Clorox Outdoors Now what??

[kerweb]

Fighting some murky/milky water. Anyway 3 1.41 gallon bottles of Clorox Outdoors was added. Rained last night and now have 1 inch foam balls covering 20% of pool and the rain actually beads up for about half a second. Clorox outdoors has more stuff in it then I can name. But from the website:
1. Cetyl betaine is used to thicken cleaning formulas and stabilize foam.
2. Sodium carbonate, also known as washing soda and soda ash, is an alkalinity builder, which is added to laundry detergents to improve cleaning efficiency. It also helps remove alcohol and grease stains from clothing.
3. Sodium hydroxide, also known as caustic soda or lye, is used as a pH adjuster in cleaning products. As an alkali, it is useful in cleaning products for removing soils that are fatty, oily or acidic.
4. Sodium silicate is often used as a corrosion inhibitor in detergents to protect metal components of washing machines. It also prevents soils from redepositing on fabrics during the wash cycle.
5. Sodium xylene sulfonate is generally used to stabilize other ingredients in a cleaning product to maximize effectiveness of the formula. It is also useful as a co-thickener (in combination with other ingredients) in cleaning products.
6. Propylene glycol butyl ether is used as a solvent and grease remover in glass and all-purpose cleaners, as well as in other household and industrial cleaning products.

No numbers available as it is raining but before I left for a day all good except TC/CC.
24' AG

Any help or ideas? Burn it out with "normal" bleach, partial water exchanges? Did I just kill(coat) my sand in the filter ith this stuff?

Thanks

[aylad]

Definitely don't use any more of it-go back to plain, unscented bleach at shock level. Your filter will eventually catch it all, and it should backwash out.

[kerweb]

Definitely don't use any more of it-go back to plain, unscented bleach at shock level. Your filter will eventually catch it all, and it should backwash out.

Trust me it wasn't on purpose. Kids grab it when I was gone. I said grab Clorox and that was what they grabbed. Although seeing water bead on water is pretty cool for that half second.

[CarlD]

You may try to skim the goop off the surface, but I'm not sure what else you can do. shocking with plain LC/bleach may do it. The chemists here may have a better plan.

[PoolDoc]

----------- not completed -- will finish later ---------------------

Hm-m-mh. That's why we try to emphasize "plain 6% household bleach"

#1 - Cetyl betaine
#2 - Sodium carbonate - "pH Plus" -- raises pH and alkalinity; not a problem.
#3 - Sodium hydroxide - raises pH; not a problem.
#4 - Sodium silicate Not very dangerous, but not necessarily leaving the pool, either. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate)
#5 - Sodium xylene sulfonate Science Lab MSDS (www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925054). Not very dangerous, used in shampoos, not sure how low it will persist in pool
#6 - Propylene Glycol n-Butyl Ether Not very dangerous, should evaporate in within a week. 2008 Dow Chemical safety page (http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_0119/0901b80380119ff1.pdf?filepath=productsafety/pdfs/noreg/233-00409.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc) (archived)

[kerweb]

Hm-m-mh... That is what happens when 18 year old goes shopping w/ girl friend for you!

Oh well, it doesn't appear to be the end of the pool at least for now. Still got some foam forming and beading happening, turned outlet up to hit surface in effort to help make more foam and maybe get rid of it faster. Seems to have helped as it doesn't stay as long as before.

Thanks PoolDoc.

[waterbear]

----------- not completed -- will finish later ---------------------

Hm-m-mh. That's why we try to emphasize "plain 6% household bleach"

#1 - Cetyl betaine
This is an amphoteric surfactant (synthetic detergent) and one of the causes of the foaming. I will eventually break down. An enzyme product with hasten the breakdown.
#2 - Sodium carbonate - "pH Plus" -- raises pH and alkalinity; not a problem.
#3 - Sodium hydroxide - raises pH; not a problem.
#4 - Sodium silicate Not very dangerous, but not necessarily leaving the pool, either. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate)
Also called "waterglass". Will tend to act as a flocculant and should eventually filter out. Not harmful.
#5 - Sodium xylene sulfonate Science Lab MSDS (www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925054). Not very dangerous, used in shampoos, not sure how low it will persist in pool
This is an anionic surfactant (synthetic detergent) and hydrotrope (soap like substance) often used as a foaming agent and foam stabilizer. It will also eventually break down. Once again, an enzyme product can help.
#6 - Propylene Glycol n-Butyl Ether Not very dangerous, should evaporate in within a week. 2008 Dow Chemical safety page (http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_0119/0901b80380119ff1.pdf?filepath=productsafety/pdfs/noreg/233-00409.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc) (archived)
hope this helps.

[chem geek]

In general, chlorine takes a very long time to get rid of most surfactants. Chlorine doesn't react with the long-chain saturated hydrocarbon and the nitrogen in the cetyl betaine is like an amide that doesn't react very quickly (it's a cationic or positively charged surfactant). Likewise the sulfur in the sulfonate is not reduced so does not react with chlorine (as Evan noted, it's an anionic or negatively charged surfactant). These surfactants will tend to form micelles in the water and form a single-molecule thick film at the surface. Mostly what happens is that circulation moves them to the filter where they generally adhere. The filter is where most water-insoluble material ends up. When I clean my filters each year, it's mostly full of the parts of suntan lotion that are not water soluble and that chlorine does not break down.

