Ph and alkalinity low, should I wait to adjust

[Cincin5000]

Vinyl liner, ph 7.0, alkalinity 60, chlorine 8.0, I don't know what cya is or how to test for it. Anyways, every year, my alkalinity goes off the charts >240 and I can never get it back down...even hired someone and they couldn't do it either. Even tried some fountain methods...losing battle. My water here has high alkalinity and since I am vacuuming to waste 2X a day and replenishing the water, can I wait until I get the process of vacuuming to waste is over and then test my levels after all that new water is in and adjust or will killing off the algae not work unless it is adjusted? I've never had alkalinity anywhere near in the normal range, so starting this year off low has me a little excited that it might be normal for once, but I don't want to screw it up with raising now with all the new water that I know will raise it, but at the same time, it is pointless to not adjust now if I can't get rid of the algae. I think it is working as the pool started off black(okay, maybe dark dark green with about 5000 tadpoles and 200 frogs) and it is now a milky blue color after 3 days....woot. Also, any suggestions of how to keep alkalinity perfect once I get it there? Thanks.

[Watermom]

Let's worry about the alk once the pool is cleared up. Is there still a lot of debris on the bottom that requires vac to waste twice a day? If not, just work on killing the algae and filtering. Keep the chlorine high. CYA is cyanuric acid and is also called stabilizer. It is kind of like sunscreen for your chlorine. Without some in the water, your chlorine will disappear fast especially on a hot sunny day. We really need to know that test result to be able to give good advice since required chlorine levels are based on CYA levels. (See the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below.

Your pH needs to be bumped up. You can use some 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle at Walmart) to raise it. Once we know your volume, we can suggest amounts.

It sounds like you need a good test kit. The one we recommend is the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C. It will test everything you need including CYA. You can get one through the test kit link in my signature.

We need some more information. What is the volume of the pool, type of filer, size of pump and what all have you put into the pool. (Ingredients, not just "shock.") Then, somebody here can try and help you.

Welcome to the Pool Forum, by the way!

EDIT -- Go ahead and read up on lowering alk. There is a link in my signature below about that, too! Also, read the one about using muriatic acid. We"ll guide you through that process after your pool is cleared up.

[PoolDoc]

Actually, I haven't added that link yet Watermom: it's still here:
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/lowering-swimming-pool-alkalinity-step-by-step.html

[Cincin5000]

Hayward pro series sand model s310t....it's big. And the hayward super pump hp2.0 and 2" inch plumbing...I hope this helps. Water temp 72 degrees
Ph 7.2
Alk 80
Chlorine 11
Cya about 45
I don't know how to test for anything else(lost directions), but I do have the Taylor and an aqua chem(started buying good tests 2 years ago thanks to this site).
Anyways, chlorine has been at an 11 for almost 2 days...not dropping even in sun, so it makes me question if I am performing the cya test correctly as I don't know why it isn't dropping. Never had that problem before. I have no clue what was used to open the pool as a pool guy does come and do that while I am not here(I called and he left message saying 6 bags of a powder chlorine and algeacide). I have this every year when opening the pool. Always gets better if I continue to vacuum to waste 2 x a day to get rid of the algae on bottom for about a week. Should I continue that route or does some of his chemicals need to burn off, but I still want to know reasons for chlorine holding so long....after his initial dose of chlorine, those levels stayed for 3.5 days without dropping. I'm sorry, I'm having total opposite problems than usual and have no clue what I am doing.

[PoolDoc]

If you've oxidized everything, and the pool is cloudy, you won't lose much chlorine from sunlight, since the chlorine no longer has much to do, and since the cloudiness keeps the sun from destroying the chlorine -- it's sticking around.

I wouldn't worry about it -- you can swim at FC=11 with CYA=45, with NO problems. Just need to get the cloudiness filtered out!

[Cincin5000]

Well....back to last years problems, so I decided to post a reply here since it already has some of my info. New numbers:
Water temp 82
Alkalinity 220
Ph 8.0
Chlorine 0
Cya <10 I performed it twice and once was near 0 and the other about 10..I am not a chemist)

Anyways, pool was clearing...I could see bottom for days...not crystal clear, but clear. I did add more water over the last week(alkalinity is off charts on my tap water). I did put 2 tablets of trichloro(99.3%) in the skimmer(I don't know if that is a no no). Anyways, I put in muratic acid tonight...my calculations are in the backyard, but I had just enough that it should bring ph down to 7.8). My pool is about 25,000 gallons and I just put in 5 gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine and I waited about 10 minutes in the dark(no sunlight) and chlorine level is 0. Grrrr...it was nice last week when my chlorine level held for days and now ??? I can no longer see the bottom of the pool....what am I doing wrong. I feel like I just went from one extreme to the complete opposite overnight and I don't know what I did wrong.

