Spring Opening Questions

[cjblanton07]

This is the 3rd year opening our pool and haven't had any problems until now. Although I suppose we've done good to make it to the 3rd year with minimal problems :)

33' x about 4' deep Round Above Ground

We bought the pool from someone wanting it taken down and installed ourselves with a new liner. That was fun! Did some looking around on-line the first year and somehow found a product called the Floatron. Bought it and used very minimal chlorine the first summer as well as last summer. Basically it releases copper into the water but from what I've read on here it is a pretty $200 floating device??

Anyway the cover we had on the pool this winter did not seal it - it was woven and progressively stretched until there were tons of small holes by the end of the winter. We were'nt even having to pump water off the top anymore. When we pulled the cover back it was a green slimy mess (the year before the cover had busted through a seam and dump leaves and debris towards the end of winter but the water was fairly clean I assume b/c it didn't let light through)

We have bought opening and closing kits from the pool store every year. The year used the 2 bags of "shock", 2 bottles of "algaecide" and it also had a "metal agent" that I did not use b/c I had no idea what it was for. Let the pump run for 24hrs, brushed the sides, vacuumed, "shocked" again before bed and threw in the floating feeder with tablets and the floatron. This is exactly what we did last year and it worked great - we had clear water within a couple days. But I assume b/c the walls had algae and the water was more green is why it's continuing to get cloudier and cloudier?

I have been re-searching the BBB method the last couple of days and I'm intrigued. I haven't bought a test kit yet - I have always used strips from Wal-Mart. They show that I have non-existent ph and alkalinity. Free chlorine ranges from 0-3 depending on when I test. My mother-in-law bought me a bottle of chlorine granules and I was thinking about shocking it again when I get home just to use it up before I started the BBB method but I realized I have no idea how to even go about it and I can't seem to find anything the tells ratios. Like if your pool is this size, use this much of this. But I guess that's the point of using the test kit, huh? So you know how much of what to use to raise ceartin levels by xx amount?

So my question is this - Cloudy - light green tinged water - Where do I start? Shock the heck out of it with bleach? How much? How do I put it in?

Add Borax to raise my ph? How much and how?

Add Baking Soda b/c I don't have alkalinity either? How and how?

Teach me please:)

[aylad]

Hi, and welcome to the group!!

Before we can tell you what you need to add to the water, we need to know a starting point. You need a full set of tests, taken with a drop-based kit. No strips, computer readouts, etc. The kit we recommend is the K-2006 that can be bought online several places, but the cheapest we've found so far is through the Amazon link in my sig. Once we know where you're starting, we can help you get where you need to be.

The Floatron, which you describe as a pretty $200 floating device, is also one that is releasing copper into your water, which is not really a good thing. Copper does have algaecidal properties, but it also is what turns blonde hair, fingernails, and pool liners green when it gets to a certain point. That being said, I would strongly advise you to take a sample of your pool water to a dealer that will test for metals, and have it tested specifically for copper. The "metal agent" that's in your startup kit is probably a sequestrant, which is designed to keep the copper suspended in the water so that it does not precipitate out and stain your liner green. However, that's something that can be addressed later on. If it were my pool, I would take the Floatron out of the pool and repurpose it to a pretty $200 lawn decoration. :)

What is in the chlorine granules that your mother-in-law bought? (Need ingredients--cal-hypo or sodium dichloro......) What size pump and what type and size filter do you have?

I would go to WalMart and get several gallons of plain, unscented bleach, and if they have thehhth 6-way drop kit, get that too.....run a set of tests, post them here, and we can help you go from there. Alternatively, take a sample of pool water to a store that does drop-based testing (you're gonna need to do this to test for copper, anyway) and get a printout of those results, but don't buy any of the stuff they're going to try to sell you, no matter how insistent they are.

I would not shock the pool just yet. I agree that shocking is in order to kill off your algae, but shocking with high levels of copper in the water is going to stain your pool...that's why we need tests results to formulate a game plan.

[Watermom]

To add to Janet's great advice, make sure that a CYA reading is one that you get. We will need that to be able to advise you.

Welcome!

