Pool pump timers

[jeffyzf]

I have a pool with a Intermatic T10404R timer system, I just bought the house so I am not familiar with the equipment yet.

The previous owner had the main pump running from 10:00 am to 6:00 pm daily. Then there was a second dial I guess for the cleaner pump, running from like 10:00 am to 12:00 pm.

My question is I saw a video on Youtube that shows the most energy efficient way to run your pumps is 3, 1 hour blocks per day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujK5fcAdVY0

I have a salt cell that I would imagine needs to run more than 3 hours a day. However, maybe I could run it for 2 1 hour blocks and then like 1 2-3 hour block. Any thoughts on if this is a better way to run the system or if 3-4 hours a day is enough?

[PoolDoc]

I've posted a lengthy dissection of the video, below. If you would please read it, and then go to the video and give it a 'thumbs down' for misleading people!

But, let me answer your implicit "what should I do" question more briefly.

1. Do NOT switch to 3 hour operation, yet, and probably, not at all.
2. Go here: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/profile.php?do=editsignature
and edit your signature to contain all your pool info. (Examples below)
3. Look up your salt system MAKE and exact model -- then we'll be able to tell you about minimum on hours.
4. Tell us what, if any, chemicals and treatment you are using in your pool besides the SWCG.

Once we have that info, it will be possible to make some more intelligent pump run-time recommendations.


========================================
Pool signature example:

Let's say you have a 12,000 gallon concrete kidney pool with a StaRite System 3 cartridge filter, a Hayward Super II 1.5 HP pump, an Pentair Intellichlor SWCG, a Hayward pool heater, and a Nature II unit. Put this in your signature:

"12K concrete kidney; StaRite S7M120; Hayward 1.5HP Super II pump; Intellichlor IC20; Hayward H250DFN, and a Nature II unit"

Doing this will make it MUCH easier for us to give consistently good answers.

[PoolDoc]

Re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujK5fcAdVY0 (A sales promotion video from FlGreenTeam)

I watched that video . . . and it's not quite totally bogus, but it is an (1) ignorant and (2) somewhat dishonest attempt by this company:

Cathi Wilson
ComfortTemp, LLC aka flgreenteam.com
2213 Andrea Lane
Fort Myers, FL 33912
Tel: (239) 432.1500 -- Fax: (239) 482.7737
to promote their services.

What they claim is that by resetting the timer on your pump from the 8 hours shown, to 3 hours a day, you can save $310 per year.

Ok. Let's do the math.

Many south Florida pools are small ingrounds with no deep end, and maybe 12,000 gallons. Putting a 1 HP pump on these is pretty typical. Let's look at figures for a Hayward Super pump 1HP uprate -- a typical sort of installation with a not very efficient pump.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bC36k6Z8kpM/T4sO83vXzOI/AAAAAAAACVc/pN5FmmkQBv0/s640/Hayward%2520Super%2520Pump%2520electrical.jpg
(from http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/Manual113.pdf )

You can see that the 1HP pump draws 0.75 KW, so each hour of operation will consume 0.75KWH.

OK, next let's see what power costs in Fort Myers, served by Florida Power & Light:
http://www.fpl.com/rates/pdf/Residential.pdf
FPL has not made their rate sheet easy to decipher, but has mixed up different surcharges, so you can't add a single column or row to get YOUR charges. But it appears that most pool owners will be paying 6.184 + 4.343 + 0.153 cents, or $0.107/kwh . (Somebody check this, please*. This page suggests my errors may not be too bad: http://www.fpl.com/rates/pdf/lowbill.pdf)

So, lets go back to summer time hours. Fort Myers is near Miami, so pools there -- unlike most of the rest of the country AND most of Florida -- run 365 days per year. In that unique case, we're looking at 2920 hours (8 x 365) vs 1095 (3 x 365), saving 1825 hours.

Now, we can finally calculate the savings: 1825 hours x 0.75 kilowatts-hours/hour x $0.107 $/kwh, or
$146.46

So, even in the best possible case -- Miami's 365 day pool season -- savings are less than half what they claim!

But, what about Orlando, with a 6 month pool season, and say, 185 days of 8 hours per day, and 180 days of 1 hour per day? Now, their 3-hour per day plan saves only 925 hours, which even at the higher electrical rates of $0.15/hr. We then have 925 x 0.75 x 0.15 = $104 in savings.

But, wait, didn't they say that the "Florida Atlantic University study" showed these high saving? Hm-m-mh. Google to the rescue. Here's a version of the 3 page 'study' they refer to:
http://www.floridaenergy.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/swimming-pools.pdf
and a "simplified version" of the actual 1984 study itself:
http://consensus.fsu.edu/FBC/Pool-Efficiency/FAU-FPL-NSPI_1984_study-efficiency_of_circulation_systems.pdf

Long story short, the study claims several things:
1. Pumps don't need to run as many hours as they often are, IF you do everything else right.
2. Bigger filters and smaller pumps are to be preferred over smaller filters and big pumps. (I think I might have said something like that in 1996 on PoolSolutions -- yep, there it is: "The Bigger Pool Pump Scam (http://www.poolsolutions.com/tips/the-bigger-pool-pump-scam.html)". (The study preceded me, but I hadn't seen it -- Google didn't yet exist. Alta Vista did, but most studies weren't yet on the Net.)
3. Two speed pumps are a good idea.
4. 3.35 hours per day is enough for most well-maintained pools.

OK. So the study did say 3 hours, or thereabouts.

So can you do that?

Well, we noted that lots of folks, in areas with small amounts of in-pool debris (in other words, not areas like Chattanooga, where summer thunderstorms fill pools up with gunk) AND DE filters can run 4 hours per day. But, this doesn't work well with sand filters. It doesn't work well with SWCG's that have been sized to need 8 hours per day of operation. And more.

The problem with the video is not only that the savings aren't as great as what is claimed, but that 3 hours per day will get MOST pool owners in trouble. Not too surprisingly, the poster has disabled comments. But you can still vote up or down. So please visit the video, and give it the thumbs down it deserves!

Here it is again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujK5fcAdVY0

* But, don't forget, the monthly service fee is NOT part of what you save when you cut hours. So, you can't simply divide monthly $'s by monthly KWH, to determine savings. Savings will be at the OVER 1,000 KWH rate, but will not 'save' any of the the service fee or other flat fees.