new pump needed

[bomberchamp]

I have a fiberglass inground pool. It's 20,000 gals and needs new motor. I would like to upgrade to something more efficient. I have 1 1/2 inch lines coming and going and the only intake I have is the skimmer with two discharge outlets in the shallow end. I have a 175 cartridge filter that does an ok job. My question is do I need a vs pump or will a 2 speed suffice? I run pump about 8 hrs a day in summer and 6 in winter. I currrently have a hayward 1 hp rs1000 pump and motor that locked up. Power is at .11 per kw.
Any advice would be appreciated

[PoolDoc]

OK:
=> 20,000 gallons
=> 1.5" pump return from skimmer;
=> (2) 1.5" pool returns from filter

Your maximum effective flow rate is set by your single skimmer return -- you do NOT want to exceed 6 fps (ft per second) flow rate if possible, because pumping rapidly becomes in efficient as you do so. (page 47 of the Charlotte Plastic Pipe tech manual (http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf)) This limits you to 35 - 40 GPM. That's a little low for a 20K pool -- 42 GPM is 8 hour turnover (= a volume equivalent to your pools volume goes through the filter in 8 hours, but that does NOT mean that 100% of your pool water is filtered in 8 hours!)

So, your looking for 35 GPM, but need better water quality than you'd get with a sand filter on 9 hour turn-over.

Assuming you have no other equipment, you could get excellent energy efficiency with a 2 speed 3/4 HP Whisperflo
model WFDS-3 for about $570 + shipping, OR a IntelliFlo Variable Speed . . . which is just a 3HP Whisperflo wet-end with a variable speed motor. Considering that you'd have to install a special timer for the Whisperflo, the Intelliflo might be a better idea.

I don't know what a "175 cartridge" filter is, so I can't comment on whether that's a suitable filter, or not.

However, if you wanted optimal water quality, something like a Hayward ProGrid 60 or even 72 would give you that:
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-254/Hayward-Pro-dsh-Grid-DE-Filter/Detail.bok

If you select a cartridge filter (other than the one you have now) remember to check on replacement cartridge cost BEFORE you buy the filters. Some modern cartridge filters, like the StaRite System3 have EXTREMELY expensive replacement cartridges, that are also very difficult to handle when wet and dirty.

[mas985]

The RS1000 has about the same flow rate as the Whisperflo 3/4 HP on the same plumbing so that would be a good match. However, if you want to save some money you could also just replace the RS1000 motor with a two speed motor.

[bomberchamp]

Thanks for the replies. I went back and calculated the pool capacity and I think it is actually 16,500. It is a rectangle 30 x 12. It is 8 feet deep and 4 in the shallow does this figure jive? The Whisperflo wfds 26 is 115 olds and the pump I have is 230 I believe. If this is the case I should be able to just use one leg on one of the breakers and hook the other up to common right?
Going back to the vs compared to the 2 speed I found out that with the power company rebate the out the door price for a vs would be around 920.00. I found the wfds 26 for around 570.00. Which way would you go if it was yours to do, and how long can I realisticly expect these pumps to last?

[PoolDoc]

+ Pool volume: 12' x 30' x 5.5' avg depth x 7.48 gal/cft = 14,800 gallon => round down to 14,500, since you will not run the pool at overflow!
+ Whisperflo wfds-26 is has a 230V motor; I don't know what "115 olds" is, but I'm guessing you are saying something about the voltage.


If this is the case I should be able to just use one leg on one of the breakers and hook the other up to common right?
I'm going to be blunt . . . because when you mix electricity with pools in the wrong way, you KILL people. Your question tells me you SHOULD NOT DO THE WIRING YOURSELF! Period. End of story. You can watch and learn, but get someone who knows what they are doing!

Not sure where you are getting your prices, but a Pentair Intelliflo (vfd drive & motor on a 3HP Whisperflo front end) can be had for ~890 + shipping:
www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-3401/IntelliFlo®-Variable-Speed-Ultra/Detail.bok

From the same company, a 2-speed Whisperflo can be had for $570 to $740, but keep in mind you'll have to have a special time clock (DPDT) with the Whisperflo, but not with the Intelliflo.
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-612/Pentair-Whisperflo-Pool-Pump/Detail.bok


It's quite common for pool pumps from the better companies (like Pentair) to last 10 years . . . BUT make an effort to get your new pumps 2 - 4" ABOVE ground level. It will last longer if you do.

[mas985]

The WFDS-26 is a 1.5 HP up rated pump and it would be too big for your pool. The pump I was suggesting was the WFDS-24 or WFDS-3 which are really the same pump. If you want a 230v pump, I would suggest the Superflo 1 HP up rated pump. It is a smaller pump than the Whisperflo but I don't think you need a big pump anyway.

At $0.11/kwh, it will take a long time to make up the difference in price. I estimate it will take about 160 months of one turnover/day in order for the Intelliflo to start being more cost effective than the Whisperflo so the Whisperflo will probably have a lower lifetime cost.

