Help - Green clear water

[masspool]

Hi All
My pool was opened 6 days ago. Water was down three plus feet. so I filled it with town municipal water (known to be high in metals). The guy, who opened my pool, added liquid chlorine when he opened the pool. Pool opened green and now is more green but clear.

I have my chlorine feeder loaded with trichlor pucks. I also shocked with one bag of Leslies Power Powder Plus (Cal Hypo).

My total chlorine and free chlorine are above 6.

PH is 7.2 TA is 60

pool is inground 16 x 32. Vinyl liner. I estimate 18,000 gallons.

I have had metal problems in the past. The Municpal water is well known to have a lot of metal in it. Local Lesliies store says it sells more Metal Free out of this location than most other stores.

In the past I have added Metal Free and the problem has been solved. I have also had to do the ascorbic acid treatment in one past year to get stains off of the walls of my pool.

So this year, I have added 3 bottles of Metal Free (Natural Chemistry brand), with NO change.

I put some vitamin C tablets in a sock and rubbed the wall of the pool in one spot, but no change. Makes me think the metal is in the water but hasn't stained the liner yet?

I don't think it is algae, because the pool walls don't feel slimy, the water is clear, and I have been running with high chlorine for 6 days.

Anyway.......Help.......what do I do ??????

[masspool]

more readings from today
FC = 7.2
TC = 7.2
CC= 0.0
PH = 7.3
Hardness = 80
Alkalinity = 47 ppm
Cyanuric Acid = 10

[aylad]

Hi masspool,

It sounds to me like the stains are already there but yellowish--which combined with blue water will appear green. I don't know what to tell you to do, but am bumping this post up so that others may be able to help you.

How are you testing your water? I'm a little suspicious of your TA and CYA readings -- the only reliable test I know for CYA (the turbidity test) can't distinguish CYA levels less than 30 ppm.....and you report a drop in TA from 60 to 47 over a 12 hour period...

[masspool]

Update

Last night I added two quarts of ClearView brand "Mineral Magnet" I had read that Natural Chemistry had changed the formulation of its Metal Free product (and the new bottles are labeled "New and Improved"). So I wanted to try something else to get rid of metals.

Water is still green this morning- yet clear - not cloudy and not slimy. Sort of a lime color. At this point, I have spent too much on metal removers, so am going to shift my focus.


My idea now is to remove the Leslie Trichlor tabs from the feeder ( I want to isolate the problem and get everything else out of the equation). And to bring my pool up to shock level using bleach. Based on my low stabalizer levels I think I should bring the FC up to about 12.

Does this sound like a good plan?

I don't think I have stains on the pool liner, as I tried rubbing a sock of Vitamin C piils on the wall and it didn't do anything. Also, my pool stairs are white and they are not stained. The water above/over the stairs does look green, though.

[TheGoose]

How did you measure the CYA at 10? I think the kit I have only goes to about 20 ppm or so.

[masspool]

Hi TheGoose & aylad:

I'll re-check that CYA and TA measurements tonight

Thanks for the help. We've had this pool for nine years - and this is the first for me. Clear, Green and won't respond to the metal treatments

Maybe it really is some weird (non slimy and clear) algae?

[aylad]

Take a look at the ingredient label on your trichlor pucks--almost all of the pucks available around here also contain copper, which can stain walls green.

If the coloration is from metals precipitating, that usually happens when chlorine and TA levels are high. Your TA level is not, but shocking with any type of chlorine--trichlor, bleach, or anything else--will help the metals drop out. I would let the Cl stay low--in the 3-5 ppm range--and see if that makes a difference. It will also inhibit any algae from growing until Pooldoc or one of the other metals gurus around here can see this to offer advice.

[masspool]

Hi All:

UPDATE

It rained hard today here in Central Massachusetts (the rain is obviously acidic here)

It has been cold the last week or so (32 degrees at night to 55 as a high during the day).... the pool is not heated so the water is very cold.

I came home from work to find that, during the day, the pool has turned from Lime green to blue.

