Equipment Info and Runtime

[mastamoon]

Hey All,

I wanted to find out some info about my filter/pump in regards to its adequacy in relation to the size of my pool. And based off its specs, how long I should run the system for. Had an issue with algae last year and do not want it to happen again.

Pump - Proline/Speck-Pumpen - PE71-II-V - 1.5HP SPL
Filter - Waterway Clearwater High Rate Sand Filter - 22"
Max Flow Rate - 55 GPM
Max Working Pressure - 35 PSI
Sand - 150 LBS
SqFt Surface Area - 2.64
Pool - 24ft Round, ~14k Gallons?

Pump Pic
http://dl.dropbox.com.KILLED/u/13144052/a2011-09-16%2016.54.21%20%28Large%29.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_HD0LpVoJV4/T6gAvFmaRXI/AAAAAAAACv4/qJYdLqn7L84/s640/pump.jpg

Filter Pic
http://dl.dropbox.com.KILLED/u/13144052/2011-09-16%2016.53.52%20%28Large%29.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H3XYs57wRLg/T6gAvHQkg9I/AAAAAAAACv8/hK0CstPT_r4/s640/filter.jpg

Thank you!

[mas985]

The existence of algae has little to do with your pump or your filter but is usually caused by a low chlorine level relative to the CYA level. Post a full set of test results, including PH, FC, TC, TA & CYA, so we can see your current status.

[mastamoon]

I understand that. Currently in a shock cycle as I just reopened to a clear pool. I don't have a full test kit either, only red/yellow.

This post was more mainly to double check that this pool package we had installed is adequate.. meaning not over/under powered. After vacuuming dead algae off the bottom of the pool last year, only to see it blowing straight back in from the return port, I worry that the filter is either too small, or the pump to large. Or if there is too little/much sand in said filter. Don't believe the pump is 2 stage-able so im just trying to cross things off in my mind to make sure chemicals are the only thing I need to worry about this season.

[mas985]

AG pump size is very hard to gauge based upon just the motor label. But a 1.5 HP SPL is the equivalent of a 1 HP up rated pump which is equivalent to a 3/4 HP full rated pump. Add to that the fact that AG pumps usually have lower head curves, your pump is probably not all that big for that size filter so I would say you are probably ok.

The issue you are seeing could be due to either the filter or the debris you are trying to filter. Most sand filters are suppose capture particles greater than 20 microns but some algae is smaller than that and can travel through the filter. One thing you could try is allowing the filter pressure to rise more before cleaning as that will help to capture smaller debris. Also, I think some people have successfully used DE in sand filters to help with debris capture but I don't have any experience with that.

[mastamoon]

What is SPL exactly? I know it as Sound Pressure Level from my car audio days. :D

I was going to try the DE addition if it happens again, but heard horror stories of it blowing straight into the pool and being a bigger mess. Last year I was just vacuuming to waste basically while having a hose running into the pool.

I had a pool company come to my house and do the vacuuming last week.. He brought his own pump and a cartridge filter.. seemed to handle the algae on the bottom just fine. Could always find a used cart filter for that purpose. Pool guy said I should really just look for a better sand filter, a Hayward is what he recommended. But figured he was trying to sell me something.

Since nobody is replying with a "OMG you have that filter/pump.. no wonder" it at least puts my mind at ease enough not to worry about it.

[PoolDoc]

SPL is a term Mark's using to refer to the AG pool pump ratings. I also need to ask him about it.

ONLY use DE to test your filter to make sure it's working: if it blows through the filter, you know your filter needs repairs (maybe, sand).

We need to back up here: it sounds like you may have been asking about your pump / filter combo, because you have an algae problem? If so, spin that off into the Algae section, post your test results, tell us whether you have (or have ordered) a K2006, link back to this thread for equip info . . . and then let us deal with algae THERE, instead of here.

[mastamoon]

PoolDoc, I don't currently have an algae problem. I was using my algae problem last year as a reason of concern about my pump/filter combo. Know what I'm saying?

[mas985]

SPL means "special". I believe the origin of this is from the fact that most if not all standard AG pumps are already up rated so to get a up rating of that, you need to have a special pump or SPL. Much like up rated pumps, this is a marketing gimmick. Some people insist on "big" pumps but I think the manufactures have recognized the detrimental effects of using a pump that is too large on a small filter so instead, they rate the pump motor nameplate HP much higher with a much lower service factor (< 1.0 SF) but the pump is still using the same impeller as lower the pumps. Think of these pumps as double up rated.

[mastamoon]

Good lord.... :D


SPL means "special". I believe the origin of this is from the fact that most if not all standard AG pumps are already up rated so to get a up rating of that, you need to have a special pump or SPL. Much like up rated pumps, this is a marketing gimmick. Some people insist on "big" pumps but I think the manufactures have recognized the detrimental effects of using a pump that is too large on a small filter so instead, they rate the pump motor nameplate HP much higher with a much lower service factor (< 1.0 SF) but the pump is still using the same impeller as lower the pumps. Think of these pumps as double up rated.