[PoolDoc]

Hi Tina;

+ Each gallon of PLAIN 6% household bleach will add about 2.5 ppm of chlorine to your pool: if your water is already "green-tinged", add 1 gallons to start.
+ Check and see if the Walmarts in your area have the HTH 6-way kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668) -- it is an EXCELLENT value, and compatible with the K-2006, which you'll need, but which will take a week or two to get.
+ Walmart will also have the bleach, and some 20 Mule Team borax -- both in the detergent section. I'd recommend getting 16 gallons of bleach and 6 boxes of borax. Add the borax 2 boxes at time, slowly to your skimmer with the pump running. Wait 4 hours, retest the pH, and repeat until the pH is above 7.2
+ Do NOT add baking soda; it will increase the chance of staining with the copper.
+ Remove the Floatron - unless you don't care about stains or green hair.
+ Do the white bucket test for copper: put 4 gallons of pool water in a CLEAN white plastic bucket. Add 1/2 cup of bleach, and 1/2 cup of baking soda. Mix, and cover. Wait 24 hours, and see if there's any staining or blue sediment on the bottom. If so, you have copper. If not, go ahead and add bleach 2 gallons at time.
+ Run your pump 24/7.

We call test strips, "guess strips" -- they can tell the difference between some chlorine and no chlorine, but that's about all.

[CarlD]

For reference, your pool is about 25,000 gallons (if the measures are exact--33' diam x 4' deep water--you have 25,600 gallons).

[cjblanton07]

Thank you so much everyone!

Well to start I do have a testing kit that came with the floatron that tests for copper. I test once a week or so and if it gets above a certain point I remove it for a few days to let the levels drop back down. So I assume I can test for copper using the drop test they sent?

I currently have left a 1lb bag of "shock" (65.05% sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione) and about 2.5lbs of "chlorinating granules" (71.8% trichloro-s-triazinetrione and 8% Boron sodium oxide).

I put 2.5lbs of the chlorinating granules in last night before bed and let the pump run over night.

Our wal-mart does not have the 6way test or the boarx:( I found the borax at ACE so I'll stop and pick it up there. Wal-Mart does have a 3way test that I'll get for the time being since it's only about $5. We live close to a pretty big city with several wal-marts so I may be able to find it there this weekend if I need to. But I'll start out with PoolDoc's suggestions of amounts.

Oh and do I start with the bleach first? How many gallons at a time? Through the skimmer as well? Then move onto the Borax?

Again thank you! :)

[PoolDoc]

+ You can find any stores in your area that carry the HTH 6-way testkit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668), by following the link, and then clicking the "Look for stores where you can Pick Up Today" link on the Walmart page.

+ Take the Floatron out, and stick to 2 gallon bleach (2 ppm) doses, via the skimmer, till the copper is gone. You'll probably need to do this in the evening, and again in the AM.

+ If you find any 60% algicide that has an ingredient poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] . . . or that just starts with "poly", buy a bottle and use it.

+ Try to get a 6 way, and find out what your CYA level is. Order a K-2006

[cjblanton07]

Ok, the floatron came with a ion test kit. It was .5ppm (high) Took the floatron out and added 2 gallons of bleach this evening and will do the same in the a.m.

I got the 3 way kit just because I won't be able to get to town until this weekend to get the 6 way. I'll order the K-2006 asap.

While my husband added the bleach I tested and the CL was 5.0ppm - is this b/c he was adding bleach and it had already gotten over to the far side of the pool? pH was 6.8 if that very light yellow.

So I just need to continue to add 2 gal bleach p.m. and a.m. and test once a day for copper using my ion kit until all the copper is gone and then start adding borax to raise pH?

Thanks!!

[PoolDoc]

Let's keep the chlorine below 5, till the copper is gone.

Low pH is hard on liners. Don't over do it, but do add borax till you reach 7.0. (Not higher, till the copper is gone!)

[cjblanton07]

Ok - I'll do just 1 gallon of bleach then until the copper test clear. And 1 box of borax every 4hrs until I get to 7.0.

Thanks!

By the way, what's the PF:5 for in my signature?

[PoolDoc]

PF is "Pool Factor", some thing I've used privately for years, and in my local business, but not here. It's just a ratio between your pool and a pool with 1 million pounds of water.

So . . . if you add 1 pound of something that's 100% concentration, like CYA or chlorine gas, you get a 1 ppm increase of that something (CYA or chlorine). On your pool, since it's about 1/5 the size of a million pound pool, you get a 5 ppm increase.

The calculation works like this:

Say you want to know how much a box (4.75 lbs) of borax will increase your borate level. For complicated reasons, pure borax has an effective borate concentration of 11%. So this is the calculation for YOUR pool: 4.75 x 0.11 x 5 = 2.6. SO, each box of borax will add about 2.5 ppm borates to your pool; to reach a 50 ppm level (effective algistatically) you'd need 20 boxes.

Anyhow, having the PF in signatures allows me to more quickly and accurately calculate doses.

[cjblanton07]

Thanks for the explanation:)

[cjblanton07]

Went home at lunch and levels were pretty much the same CL 5.0 pH 6.8 (barely) "ions" .5 But the pool color was much lighter and more blue looking now but still very cloudy - still can barely see the bottom or sides. Added 1 box of Borax and will re-check levels when I get home.

