Opening swampy pool, high PH

[River Gronkowitz]

Just bought a house and according to the previous owner, this would be the first time in over two years the pool will be cleaned. It's an 18 x 36ft inground pool with a vinyl liner and sand filter. I've tested the PH and it's 8.2 or possibly higher. If I understand correctly, the PH should be brought up to 7.5 before adding any chlorine to begin killing the algae, but in my situation, should I lower it before I begin?
Also, the alkalinity is 60 and everything else (chlorine, cya, etc.) is pretty much 0.
Thanks,
River

[PoolDoc]

First thing is to physically remove everything you can from the bottom. You need something like this, which looks to be a Chinese knock off (http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Strength-Pool-Leaf-Rake-Net/dp/B002WKJBI8/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=poolbooks) of a Nycon (pro-grade) leaf rake. (I'm looking for the Nycon website, but coming up dry -- I'll add it later)

Second, you need to get your pool circulating and filtering.

Third, you need to test it with a real test kit -- a locally bought OTO/phenol red kit is better than 'guess-strips'.

Once you've got all those things done, you can look at clean up. If the pH is above 8.2, it's not doing your liner much good. But, whatever damage is going to be done, probably has already occurred. However, once the pump is on, you probably should use muriatic acid (Home Depot, etc) to lower your pH to a reasonable value (<7.8). Check out this sticky, to learn how to use MA safely:http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?13111

That's probably enough for now -- let us know how things go, and what you find, and we can add next steps.

It's gonna take awhile -- getting in a hurry will not speed things up, and can lead to a huge and expen$ive mess.

[PoolDoc]

Here's the real deal, which is what I use locally: 19" Nycon leaf rake (http://www.amazon.com/Commercial-Leaf-Rake-Swimming-Pools/dp/B0002Q9DQE/http://www.amazon.com/Commercial-Leaf-Rake-Swimming-Pools/dp/B0002Q9DQE/)

But, I still can't find the actual name of the company, or their website. I thought it WAS "Nycon", but I haven't found it.

[ FOUND IT: http://www.nyconproducts.com ]

[River Gronkowitz]

Thanks for the help!
I picked up a leaf rake yesterday and got the junk off of the bottom, which was definitely a chore, lol.
Got the pump and filter up and running, and everything looks good there so far.

I also got a FAS-DPD kit and tested everything.

With the new kit, my readings are:
Chlorine - Free and total are both 0
PH - 7.8
TA - 70
Calcium Hardness - 20
CYA - 0

[Watermom]

What is your volume?

[River Gronkowitz]

I'm estimating about 26700

[Watermom]

You can either use bleach or dichlor. With such a large volume pool, it might be easier to use dichlor so you won't have to fool with so many empty bleach bottles. Dichlor will add chlorine and CYA at the same time. It will also drop your pH, so you'll need to watch it closely and add Borax. You do NOT want pH to drop below 7.0.

With no CYA, a shock level for your pool for now would be around 10ppm of chlorine. It will take approximately 4 lbs. of dichlor which you can add slowly to the skimmer while the pump is running. Make sure there is nothing else in your skimmer when you add it. When you buy dichlor, make sure it is only sodium dichloro-isocyanurate and not a mixture with other things such as copper, alum, etc. Sam's Club sells PoolBrand dichlor which doesn't have a bunch of other junk in it. Keep your pump running 24/7 and watch your filter pressure.

Test a couple times per day and each time add enough dichlor (or bleach) to get back to a chlorine level of around 10ppm. By the way, in your pool, each gallon (4 quarts) of plain unscented 6% household bleach will add about 2.2ppm of chlorine.
(For every 10ppm of chlorine that dichlor adds, it also adds 9ppm of CYA. So, you'll have to stop using it after awhile and swich to an unstabilized form of chlorine. But, for now, it would be a good choice for shocking since you have a large volume pool.)

[River Gronkowitz]

Thanks for the advice!

Got the dichlor yesterday evening and added 4 lbs. Brushed the sides and the bottom as much as I could, and within a few hours, the chlorine level was reading around 10. The water turned a sea green looking color.

Checked it this morning and the FC and CC were both around 3. The water is still the sea green color, but I can sorta see the bottom in the shallow end, enough to make out shadows of some of the trash I missed with the leaf rake. The top of the water was foamy, but I'm almost positive it's because the skimmer got full last night and air bubbles were coming out of the returns, and I haven't added anything besides the recommended amount of dichlor.

One other thing I noticed, the PH level stayed at 7.8, but the total alkalinity dropped to 50. Should I add anything to bring that back up now, or should I wait?

[PoolDoc]

The dichlor will drop the pH AFTER the free chlorine is used up. I wouldn't worry too much about the alkalinity. However, the pH will tend to drop too. Use borax, a box at a time, to keep the pH above 7.0. Add the borax SLOWLY to the skimmer, with the pump running. Here's what you're looking for:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3IVJ9kop4wQ/T3of8KKySpI/AAAAAAAAB6g/xy6236huYgU/s144/20_mule_team_borax.jpg

[aylad]

I would wait on the alk--get the pool cleared up first, and then the rest of your numbers can be adjusted later. If you try to adjust the alk now, it's just going to move again every time you add dichlor. It's not going to hurt the pool for the TA to stay where it is, so just worry about that later. :)

Janet

[River Gronkowitz]

So just to double check... for now, I should just continue to keep my chlorine level around 10 and keep a check on the PH, (which has been holding steady at 7.5 the past few days) until it gets cleared up. Anything else I should be doing for the time being?
Thanks again everyone!