[CarlD]

I'm guessing that the pump is OK for the filter.
The use of DE to test a filter requires more DE than you use to improve filtering. Several of us mods use DE to improve our sand filter's performance and have for years.
1) Back wash.
2) Get your base pressure reading.
3) Add about 1/4 cup of DE to you skimmer while the pump is running.
4) Wait 20-30 minutes then check the pressure reading
5) The goal is to figure out how much DE it takes to raise the pressure by 1 pound.
6) If the pressure has not increased by 1 pound, add another 1/4 cup of DE and wait 20-30minutes again.
7) Repeat until the pressure has increased by 1 pound.
8) If you add too much and return flow drops, or the pressure goes up more than 1 pound, simply backwash again and repeat.
9) Note how much DE it takes to get to the 1 pound increase.
10) Every time you backwash you will need to add that amount of DE to the skimmer.

You should notice that the water is clearer, with an almost polished look.

[PoolDoc]

"Special" as in "New and Improved" as in (we've found a better way to separate you from your money!).

[mastamoon]

The little info I can find online seems to indicate that SPL on pumps is sort of like Peak ratings on audio amplifiers. Its calculated at the point of turn on and seems to be the measurement of power it takes to get that coil spinning up to speed not the power at constant speed.

Either way, I seemed to think that the pump was too much for the filter, not underpowered so what ever the actual output of mine is, it seems fine.

Actually its rather annoying as when I clean the strainer with the pump running.. it tends to start pulling in air from the strainer sans basket. But changing the strainer with the pump off is messy so I just try to do it quickly and make sure there is ample water in the pool.


"Special" as in "New and Improved" as in (we've found a better way to separate you from your money!).

[CarlD]

We find that what people usually think of as "undersized" pumps means not over-sized. With a 1hp full-rated pump generally your filter would be too small and you would need a 200-250. sand filter. But if the calculation is correct and it is really equivalent of a 3/4hp full-rated you should be fine, and your pool doesn't need any more than that.

[PoolDoc]

The little info I can find online seems to indicate that SPL on pumps is sort of like Peak ratings on audio amplifiers. Its calculated at the point of turn on and seems to be the measurement of power it takes to get that coil spinning up to speed not the power at constant speed.

That's the rationalization for SPL; not it's true meaning! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I think I was right the first time! :cool:

[mas985]

Not to mention that a typical 1 HP up rated (non-SPL) AG pump is smaller than a typical 1 HP uprated IG pump. So a 1.5 HP SPL will be smaller than a typical low end 3/4 HP full rated IG pump. I think I might of posted this graph before but it illustrates the difference between AG and IG pumps and how label HP can be very deceiving.


Pump Label HP Ratings

Most in the industry have long understood that pump labels can be very deceiving. It is bad enough that manufactures have chosen to have two classes of IG pumps, up rated vs full rated, but AG pumps and combo systems add even more confusion around what these HP labels actually mean.

The chart below shows the flow rates of several Pentair and Hayward low label HP IG and AG pool pumps on two of the CEC plumbing curves, Curve-A and Curve-C. The higher the flow rate, the more powerful the pump.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yYpjUqJZok0/T6mESIS86mI/AAAAAAAAApQ/Y2wF3lQo8zY/s800/Pump_Comparison.jpg

Even when comparing IG up rated pumps, there is clearly a large difference between the Whisperflo and Superflo line of pumps that have the same label HP. But the difference is just as great when comparing IG to AG pool pumps with the same label HP. Both the Optiflo and Dynamo are significantly smaller than even the Superflo with the same label HP rating.

However, it doesn't end there. If you compare the impellers used in some of the combo systems, you will find that the impeller is smaller than even the up rated version of the same pump. In the manual they call this SPL HP. The bottom line is that a 1 1/2 HP (SPL) Dynamo pump/Filter combo uses a 1 HP up rated impeller which is equivalent to a 3/4 HP full rated impeller but still smaller than 3/4 HP up rated Superflo impeller which makes the pump a very small pump, especially by IG standards.

So the lesson here is that you cannot judge a pump's power or strength just by the label HP rating.

[PoolDoc]

Thanks, Mark.

This is the sort of analysis that is moving us toward being able to actually offer comprehensible and helpful advice on selecting and comparing equipment

[mastamoon]

Ill keep an eye out for a good deal on craigslist I guess. I knew buying a pool package from Namco/Branchbrook would net us the cheapest possible configuration most likely.

All of this for a pool I dont even use. Ah well.

Thanks for the info fellas.