Extremely cloudy green water.

[JeremyBlake]

We're just getting our pool opened for the year and we had a lot of algae in the bottom of the pool. We used Aquachem and it's showing all levels are correct but the water is still pretty green and cloudy. (Link to picture below) It's a 24 foot round pool, roughly 13,000 gallons, our pH is at 7.6, FC is 1.5 and the test strips said this was all ok. We've used 3 lbs of powdered shock.

http://f.cl.ly.KILLED/items/0u1m1Y1l0A313s3x3K1R/photo-1.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l7y_too2L04/T6c93qmyoKI/AAAAAAAACvs/a54nrhjw5-8/s640/photo-1.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Ok, we're seeing a LOT of these this spring. Quickly:

1. If you have a sand filter, put the valve on "Recirculate"; if you have a cartridge filter, take out the cartridge -- but leave the pump running for both.
2. PF = 11 => 1 gallon of plain 6% household bleach adds ~5 ppm chlorine. Put 3 gallons in, ASAP.
3. Get a cheap OTO test kit (see testkit page link in my sig for more info). You can get both bleach and kit at Walmart, usually.
4. Add bleach each evening following at the rate of 3 gallons each time, UNLESS OTO shows orange just prior to addition.
5. Order a K2006 -- we're going to need to know what's really in your pool; guess-strips can't really measure one of the more critical factors, your stabilizer level.
6. Tell me EXACTLY what chemicals you have on hand; close doesn't count, because "shock" doesn't have any particular meaning, and pool chemical companies play all sorts of nasty games with ingredients.
7. Tell me make/model of your pump and your filter, and how many skimmers and inlets you have.

More when we have your info . . .

Good luck!

[JeremyBlake]

Thanks for the quick reply. Here's what we've used so far:

1) Aquachem Shock Xtra Blue - main ingredient is sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione - 3 lbs
2) Aquachem pH Up
3) Aquachem Algaecide 50% [green algae]
4) Aquachem Super Water Clarifier
5) Aquachem Chroinating Granules and two 3 inch Aquachem chlorinating tablets
6) 1 1/2 gallons of bleach

Hayward S180T Filter
Hayward 1.5 HP Power-Flo LX Pump

[PoolDoc]

Be CERTAIN you put the filter on RECIRCULATE; do NOT let the algae go through the sand filter! Let me known when you have the OTO kit, and what the results are.

The clean up will need to go in two stages:
+ First, you need to kill all the algae, by getting the chlorine high enough so that the water goes from greenish, to cloudy blue. After that happens, you'll need to re-dose with bleach and then brush the pool, to stir up algae on the bottom.
+ Second, you'll need to remove the algae. It won't filter with the sort of undersized sand filter matched with an oversized pump! You'll need to vacuum to waste.

Questions:
1. Do you have any of those chemicals left? If so, do NOT use them; use bleach instead
2. Do you have a manual vacuum set -- head, pole, hose long enough to reach the middle of the pool AND hang down to the ground at the same time.
3. Verify that your filter valve has a RECIRCULATE and a WASTE position.
4. Do you have a valve between the pump and the filter, that wold allow you to throttle flow? Do you have a valve downstream of the filter?

KEY POINTS:
1. Do NOT run the algae laden water through the filter; doing so will make things worse.
2. Do NOT let the chlorine level go below DARK YELLOW on the OTO kit; you'll need to get it up in to the "ORANGE" range (not shown on the kit!)
3. Add a box of 20 Mule Team Borax for good measure; low pH can hurt your pool; high pH under these circumstances is preferable.