[Watermom]

Run the pump 24/7 while you are working to clear the pool and watch the filter pressure. When you get an 8-10psi rise over clean filter pressure, it is time to backwash. Also, as you said, maintain the chlorine level and pH levels that you mentioned above. How does the water look? Once you get to the point where the water looks clear, and you can go from sundown one day to within two hours of sunrise the next morning without losing more than 1ppm of chlorine and your CC reading is no greater than 0.5, then I'd hold the chlorine high for one additional day for added insurance and then you can let your chlorine drift back down and maintain it per the Best Guess Chlorine Chart below. How much dichlor have you used thus far? At some point, you'll want to test your CYA again to see where you are with that. A CYA level of 40-50 is good for most pools. Since this a large volume pool, for convenience sake, I'd use the dichlor for maintenance doses of chlorine even after it is cleared up until your CYA is up. Then, you'll need to switch to either bleach or liquid pool store chlorine so your CYA won't get too high.

[River Gronkowitz]

Got the filter running 24/7. Have had to backwash once daily since I started, but checked it this afternoon and the pressure gauge isn't working at all. Gonna pick one up at the pool store tomorrow morning and get that squared away.

As far as the water goes, first thing in the morning, it's a light blue color, can even see the bottom in the shallow end enough to faintly see the design of the liner. Can't see the bottom at all in the deep end, but I am starting to see a lot farther down the sides than I was when I started. It's still fairly cloudy though. Also, as soon as I start brushing the bottom, it clouds up and even greens back up a little. At first when I would brush it, thick 'clouds' of really dark green would come up to the top, now the 'clouds' are a dusty white looking color. After a couple of hours, the stuff settles back down and looks like gritty, dark yellow/greenish sand on the steps. Dead algae or pollen maybe?

I've added somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 lbs of dichlor so far. I last tested the CYA a couple of days ago, but my test kit only measures levels of 30 and above, and I could still make out the black dot at the bottom a little at the 30 mark.
I think once I get everything cleared up and my CYA level where it should be, I think I'd like to use the bleach to maintain my levels.

[aylad]

Using bleach to maintain your chlorine level is what most of us do--it's easy, relatively cheap, and doesn't add anything to your pool that you don't want it to.

Keep your filter running--the chlorine killed the algae, but it's the filter that will remove the dead algae that's causing the cloudiness. Hang in there!!

Janet

[River Gronkowitz]

Thanks Janet!

Just an update on my numbers this morning:

FC 2
CC 2
pH 7.2
TA 50
CYA right between 30 and 40

I also went ahead and added 3lbs of dichlor to bring the FC back up after checking.

[aylad]

You might want to go ahead and stock up on some bleach to finish the job--you're soon going to be at the 40-50 ppm of CYA that we recommend, and at that poing you'll need to switch to something other than the dichlor. As Watermom posted earlier in this thread, each gallon of bleach should add about 2.2 ppm of chlorine to your pool, so keep that in mind when trying to figure out how much you'll need to buy....

Janet

[River Gronkowitz]

Just an update... Been running the pump and filter 24/7 for three weeks. Switched over to bleach after getting my CYA to 40 using the dichlor. My chlorine levels hold at 10 for a day or two before they start to drop off and I have to add a gallon or so of bleach.

The water is still really cloudy, to where I can can only see maybe a couple of feet down in the deep end. I see the bottom enough in the shallow end to make out large spots of dead algae that's settled to the bottom and I've been vacuuming this to waste as it accumulates.

Is it normal to take this long to filter out all of the dead algae, or could there possibly be a problem with the filter? Would I need to consider changing the sand in the filter or maybe adding DE to it?

[aylad]

Three weeks is a long time to get it cleared up, but remember that it took a long, long time for the pool to get in the shape it was in, so it's going to be a long process to clean it up. If you're still seeing improvement in water clarity, then the filter is at least working. Do you see anything blowing back through the returns? One thing you can do is add the handfull of DE into the skimmer and then watch to see if it's coming back through the return--if so, then the filter has a problem. If not,then it's trapping the particles and you just need to apply another dose of POPP--Pool owner patience and persistence! :) YOu might also open the filter up and just make sure that it has an adequate amount of sand in it. Your owner's manual will tell you how full it should be, but I think with sand the general rule is about 2/3 full.

Keep an eye on your pressure, and continue to backwash it when your pressure gets 8-10 psi over your "clean" pressure. I wouldn't backwash it any more often than that, because a dirty filter actually cleans better than a clean one.

[PoolDoc]

Is it normal to take this long to filter out all of the dead algae, or could there possibly be a problem with the filter? Would I need to consider changing the sand in the filter or maybe adding DE to it?

I'm going with, "there's a problem with the filter".

The two most common problems are (1) missing sand, blown out during backwash via oversize pool pump and (2) coarse non-filter sand, sold by pool stores trying increase their margin.

If you post your pump and filter make/model, we can probably tell if it's likely you've blown out sand when you've been backwashing. This is more common on AG pools, but it happens on IG pools as well.

But, either one of these problems will make clean up very slow. The DE test Janet described is also diagnostic: if you put DE in, and it blows back out, you DEFINITELY have filter problems.

[River Gronkowitz]

The filter is a Hayward S-200
The pump is a Hayward SP 1600-M and the motor model is UST 1102.

[PoolDoc]

Not quite enough info: the SP1600 is the general range for the Hayward SuperPump line up -- see which one you have on this page at Hayward. (http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-Ground-Pool-Pumps-Super-Pump-_10201_10551_13004_-1_14002__I.htm)

And, here the S200 series page (http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-Ground-Pool-Filters-S200-Series_10201_10551_13504_-1_17009_15516_I.htm).

[River Gronkowitz]

Okay, got it now- it's a Hayward SP2607X10