This is strange....don't know whether all of the metal-control chemicals finally kicked in? Or, something else changed (the PH and chlorine both did decrease from yesterday) Or was there something else at work here ?

using a Taylor K2006 test kit, I recorded the following readings:
FC=5.0
CC=0.5 (so TC is 4.5)
-
PH=7.0
TA= 40
CYA = 35 (halfway between 30 and 40)

Anyway, I suppose I should bring up the PH a little (to 7.2 or so) ?

BTW: The pucks are still in my in-line chlorine feeder - and I have not shocked the pool since Saturday - nor have I added any chlorine since saturday (no bleach, no powder) other than via the feeder

[aylad]

I would bring the pH up a little, since the trichlor is very acidic and will drive it downward.

[Watermom]

One correction on your chlorine readings. FC + CC = TC. So, it isn't possible for your numbers to be as you listed them above.

[masspool]

Quick Update:

Continues to rain here - and air temps are cool at 45 - 55 degrees

PH drifted down below 7.0 yesterday and I added soda ash last night.

I retested PH this morning and it was 7.0, so I added some more soda ash this morning

TC = 5.0
FC = 5.0
CC = 0

Pool (thankfully) is still blue

I stocked-up on bleach jugs at walmart, but have not introduced anything new to the pool - other than the chlorine that it is getting via the in-line feeder

[masspool]

SO....
Yesterday morning (May 7th) the water was blue (and it has been blue for several days)

It warmed up and was sunny yesterday and the air temp hit around 70 degrees (I mention this because the pool water warmed up as well)

I returned home from work and the pool had changed to a light, very clear, green

I did a quick PH and TC test and the PH was 7.2 and the TC was at 6. Just to be sure, one again, that this is not an algae problem, I added three 96 OZ jugs of 6% bleach.

This Morning the pool is still clear, light green. And, this morning, I broke out my Full Taylor test kit and took a full set of readings. It is raining lightly.

They are :
TC = 11.5
CC = 0
PH = 7.2
TA = 80
CYA < 30 ( I can still barely make-out the dot with the tube filled to the top)


(Over this past weekend I had vacuumed the pool and added Arm & Hammer to bring the TA up to 80 (from 40) - the pool walls and bottom are nice and clean)

I am assuming, with the high chlorine levels, that this is definitely a metal problem.

I need some advice. I did buy a culator pack from the local Leslies ($25 ouch) and have that in the skimmer, but I understand this will take awhile to help.

Should I add some more Metal Magnet to the pool??????


Thanks

[masspool]

Interesting:

During the evening of May 8th, I added a quart of sequestering agent (this is the only thing I added). By last night (May 9th), the pool has returned to a clear blue color. I am cautiously happy.

[PoolDoc]

Hi Mass;

All sequestering agents are temporary in their effect, so the improvement in your water is also temporary. However, if the CuLater works as advertised (we're not sure yet), it's the only product that can remove metals (iron, in your case) from the water even while it's sequestered.

We hope it does work as advertised -- it would be a very useful tool for quite a few people. But, you'll want to watch. They claim a color change as the material captures metal from the water. Also, once the iron begins to be released from the sequestering agent, it will begin to stain things. If you run your pump continuously, what it's likely to stain is your filter (which is OK) and the interior of your skimmer. So, you may want to watch for that.

Good luck . . . and please let us know how it goes. (We'd like to know if the CuLator product DOES work.)

[masspool]

Just thought I'd leave an update. My pool has remained blue over the last three weeks. I did add sequestering agent once - one morning I detected the beginning of a greenish tint in the water (and added the sequestering stuff) and by the evening it was back to pure blue. I have not had to add any fill water, as we have had plenty of rain.

And, the CuLator doesn't appear to have changed color yet.

[PoolDoc]

Thanks so much for the info. I'd really like to get a better understanding, this year, of how metals behave in pools, and responses like yours really help.

I wonder if you could do 3 things:

(1) Tell me how you've been testing. (Do you have a K2006, TFP100 or ?)
(2) Tell me what sequestering agent you used.
(3) Do white bucket tests on both the pool water and your fill water - to see if metals remain in either one.