[JeremyBlake]

Quick update. I looked all over for a good OTO kit. Nobody had one anywhere. We called the local pool place and they basically tried to get me to bring in a sample so they could sell me more chemicals. I ordered a kit online and it should be here in a few days. (Couldn't find a site that offered next day or two day mail) We've put about 10 gallons of bleach in so far. It smells like a perfectly clear/clean pool, but it's still really cloudy and pretty green, although less green than yesterday. Even at night when i take a Maglight to look into the water i can't see further than maybe 6 inches deep. It's starting to seem like it's going to take forever to get cleared up. We bought some Borax, but i'm not sure how much to put in right now, as our testing kit we have now isn't very good. Is there anything else i should do for the next few days until i can get you an accurate reading? Thanks for all the help so far, by the way. :)

[Watermom]

That is surprising that you can't find an OTO kit. Walmart has them every time I look. K-mart probably does, too. And, a pool place that doesn't have an OTO? That's pretty weird! Just to verify that you are looking for the right thing --- the OTO/Phenol Red kit is the one with the yellow and red drops.

Hope that good kit arrives soon!

[PoolDoc]

I looked all over for a good OTO kit.

A *good* one, like the K-1000, maybe not. But as Watermom noted, a *good-enough-for-now* one is almost certainly available at Walmart, Kmart, Lowes, Home Depot, or Ace Hardware.

Also, while the water is still very cloudy, take the filter cartridge OUT -- we're beginning to suspect that running the algae particles through a filter that does NOT trap them, fractures the particles and makes them even harder to filter, later.

Walmart Supercenter
3333 U.S. 60, Huntington, WV
(304) 525-8889

Kmart
5636 US Route 60 # 14, Huntington, WV
(304) 736-7813

Ace Hardware
4358 5th Street Rd, Huntington, WV
(304) 529-1090

Also, based on some on-going investigations in this sort of problem -- which is affecting a LOT of people this year -- you may want to consider getting everything listed below, if your budget is not tight. Floc products are selling out nationally, probably because the warm spring has affected millions of pool owners, so to have it when you need it, you would need to order now. If you buy locally, be EXTREMELY careful to get the EXACT product listed below; there is a LOT of deceptive selling going on; even pool stores don't usually know the difference.

PAC (polyaluminum floc)
GLB Pool & Spa Products 71408 1-Quart Drop n' Vac Pool Water Clarifier (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002KT6TY/poolbooks) @ Amazon -OR-
Blue Wave Super Floc 4 x 1 qt. @ Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B007YUQTT0/poolbooks) - 4 days to ship -OR- Proteam Superfloc Clarifier (if it's available locally)

[JeremyBlake]

Sorry for the miscommunication. I should have said i don't have a good OTO kit, but we already had a cheap one. We've bleached and bleached. I'll provide pictures of the kit results (Which stayed about the same color overnight, even through a heavy rain) and a newer picture of the pool. The water is still greenish, although lighter, but it's as cloudy as before. You can see how cloudy by the fact you can barely see the return that's only a few inches below the water. As far as the filters, we use a sand filter with a top and bottom skimmer, so i don't think i can use the cartridges?

http://maxcdn.nexternal.com/poolcenter/images/hayward-proseries-sand-filter-ag-lg.jpg
http://f.cl.ly.KILLED/items/1z0d1Q051g0k0o0g0w3j/photo-1.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uTk_okEtmUg/T6lir17kSqI/AAAAAAAACwo/1gn4S17rNuo/s288/photo-2.JPG
http://f.cl.ly.KILLED/items/1g1s0m1R3i2u1V210y2B/photo-2.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RDgEpZzMaeI/T6lisebh5uI/AAAAAAAACww/S6k7ujf6P1c/s400/photo-1%2520%25282%2529.JPG

[PoolDoc]

Sorry about the cartridge info -- I mixed up your cloudy water with someone else's.

That orange = 20 ppm chlorine. Since you have 20ppm TC with THAT water, I'm guessing you have high CYA. You don't have any idea what it is, do you? I'm reluctant to tell you to add more chlorine, until I know, since you could end up bleaching your liner if the CYA is low.

For now, go ahead and use those Aquachem Shock Xtra blue -- it's dichlor + borax + a little copper. The copper will be gone before this mess is cleaned up, and the dichlor adds CYA, so it's a safer way to chlorinate, till we know your CYA level. Put it ALL in. (3lbs, you said?). Go ahead and put your Aquachem tabs in the skimmer, too.

