, pH 7.6, CYA 70, TA 119. She also said there was a little bit of copper but not enought to worry about. She said pool was great and don't need to do anything.

Second store sells BioGuard and uses BioLab testing: TC 9.5, FC 6.9, pH 7.1, CYA 121, adjusted TA 71, TA 107, Tot Hardness 60, Saturation Index -1.2. They said I needed to add Alk up, pH up, Calc Hardness up, Oxysheen to eliminate combined chlorine.

(I used my test strip just to see what it showed and it's still showing > 5.0 TC and > 10.0 FC.) My drops kit is showing 6.0 with the diluted test.

My Taylor k-2006 should be here by the end of the week.

What do I need to do? Also, if I want to change to the BBB method, do I have to do it all at once or can I use up the Shock and chlorine tablets I just opened and add in the other B's as I need them or as I run out of what I have. Where is the best place on the forum to learn about the process of using the BBB so I can educate myself on what I will be doing. Thanks!

[PoolDoc]

The BBB Method is not primarily about using bleach, borax OR baking soda -- those just happened to be the pool chemicals that were available in the grocery store when I started PoolSolutions. The BBB Method is about using chlorine to manage your pool in the cheapest, most efficient and most effective way possible. SOMETIMES bleach is a part of that, OFTEN borax is a part of that. Baking soda is, too -- if you need it, and you do NOT!

Your test results are amusing (Taylor / BioLab)

FC: 4.0; 6.9
TC: 4.0; 9.5
pH: 7.6; 7.1
TA: 119; 107
CH: -; 60
CYA 70; 121

You don't need: Alk up, pH up, Calc Hardness up, Oxysheen. You might need a box of borax, but it can wait till you get a kit.

You SHOULD continue to use what you have to maintain chlorine levels -- do NOT let your chlorine get low.

Tell us the EXACT brand and product names of what you have, and we can tell you what the best option for using them is.

[GAPool]

I posted my chemicals, but haven't seen it on the thread and was wondering before i open the $80 tub of chlorine tabs if i should take them back and use bleach and how much or just keep them and use them up. Thanks!

[PoolDoc]

Sorry, we haven't seen them either. Occasionally, something goes wrong and posts get lost.

I can't tell you whether to open or return, without knowing what you've got. You CAN use bleach, while we work that out, however.

[TheWags]

If your CYA is above 100 already, I'd return the tablets and stick to straight chlorine.

[GAPool]

I'll try again: Here are the chemicals I have: The shock has been opened, but the chlorine tabs have not. My chlorine has been going down and was at 3.0 yesterday so I'm sure I'll have to put something in today, just not sure what.

PoolTime 4-in-1 Sanitizer & Shock: Trichloro-s triazinetrione 71.8% (avail Chlorine 65%), Boron Sodium Oxide 8% (B4Na2O7) pentahydrate/clarifier/filtration enhancer/sunlight protector 20.2%

3" Chlorine Tabs: Trichloro-s triazinetrione 94.05%, other 5.95% (avail Chlorine 86.65%) kills bacteria & controls algae, prevents corrosion and metal staining, reduces scale formation, softens water, buillt in sunlight protector

My Taylor kit should be delivered today.

[aylad]

Those are both trichlor. Both will push your pH downward and continue to raise your CYA. If the tabs haven't been opened, I would go ahead and return those. Otherwise, if you can store them in a cool dry place, they'll keep until next year. I wouldn't use any more of the 4-in-1, either...switch to bleach. It's cheaper, better for your pool at this point, and won't keep raising your CYA.

[PoolDoc]

Yeah.

Return what you can.
Use bleach for now.
Do NOT put the 4n1 in the garbage!! We'll need to figure out how you can use it up.
If you can't get bleach tonight, use the 4n1 till you do -- you do NOT want your chlorine to get low.

[GAPool]

How much bleach?

[Watermom]

Check the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below for the correlation between CYA and needed chlorine levels. In your pool, each gallon (4 quarts) of 6% bleach will add about 2.5ppm of chlorine. Use that as a reference to help you figure out doses of bleach.

[GAPool]

Got my Taylor kit: What to do now? Here are my readings:

FC = 8.2 (I still haven't put any chlorine or anything in it for 8 days now and I took the tablets out last Sat.)
CC = 0 (because it didn''t turn pink when I added the 5 drops of R0003 - it stayed clear!)
pH = 7.4
TA = 130
CH = 280
CYA = ~ 110-120 (I kept redoing it with what was left in my little squirt bottle to re-check and that's where it was when the black dot was completely gone)
Sat Index = .1

[PoolDoc]

Ok.

+ CYA>100 => keep your chlorine at 7 ppm or above.

+ Do NOT add any alkalinity plus or calcium hardness increase type products.

+ Give us an inventory on what chemicals you have left. I assume you have, or will return the tabs. You can use the 4n1, but because of the alum you may want to add it via your skimmer. Just make 110% sure that there are NO tabs in the skimmer, a feeder or anywhere else where the shock can touch them. Just make sure your chlorine stays above 7 ppm.

+ Do you have access to pool store liquid chlorine (commercial bleach) or cal hypo in a 50 or 100lb container?

[Watermom]

By the way, having a CC reading of 0 is good! That is what you want!