My water is a mess, I don't know where to start

[mel.hoffman]

We just bought this house with a pool and have little experience with maintaining a pool. It is a very old pool (early 70's) all plaster. I bought a test kit yesterday, not a great one, but it was the best they had in the store and I figured it was better than trying to use the crappy strips. I tested and our water and it is a mess. I have 2 questions to begin.

1. When I do the FC test, how long do I wait to read the results. When I first add the second set of drops and mix, it came out as a 1 ppm, but after a minute it darkened up to about 3 ppm, so which is correct?

2. Where do I start? Here are my results

FC: 1 ppm (or 3 ppm, depending on how I was supposed to read the test)
TC: 5+
pH: 6.8 ~ maybe 7.0
TA: 310 ppm

I tried to do the Acid Demand test, but I added 30 drops without any change and I finally gave up

Help!

[PoolDoc]

Hi Mel;

We have different patterns of problems with pools each year . . . and this is turning out to be the year of the CYA => ammonia bacterial conversions. It sounds like that's where you are.

Do all this:
1. Post your pool info (gallons, dimensions, pump/filter make/model in your signature (link in MY signature)
2. Tell us how you are testing.
3. Add 2 gallons of PLAIN 6% bleach per 10,000 gallons of pool water, each evening
4. Tell us what your pool water LOOKS and SMELLS like.
5. If possible, test and tell us what your CYA and Calcium levels are.
6. Order a K-2006 if you don't have one (link in my sig)

Good luck!

[mel.hoffman]

As I have been reading different thread trying to figure out what is going on I was beginning to think that it was the CYA as well. The guys are the pool store said that we were in a chlorine lock and needed to shock the pool with Free and Clear, which we did. I now think that was a mistake :(

1. I don't know the gallons/dimensions of our pool, once I get the little tikes down for nap I can go out and measure, but I thought I could try and get the other information for you first.

2. I am testing with a kit from Leslies, it says that is is manufactured by Taylor Technologies for Leslie's. It tests Free and total chlorine, pH, Acid Demand, and Total Alkalinity. It uses the bottled reagents.

3. The pool looks very cloudy and sometimes has weird white bubbles on the top when I open the cover, they seem to dissipate as I leave the cover open. It doesn't smell like anything that I noticed.

4. I guess my test kit doesn't test for CYA or Calcium? But I do have those crappy strips that do, CYA tested lower than the 30-50 range on the strip and the Calcium tested around 100.

Thank you for your help!

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I guess I should add that when they told us that we were in chlorine lock (I know from reading on here, you guys say that is wrong and there is no such thing) my FC was testing at 0 and TC was testing over 5. So adding the shock did help my chlorine, but everything else is super low.

===============================================

Okay Ben, I got most of the other information requested. I updated my signature with our specifics, I retested when I went out and got all the same readings as this morning, except my TA was about 270 ppm. I got really close to the water and tried to detect any smell and there was none. When I took the automatic cover off the white foamy bubbles were there, but went away as I kept the cover open. Pool is still a bluish, green color and cloudy. I can see to the bottom at the shallow end (3.5) feet, but not much beyond that. Thank you for all your help!

[PoolDoc]

Ok.

1. Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) kit.
2. Start adding PLAIN 6% chlorine bleach at the rate of 2 gallons per 10K gallons, each evening. Test with the OTO kit: if the result is dark yellow to orange, skip dosing that evening.
3. The kit you have is compatible with the K2006, but not an adequate substitute. You can save the NEW reagents in the K2006 (inside, in the dark) and use the existing ones where they match. But, you still need the K-2006.
4. Leave the pool uncovered at night, and as much as you can during the day. Some of the stuff you are breaking down gives off gasses that need to be released. Also, solar UV helps break down things (when chlorine is present) that otherwise would stick around.

OK. Now the kicker. Pool years here seem to have themes, and this year's theme is, "Bacteria ate my pool's stabilizer and filled it with ammonia poop!"

Bacteria can degrade CYA several ways, some innocuous. For reasons we don't understand, sometimes ammonia is the end product, rather than say, nitrogen gas. This year, EVERYBODY's go no CYA and HIGH ammonia.

There's good news and bad news.

The good news, cleaning up ammonia is really, really simple: just raise the pH to 7.6 or above with borax, and add bleach till your FC level is at least 3x your CC level AND your FC levels drop less than 1 ppm overnight.

But, there's bad news. You will have to add bleach in HUGE quantities. We don't know how "huge", nor when you'll be done. You do NOT want to try to add it all at once -- you could end up with 50 ppm FC in your pool . . . no stabilizer . . . and a white liner, no matter what color it was before! So, you just have to add 10 ppm nightly till your done. On large pools, it's possible to have 100 bleach bottles when your finished.

Do NOT use dichlor or trichlor for this. But if you have a sand filter and access to cheap cal hypo, you can use that. Ask me first, because if you use it like it says on the label, you'll end with extremely high calcium levels, and then you'll have to clean up those.

[mel.hoffman]

I have no idea what cal hypo is. I just planned to get borax and bleach at the store tonight. I won't add the huge amounts all at once, even though I don't have a liner to turn white ;) I was planning on 6 gallons since I am closer to 30,000 gallons, is that okay or should I just do 5 and 3/4?