As Evan noted, an enzyme product can be used to break these substances down, especially if you have trouble filtering them out. Usually though, most people are able to just let circulation do its job. If some remains on the surface because your flow rate isn't high enough to pull it down into the skimmer, then you can use a scum ball to help remove it.

[PoolDoc]

Richard, Evan;

Do you know of particular enzyme products that have delivered fairly consistent positive results. Those products are intrinsically 'mystery soup', so the only way to pick one, is to try to find one with a track record. I can't do so, because I've never used them.

[waterbear]

Only one I have ever used is Natural Chemistry's products but from what I have been able to gather about them they are all very similar if not the same.

[chem geek]

The ones I've heard about others using are the same as Evan mentions from Natural Chemistry:

Pool Perfect™ (http://naturalchemistry.com/pool_spa/products/pool_perfect.html)
Pool First Aid™ (http://naturalchemistry.com/pool_spa/products/pool_first_aid.html) - seems to be the same as above, but stronger in strength

I had orenda™ technologies CV700 (http://orendatech.com/products/cv-700/) put in my pool once when the owner was out in my area and we did some experiments. There wasn't much to clear up, but it did seem to take care of some leftover suntan lotion film on the surface rather quickly, but the product also has a small amount of phosphate remover (lanthanum chloride) as well so isn't an enzyme-only product.

[waterbear]

The ones I've heard about others using are the same as Evan mentions from Natural Chemistry:

Pool Perfect™ (http://naturalchemistry.com/pool_spa/products/pool_perfect.html)
Pool First Aid™ (http://naturalchemistry.com/pool_spa/products/pool_first_aid.html) - seems to be the same as above, but stronger in strength

I had orenda™ technologies CV700 (http://orendatech.com/products/cv-700/) put in my pool once when the owner was out in my area and we did some experiments.

Richard, THAT is a name from the past. I haven't spoken with him in several years now (since he reformed his company to produce enzymes and phospahte removers)!

That would make his product similar to Natural Chemistry's Pool Perfect + PHOSfree (http://naturalchemistry.com/pool_spa/products/pool_perfect__phosfree.html)

[motomom]

Bleah. I'm glad to see that I am not the only crazy person who has ended up with this stuff in the pool. That's what I get for allowing hubby to take care of the pool for me this week.

[topless]

I bought Clorox splash proof at SAMs club. It has put a thin layer of foam on top. Due to mechanical problems, I just got the pool uncovered this morning and had 15 bottles of the stuff ready to go in, so it's in. Pool had a lot of green and mustard algae in, but not as much as I thought it would, opening it up so late.
Since the chorine already dropped to less than 5ppm, I just put in some plain old bleach and added cya. It's starting to turn blue, but I will need more bleach by tomorrow.
Stay away from the "splash proof" Clorox, it will foam on you.

[PoolDoc]

Yep. That's why we say "PLAIN 6% household bleach".

Actually, the detergency may have helped in your case, since it probably improved dispersion of the biofilm (mustard algae).

[Watermom]

Detergency? Is that even a word? :confused::confused::p:p

[waterbear]

Detergency? Is that even a word? :confused::confused::p:p

Yeppers!:cool::cool::cool:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/detergency
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detergency
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/detergency

[topless]

When I bought it, I didn't read the new thicker part on the label. I thought they had redesigned the bottle. Today I will be skimming foam off the top of the water, it's not going away.

[Watermom]

I guess I never heard it before and didn't bother to look it up. I thought maybe Ben was just making up words again!

[waterbear]

When I bought it, I didn't read the new thicker part on the label. I thought they had redesigned the bottle. Today I will be skimming foam off the top of the water, it's not going away.
Don't feel bad, you are not the first that has done this! It will eventually break down as you shock. An enzyme product might help .

[topless]

I am surprised that the water cleared out so fast. After the 15 bottles of Spash Proof, I put in 12 bottles of bleach, 1 gal of muratic acid (to bring down the ph so I could aerate, my TA is high) Since then in just 36 hours the pool is clear, fc is 10 and ph is 7.2. The detergency must have helped because the entire bottom of the pool had mustard algae on it, and it's gone about 98%. I have only added 4 more bottles of bleach today. I have spent a lot more time fighting mustard algae than this before. I have been scooping foam off, but I'll pick up some pool first aid tomorrow on the way home.

[Watermom]

What are the ingredients in pool first aid?

[BigDave]

Detergency: The critical need to discourage someone or something immediately. ;)

[Watermom]

That's pretty good, Dave! I often have 'detergency' when dealing with my two 14 month old pups! Now, why can't they be calm like their 8 year old 'sister?'

[topless]

After one week, I still have foam on top and need to shock the mustard algae again. It came back with a vengeance after letting the chlorine levels drop back to 6-8 ppm.

[aylad]

Yeah, it's said to be a real bear to deal with. You're going to have to make sure that it's gone, and that you have scrubbed every little niche where it could be hiding in order to completely get rid of it--light niches, ladder steps, etc...