[PoolDoc]

Get an OTO -- yellow drops -- test kit, and test with that, if you don't have a K-2006. Do NOT use a DPD color match kit to test when you are adding large amounts of chlorine! If your 12.5% was fresh, you added about 25 ppm of chlorine to your pool . . . which is MORE than enough to bleach out a DPD tablet. Also, your pH test will NOT be reliable when you are adding those sorts of chlorine doses.

I do not understand how you went from CYA=45ppm on May 16, and CYA<10 ppm today. I'm kinda at a loss -- either your test kits are wacko OR you are using strips OR you've added a bunch of water (as in, drained and refilled) or you made some serious errors in your earlier testing.

May 15 <===> May 24
Chlorine 11 <===> Chlorine 0
Ph 7.2 <===> Ph 8.0
Alk 80 <===> Alk 220
Cya ~45 <===> Cya <10

Basically, you've given us results from two completely different pools. I'm hoping you can shed some light on this, because we can't offer any advice, based on these completely contradictory results.

[Watermom]

Make a signature line with your pool specs in it, please. Type of pool, volume, type of filter, size of pump, any equipment you have and whether or not you have a Taylor K-2006 kit or not. Directions are in my signature below.

[Cincin5000]

My pool is probably 4 ft deep on average and I would say that I put at most 5 inches of water in during that time frame. This is my third year of chlorine(I used baquacil for 3 yrs prior to that). My second set of readings is about what my normal pool readings are all summer. I double checked my test results that I came up with aqua chem with pool strips and the pool strips also showed zero chlorine and looked in line for ph and alkalinity with my aqua chem results. I will test tomorrow morning again as well. Oh, and I did test the before I put in any chlorine and put the muratic acid in prior to that as well. I only tested chlorine results again after I put in the chlorine.

[Cincin5000]

Oops....I reread what I had written down and alkalinity was 120 NOT 220(kids really need to let me sleep more...lol). I have probably put around 4 inches of water in. This is my third year of chlorine(I used baquacil for 3 yrs prior to that...doubt that makes a difference at this point, but figured it was a chance to say thanks as the conversion instructions on this site was amazing and saved me $500 that the pool guy wanted). I did test before I put in any chlorine and put the muratic acid in prior to that as well. I only tested chlorine results again after I put in the chlorine on my Taylor kit, aqua chem, and yes, also test strips and all 3 showed 0 for chlorine. This morning, the ph is 7.6 and alkalinity is still 120, chlorine of course is still 0. Still can't see the bottom. I am stumped as to just keep dumping in the chlorine until maybe I get a reading or what is going on. I am so frustrated.

[Watermom]

Follow Ben's advice from above and get an OTO kit. (And, then, do yourself a favor and order the Taylor K-2006 kit from the test kit link in my signature. It will make things so much easier for you!)

[PoolDoc]

Just to reiterate what Watermom said -- you are giving us widely varying test results from a variety of unreliable test methods. 'Guess-strips' aren't always wrong, but they are always unreliable. Cheap OTO chlorine test are very reliable, but not very accurate. Phenol red drop tests may or may not be reliable, depending on the chlorine reading.

Without reliable test results, we can't help you, because we can't come test your pool for you. And, unfortunately pool store test results ARE NOT reliable. (A very few pool store -- maybe 2 - 3% -- are reliable, but the only way to determine that is by comparing your ACCURATE results with theirs.)

[Cincin5000]

Thanks for trying. I decided to trust the test results from the Taylor k-1004, aqua chem prof, test strips, and pool store since all 4 were the same(and i couldnt wait for a test kit to be shipped, but I do agree that the test kit you recommend is much easier to use and when I have it, I will test more often throughout the summer than I do now once everything is balanced) and did research from there. In case anyone was watching this thread or will read it, here is what is suspected to have happened...my cya level was converted to ammonia as I had high levels and my cya was basically gone in a very short amount of time(I could not find any other reason online why my cya levels basically disappeared). Yes, it felt as though I was converting the pool from baquacil to chlorine again, but that night, I added liquid chlorine waited 15 min and added again until I had a reading and then added the calculated amount to raise it to 10(I miscalculated and it was a 12, but...2 days later, my pool is sparkling and everything is balanced. Yay. Thanks for your replies, I appreciate it.

[PoolDoc]

Glad it worked out for you!