[PoolDoc]

+ cal hypo = granular calcium hypochlorite. The good stuff will show a percentage of 65% or HIGHER.

+ 6 gallons is fine; that would be about a 12 ppm dose.

[mel.hoffman]

Okay, got the borax in, going to wait about an hour and then hit it with the bleach. This is a total newbie question, I know that you told me to get a K-2006 test kit, does this kit allow you to test higher levels of chlorine? The kit that I have only allows testing up to 5 ppm and that was the best they had in the store. So as of now, I won't be able to tell if my FC and CC are at the right levels. Any suggestions until I can get a good kit delivered?

[Watermom]

I know that you told me to get a K-2006 test kit, does this kit allow you to test higher levels of chlorine? The kit that I have only allows testing up to 5 ppm and that was the best they had in the store. So as of now, I won't be able to tell if my FC and CC are at the right levels. Any suggestions until I can get a good kit delivered?

YES! That is why we like it so much. The Taylor K-2006 allows you to test high chlorine levels up to something like 50ppm if I am remembering correctly. You need to order one ASAP!

Until you get it, you can force a cheaper kit to read a little higher with a dilution method. It is not super accurate and is not meant to replace having a good kit. Read about it here: Testing Without a Good Kit (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/how-to-test-your-pool-without-a-good-testkit.html )

[mel.hoffman]

Thank you Watermom! I will go read that now and get my kit ordered asap. I know having an accurate reading isn't critical for tonight since this process can take a very long time to complete, so I will probably try that in the morning. It's getting dark here and I am a mosquito magnet! ;)

Update on the pool: I added the bleach when the pH was at about 7.2. I know the pH will continue to go up as the borax has more time to circulate through the pool. 6 gallons of bleach in, bottom of the pool was brushed and only 1 pair of shorts and a t-shirt ruined. I am going to leave the cover off overnight as Ben suggested and test again in the morning. Tonight the pool was still a blue-green color, with what looks like a gross, slimy, white-ish film on the top. I can see down about 4.5-5 feet and then the water is too cloudy to see further.

Thanks for all your help!

=====================

Kit ordered! :)

[PoolDoc]

6 gallons of bleach in, bottom of the pool was brushed and only 1 pair of shorts and a t-shirt ruined.

Not ruined; converted to "pool care clothes"! ;)

[mel.hoffman]

So it turned out that I didn't need the dilution test after all. Went out at 6:35 a.m. and tested. Pool is the same blueish greenish color and has that slimy white-ish coating on the top, it looks like an oil slick on top of my pool.

I still have a question about chlorine testing, after I put the chemicals in the testing water do I read them immediately? They darken up as times goes on and I'm not sure which is the correct reading.

TC: about .5
pH: about 7.0 much lower than I had hoped after all that borax, do I add more today?

Also, my husband has a question about this process that I don't know the answer to. If all of our stabilizer is gone, why can we not add new stabilizer now?

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Would it be beneficial to do the bleach in the morning as well? I know that the sun will eat it up, but I could always close the cover to help prevent that. I just want to try and stay ahead of this.

[PoolDoc]

+ Add borax till you get above 7.4

+ You can add stabilizer now, but it will slow the clean up process -- and you'll have to use higher levels of chlorine, which you can't test yet.

+ Yes, you can add bleach in the AM, if you don't mind the wastage. Doing so will speed things somewhat.

[mel.hoffman]

Okay, I will get the borax that I have left in there and if I need more tonight I will do that. I can do bleach in the a.m. as well to try and speed things along. I need to develop my P.O.P., right now it seems to be at about the level of a 7 year old. I want it done now! ;)

Do I close the cover during sunny hours to help save the chlorine or leave it off to let gasses escape and the sun help break some things down?

Still need an answer to the chlorine testing question, match color immediately or let it develop a little first, since it seems to continue to get darker with time?

[mel.hoffman]

10:15 retest of the pool (6 gallons of bleach added just over an hour ago)

CC about 1 ppm (read immediately after mixing the chemicals in testing water)
FC 1 ppm
pH 7.2
TA 280 ppm

I can see that the white slime on the top seems to be breaking up some. What is that gross tuff anyway?

[mel.hoffman]

12:15 test:

FC between .5 and 1 ppm
TC was out the roof
CC was .5-1 ppm
pH was 7.2

Almost all the white was gone, still looks like an oil slick on top. Might be a little clearer, but certainly not clear.

[PoolDoc]

Right now, it's not worthwhile to try to discriminate between initial color and developed color. Just keep adding bleach, till you can hold chlorine overnight. Then, your goo will be mostly gone, and you can start cleaning up.

And I hope I don't offend you, but Mel, we really can't help you 3x per day. You need to back off just a bit, please.

[mel.hoffman]

Thanks. Sorry.

[mel.hoffman]

Update, pool is clear now. I did a final shock last night, which the pool held overnight. pH is up and hopefully staying there. All (most) of the leaves and crap are out of the pool. So after massive amounts of chlorine I think we are on the right track and might be able to swim this weekend.

[PoolDoc]

Great!