First two are easy, of course. If you're willing to do bucket tests, here's how it goes:

1. Get a clean white 5 gallon bucket
2. Add 4 gallons of test water (do the pool first, fill water second)
3. Add 1/4 cup each of plain bleach and 1/8 cup of baking soda to the water, and mix till the soda is dissolved.
4. Cover and wait 2 days -- leave the bucket where it won't be moved or disturbed.
5. Check for sediment on the bottom, especially color.
6. Tell me what you find.

[masspool]

(1) I use the Taylor K-2006 test kit

(2) I use Clearview Mineral Magnet (by OREQ) sequestering agent.
(Note: At the beginning of the season (over the course of a week) I used three bottles of Natural Chemistry Metal Free and it did not get my pool to turn blue. I am not sure whether I had so much metal in my water, because I added so much fill water when I opened the pool, that it didn't reach the tipping point with the Natural Chemistry MF or whether the Natural Chemistry isn't effective. Anyway I switched to the Clearview Mineral Magnet and the pool turned blue in a couple of days.)


(3) Haven t had a chance to do the white bucket test


My pool has remained blue over the last six or seven weeks, but I haven't had to add any fill water (lots of rain)

My CuLator pack floated in the skimmer for about five weeks - and then sank to the bottom of the skimmer basket

[PoolDoc]

And, the CuLator doesn't appear to have changed color yet.

Did it ever change color? We're not sure how well they work, but we are fairly sure they are a good presence/absence test for metals.

[masspool]

Did it ever change color? We're not sure how well they work, but we are fairly sure they are a good presence/absence test for metals.

The CuLator bag has brownish-rust colored spots and streaks, but the whole bag has not changed color. The spotting is about the same color as my skimmer basket, which is probably ten years old.

Also the outer Culator bag has worn through (sort of torn), but there is a second layer-inner bag that is still intact.

[PoolDoc]

.
.
If you are done with the CuLator, can you cut it open, and see if the plastic particles are discolored?



Here's what you are looking for

http://www.culator.com/sites/default/files/Metals%20Bound%20Display.JPG

[masspool]

I just cut the CuLator open.....there are three clear marbles and some powder. The powder looks like the Low level Iron picture above in spots - combined with Nickel in areas

[PoolDoc]

pictures, can you take pictures??

(We're trying to get all the info we can on the product!)

[masspool]

I have a picture of the CuLator cut-open on top of a white paper towel


How do I upload it?

[PoolDoc]

email it to me at poolforum.com, or upload it to Picasa, Photobucket, Flickr, or Webshots, and post the link.

[masspool]

Ben:

I emailed a pic , last night, to pooldoc@poolforum.com

let me know if you didn't receive it

[PoolDoc]

Culator opened 3 July 2012 after X? weeks of service.

Pictures:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eiBR0nPycM8/T_RMZdJ3_-I/AAAAAAAADfs/c8P4GOq2UQ0/s800/culator%2520-%2520opened%252020120703.jpg


Detail:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9IQSqijIqA0/T_RMZcNRA_I/AAAAAAAADfk/IXooC-ACds0/s800/detail.jpg


Color 'adjusted' detail:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-y3kiOf6V2As/T_RMZGsXQSI/AAAAAAAADfo/yejnmIPYd6E/s800/color%2520adj%2520detail.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Which looks closer to the actual CuLator: the detail or the 'color-adjusted' detail?

How long was it in the skimmer?

In the detail, it looks like more of the discoloration was in the bag, than in the beads. Is that correct?

[masspool]

Which looks closer to the actual CuLator: the detail or the 'color-adjusted' detail?

How long was it in the skimmer?

In the detail, it looks like more of the discoloration was in the bag, than in the beads. Is that correct?


Answers:

1. Color adjusted
2. 9.5 weeks (it went into the skimmer on April 27)
3. The bag was more discolored than the particles/beads. I saw light low-level iron stain in some of the particles/beads. I then asked my wife to take a look. She discerned green (nickel) color in addition to the iron, in some of the particles. After she pointed out the nickel, I saw it too. The nickel and iron colors on the particles were not real strong.