[JeremyBlake]

It's fine, i wasn't aware that i could add to my signature yet because my posts still have to be approved, or i would have added info before now. I added 4 lbs of the Xtra Blue and we'll buy a few more chlorine tablets tonight as well. I have a box of Borax, but i'm not sure how much to add. We ordered a test kit last night, and of course with my luck, we get an email today saying it was canceled because they had none in stock, so we'll have to order again somewhere else tonight. In the mean time, my local pool place told us they have strips that can test the CYA. Is that even worth getting or is it too inaccurate?

[aylad]

Don't bother checking CYA with the strips. While you're waiting for the kits to come back in stock, try going to WalMart and see if they have the hth 6-way kit for around $20. It has the same CYA test in it that the K-2006 has.

[PoolDoc]

Test strips can't do more than distinguish 'probably has got some CYA vs probably hasn't got some CYA' . That's not quite what's needed. You might check and see if the Walmart in your area has "HTH 6-way test kit" -- some do, and it's an HTH labeled Taylor kit that does include the CYA test. You'll have to add supplemental kits later, but if you can find that kit, it would provide what's needed right now.

Check your pH before you add borax - but the way to add it is slowly, through the skimmer, with the pump running OR dissolved in hot water. If you dump it in your pool, it may still be laying there in a week.

When you re-order, the K2006C does cost more, but is a better deal, and is more likely to be in stock.

[JeremyBlake]

Thanks for the replies. We were lucky enough to get what seems like the last quart of GLB Drop n' Vac on the planet, so that's ready whenever it gets to that point. We looked for the HTH kit in several Walmarts and couldn't find any. Then we did an online order from Walmart for it (It said it was available for pickup within 5 hours) and got an email a few hours later saying it wasn't in stock. So that's two kits, two canceled orders. The pool place that had the GLB Drop n' Vac about an hour away had a K-2005 kit in stock but we didn't know if that was sufficient enough. Finding ANY kit seems to be almost impossible for some reason. I'll keep looking to buy online and locally though. We just tested the pH and it was between 7.6 and 7.8

[PoolDoc]

Janet, we need an "I've got it, flag" when one of us has a post open . . . ;)

[Watermom]

You don't want the K-2005. Have you looked at Lowe's or Home Depot for an OTO kit? Or Lorrison's in Teay's Valley?

[JeremyBlake]

Ordered the K-2006C kit. Should be here between Thursday and Wednesday (Next Wednesday) Until then should i basically give up everything other than keeping the TC level above 10, or are there other steps i should do to keep improving the situation until then?

[PoolDoc]

Keep the chlorine high, and the pH between 7 and 8.

And, if your pump has a 2 speeds, run it on LOW. Your filter will be MUCH more effective at lower flow rates.

[JeremyBlake]

Ok, the kit came in today. I have a quick question first though. Should we turn the pump on to circulate the water to get a more accurate test or let it settle first?

[Watermom]

Let it run for a few minutes before collecting a water sample.

[JeremyBlake]

pH - 7
FC - 24 (Woah)
CC - 2
TC - 26
Alk - 150
CYA - 60-70

[Watermom]

Yeah, that is some pretty high chlorine! A pH test is inaccurate when chlorine is that high. With a K-2006, it should be accurate when the chlorine drops below 15ppm. Retest it when your chlorine drops.

FYI for anybody else reading this thread, pH is not accurate when chlorine is above 5ppm for other kits.

[JeremyBlake]

We haven't added any chlorine at all since Tuesday and every test we did (before we got the 2006 kit today) showed the level never lightened up at all. It's stayed consistently the same color since then. Anything we can do to drop chlorine levels quickly?

[PoolDoc]

But, what does it look and smell like? And, were you able to vacuum the sediment off the bottom successfully?

[JeremyBlake]

It actually smells really clean. We left the pump off a few days to let everything settle and the water was cloudy, but not nearly as dirty or green. We didn't vacuum anything yet because we wanted to test everything first. Should we leave the pump off overnight and vacuum it then test again? At what point do we use the flock? After all levels are right or before?

[PoolDoc]

Best way to lower it? Go swimming!