On a side note NO wal-marts in my area have a 6 way test kit. They said there was a walmart within 50miles but I didn't even recognize the name of the town and not even site-to-store shipping. So I'm going to check with Lowe's, k-mart, etc. We're paycheck to paycheck kind of people so I may not be able to order the K-2006 kit until the end of the month.

[cjblanton07]

Well today is my day that I can put a little more attention to the pool. pH is still testing too low so I'll spend the day trying to get it up. Copper still too high so I'll keep doing 1.42 gallons of bleach a.m. and p.m. I'm starting to be able to see the bottom a little bit so I'm going to vacuum today and brush the sides again. Anything different I need to do?

[Watermom]

You need to get the pH above 7.0!

[cjblanton07]

Since the 17th I've added 14.2 gallons of bleach and 7 boxes of Borax. Saturday morning I really started hitting it with the Borax - using a box every couple of hours or so for a total of 5 boxes for the day - the pH stayed the same all day. Sunday morning I finally had a 7.2pH so I did another box of borax and decided to wait since that was 1 more than PoolDoc told me to use and by that night my I had a 7.6pH. So hopefully it won't continue to go up today:(

The water is blue but still cloudy - I can't see anymore algae. It almost looks like borax particles floating in the water - imagine that:)

Chlorine is well above 5.0 FC. Not quite orange but getting close. I didn't add any bleach this morning. I wanted to wait until I could check the FC level. Oh and the "Ions" are down not gone yet but definitely less than they were.

So my question is this - what should I do to maintain what I've done until I can get the Taylor kit? And what chlorine level is safe to swim in? We're going to be hitting 90 this weekend and the kids are dying to get in - they would have gotten in when it was green if I would have let them. :)

Thanks!!

[Watermom]

Unless I missed it, I don't think you have reported a CYA reading. Without it, we can't really advise what chlorine levels you need and are safe to swim in.

[cjblanton07]

Yes ma'am, I can't afford to order the taylor c kit until the end of the month so I attempted to take a water sample to the pool store today.

Unfortunately the girl testing the water was a friend of my husbands family so as she stood there adding drops and looking at charts so talked on and on about family, etc. She dumped all the water out and picked up two buckets of alkalinity increaser (16.99 a piece) and said "chlorine, pH and stabalizer is all good. Your alkalinity is 40 though and it needs to be 90 for your size pool so you'll need two of these" I got out of it by saying I was just stopping in to get it tested and my husband may come later to pick some up. She said "ok, but you may need to get something for pH too b/c this may lower the pH some"

Sooooo, I know you hate to advise without actual #'s but my FC is still well above 5.0 pH still at about 7.6 but the water is still a tinge cloudy. Since she said alkalinity was 40 would adding some baking soda clear any of the cloudiness.

p.s. My husband thinks the water looks great and I should quit worrying about it but I'd like to get it right and then keep it that way. I can't wait to get my Taylor Kit - I have so much fun with the little 3way kit that I know I'll love the Taylor.

[PoolDoc]

It's the pool, not the numbers. There's something to be said for your husbands' point view: if the chlorine is OK, the pH is OK, the water is clear and you are able to maintain chlorine levels . . . GO SWIMMING!

Whatever else sodium bicarbonate (alkalinity increaser) will do, it will NOT clear cloudy water. Your pool store girl is a pool chemistry doofus.

[aylad]

Adding baking soda will raise your alk, but will not clear the water. It also won't lower your pH. If anything, it might raise it just a little. If the pH is between 7.0 and 7.8, and the water is blue, it probably is okay to swim in-- except if chlorine is too high, it may fade or break down swimsuits. Plus, if it's cloudy, it is a danger to have kids swimming who might get into trouble underwater but not seen by someone who could help. So-- it's really your call, but until we know water results other than just "good", we can't tell you for certain which way to go.

Edit: Pooldoc's "post" button is faster than mine today:)

[cjblanton07]

Thanks for the quick responses! I know her, so I know she doesn't know what she's talking about :)

The water is clear just still looks a little cloudy to me, my husband doesn't see the cloudiness so we're good. Thanks for the help.

Like I said can't wait to get my Taylor kit so I can manage it better.

So until then I just maintain my pH at 7.6 and FC below 5.0?

[CarlD]

Yes, it should be fine. If the pool gets green looking get the fc up to 10 and keep it there until it is clear again.

It is going to be very hard to maintain the pool without a test kit. The fifty to seventy dollars for the K2006 will pay for itself many times over.