[bomberchamp]

Ok I ended up getting the intelliflo for 675.00 out the door with the power company rebate. I poured a concrete pad 4 inches above grade and set the equipment and it's all plumbed and wired.
This however wasn't the big project this year. Today I finished up the week long project of recoating my badly neglected pool with zeron epoxy paint. I realize this is probably a band aid for now but was my oly option due to funds. I am amazed at how blue the pool turned out. We went with the bikini blue color, cant wait to fill it and seethe end result.
This leads me to my next question. What do,you recommend I use for chemicals to get this pool up and running? I have a bucket of tablets and a bucket of fresh n clear shock from Leslie's. I want to get away from using their products and advice because I think it can bed one cheaper and easier than what we've been doing.
Any help with what I should use and amounts would help this noob immensely.

[Watermom]

Do you have a good test kit? If not, you'll need one. We recommend the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C (better buy) that you can get through the Amazon link in my signature below. In the meantime, pick up a cheap OTO/Phenol Red kit someplace (red and yellow drops). Post some readings when you get them. Tell us the ingredients on the tabs and the fresh n clear shock. Some chlorine products have some stuff mixed in with them that you don't want in your pool.

[PoolDoc]

While you're following Watermom's instructions, you'll be able to keep your pool in OK condition, if you pour about a gallon of plain 6% bleach into your pool every evening (not: morning!).

But, do get the OTO pretty quickly. If you do have stabilizer in the water, the chlorine will not dissipate in the sunlight every day, and it will get too high. Once you have the OTO, skip the bleach dose, if the OTO shows dark yellow in the evening.

[bomberchamp]

The chemicals I have are 3" jumbo tabs that are 99% trichloro-s- triazinetrione and 1% other.(available chlorine 90%). I have about 25 lbs of these.
The shock is 73% calcium hypochlorite and 27% other. ( minimum 70% available chlorine)
I also have about 20 lbs of soda ash.

The pool will be ready to fill Sunday morning after the epoxy paint has fully cured. It will be filled with the hose and fill valve which are plumbed into city water.

What's going to be my plan of attack here?

Thanks for any help
Darren

[Watermom]

Since this will be a fresh fill, there will be no CYA in the water. So, if you want, you can use the trichlor tabs for awhile and let the CYA build up to the level you want. (We usually recommend 40-50 for most people's pools.) Trichlor will cause your pH to fall so you'll have to monitor it closely while you are using the tabs.

Once the CYA is up, the you can switch to an unstabilized form of chlorine -- bleach, liquid chlorine, or cal-hypo. Does your cal-hypo list what the other ingredients are in it? Sometimes they have other things in there that you don't want to add to your water.

Are you going on vacation this summer? If so, you may want to use your tabs for awhile now but not to the point where your CYA is too high and that way you'll be able to use them for awhile when you are away on vacation. They are very convenient for times when you can't monitor your pool daily.

Order the good kit, and pick up the cheap OTO/Phenol Red kit for now. Test the pH of your fill water and report back. Also, tell us what you want to do with your pool. You have some choices.

[bomberchamp]

They don't list what the other ingredients are in the cal hypo. I have a Leslie's basic pool care dpd test kit, is this the one I need for now?
I am looking to change what I do to this pool because I believe I may be the one who ruined the finish on the gell coat of the pool by not properly maintaining it. I don't want that to happen again to the new surface, that is why I am looking for advice from someone who actually knows pools and works with them, not just someone who wants to sell me chemicals.

I think I read on this forum somewhere that on a fresh fill you should add bleach at about 1/3 full then 2/3 full and then more when completely full, is this correct for my type of pool? I will be around most of the time it is being filled so shouldn't be a big deal if I have to sit on it and make sure I get it right out of the box.

[PoolDoc]

If you've got trichlor, I'd buy a cheap floater and a couple of boxes of borax at Walmart.

1. Start filling but do not let the hose water strike the pool directly. Instead, put a *clean* plastic bucket in the pool, and let the hose go into the bucket. Put a trichlor tab in the bucket. Filling via a bucket this way reduces the chance of iron spotting, if there's some iron in the fill. Putting the trichlor tab in the bucket keeps a small amount of chlorine in the fill.

2. Once you have a 1 foot or so of water, put the floater in with some tabs in it and pour a box borax in the bucket. (Borax and trichlor are one of the very few combinations of pool chemicals that can touch each other!)

3. Start the pump as soon as possible, but again, avoid having jets of water aimed at the pool surface.

4. Keep the pump on 24/7 till the pool is filled and adjusted.

5. Order a K2006 -- the Leslie's kit is OK to start, but . . .

6. Except for staining, I'm not aware of water chemistry ruining gel coat. When you say yours was 'ruined', what exactly do you mean?

[bomberchamp]

There was spots on the pool where there was no gel coat at all and we were looking at bare fiberglass. I was told this was caused by not keeping the proper ph levels. It is an old pool and there was so much chalk on the surface we thought we had a white pool but after sanding it all down realized we indeed had a light blue pool. I just don't want anything like that to happen again and I'm a little nervouse about the epoxy paint holding up for at least a few years. I followed all the directions per the manufacturer and love the results, just want it to last.

[Watermom]

I just don't want anything like that to happen again and I'm a little nervouse about the epoxy paint holding up for at least a few years. I followed all the directions per the manufacturer and love the results, just want it to last.

I don't blame you. That is a LOT of work!