Seriously, even when the sun doesn't take it out, body goo will! And, 26 ppm is NOT too high to swim in with CYA > 50 ppm.

Just to be safe though - wear last year's swim suits! Chlorine is much harder on Lycra, than people.

[JeremyBlake]

Should we use the GLB Drop N Vac now then? I mean, the algae has to all be dead. I'm pretty sure i've even seen birds dropping out of the sky from 100 yards away. Haha. Not really, but seriously, my neighbor's house is 40 yards from mine and he can smell the chlorine from his driveway. Is it better to get our levels right before we use the Drop N Vac or should we use it now, vacuum all the gunk out of the bottom and then test our levels?

[BigDave]

Your neighbor's probably smelling stuff comprising the 2ppm CC. The presence of CC indicates the FC in your pool is still doing work.
I'd definitely vaccuum the stuff that's already settled before using the floc/clarifier.

[PoolDoc]

Should we use the GLB Drop N Vac now then?

You can use the PAC anytime you like -- I had to check, but high chlorine does not affect it. You might want to do a 5 gallon white bucket test of pool water and 1/8 teaspoon of the PAC mixed, and allowed to stand for 24 hours. (If the bottle is labeled for less than 20,000 gallons, use 1/4 teaspoon.) Flocculant behavior is not fully predictable, and even though PAC performance is more stable than alum, if you have time to test first, that's good.

[JeremyBlake]

Ok, we vacuumed yesterday without the drop n' vac, then we put the drop n vac in last night and vacuumed again today. Definitely making progress. There's a ton of algae being washed out. We're doing the same thing again today. We brushed the sides really well while the pump ran after putting the drop n vac in. We haven't re-tested anything but chlorine levels yet, but we'll do that after vacuuming again tomorrow. As of today our FC is 10.5, CC .5, and TC is 11. So it's dropped a lot in the last week or so. (from a TC level of 26) Here's the latest picture.
http://f.cl.ly.KILLED/items/0m3r3G1F1J47190k2j3x/photo-1.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mCFIERP5CAc/T7RKmhxIC6I/AAAAAAAAC4Q/6J8bxgUX0mA/s640/photo-3.JPG

We can actually see the bottom now, but it's still pretty cloudy. I'm guessing the CYA is still high, so we'll test tomorrow after we vacuum and drain a bit more. Anything else i'm missing or are we on the right track now? Thanks a bunch for all the help. I'd still have a green, nasty pool without all of your help. :)

[PoolDoc]

Great!

[JeremyBlake]

Thanks everybody. The algae is gone! We've tested, and we're ready to fill up. Just want to double check a few things and see what needs added. Vacuuming to waste got rid of about 1 - 1.5 feet of water, and here are our latest results.

FC - 6.5
CC - .5
TC - 7
pH - 6.8 to 7. (Probably closer to 7)
Alk - 90
CYA - 48

I'd really like to raise the pH about .3 or so if possible, to be safe. I have baking soda and borax ready to go, just need to know what to add. Again, thanks for all the help, you guys rock. :)
http://f.cl.ly.KILLEd/items/3f1C3J3g3r030v3g2z05/photo-1.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wZbCD0VLLoU/T7RKmIZ927I/AAAAAAAAC4I/bGQO-iwhnOY/s800/photo-4.JPG

[PoolDoc]

Add borax 1/2 box at a time.

[Watermom]

Add it to the skimmer slowly while the pump is running, breaking up any clumps.

[JeremyBlake]

Looks like we are good. All levels are where they need to be. Can't thank you guys enough. Last question. (I think, lol) When we close the pool at the end of the year, what exactly do we need to do? Just trying to get this implanted in my head now so i don't feel lost in September/October.
http://f.cl.ly.KILLED/items/0J351D0m123v3Y161D43/photo-4.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NWxw6FwMgkw/T7Y_NWQUanI/AAAAAAAAC5Q/Hg9DQ9d8vyU/s800/photo-5.JPG

[Watermom]

Wow! What a change? The pool looks great!

Regarding closing --- read the stickies at the top of the pool closing section of the forum. if there are questions that you have that are not answered there, let us know.