What pump and filter?

[jrh1010]

Hi guys, I am looking for some suggestions on pump and filter. I have a thread going in the above ground pool forum, but what I am looking for now are pump suggestions. I am thinking about just buying the pool (liner, frame, and skimmer) and purchasing the pump and filter separate due to the sizing issues normally found in pool packages (pump to big for filter and oversized for pool). I am kind of clueless, but not totally on pumps and filters. Can someone advise me on how to accomplish what I am looking to do. Is there a good setup (pump and filter) size appropriately in one package? I guess I will start there and see if I can narrow down to a choice. I am looking to purchase a 18'X33'x52" oval above ground pool. Thanks for any help and moderators, I hope this is appropriate having two separate threads going with somewhat the same information, all though not entirely the same : ) My kids are driving me crazy seeing as I have purchased a pool slide, but have no pool for them to slide into at the moment : )

[PoolDoc]

I'm going to see if Mark wants to work with you on this.

Meanwhile,
+ are there restrictions on water discharge in your area? (Forces a cartridge filter, usually.)
+ have you ruled any particular filter (DE, cartridge, sand) in, or out?

[jrh1010]

Thank you for the response Pooldoc. I have not ruled out any type of filter, but was thinking a sand filter from what I am reading. I have an intex and wasnt really fond of buying filters twice a month and the DE filters seem to be less efficient from what I have read, but to answer the question, I have not rules anything out. What is the forums thought on this? I will do some more reading on the filters, I just was leaning towards sand as that seems to be the norm and the easiest to deal with (without continually spending money on filters as I am sure that is the easiest). Cost is always a consideration though.

There are no restrictions on water discharge in our area. I live in the country for the most part.

[PoolDoc]

Hi JRH;

Your replies are moderated (checked) before they appear, so you only have to post them once, but then you have to wait till one of us checks it.

Gotta run, so I can't answer right now.

[mas985]

Why were you buying Intex filters twice a month? Most cartridge filters can simply be rinsed off and they should last you a number of years. Also, cartridge filters can be the most energy efficient filters to use for a pool so I would not discount them.

For AG pools, your best value may be a combo pack but unfortunately, to get a large filter, which you want, you have to go with a large pump, which you really don't want.

The two combos I would consider are the following:

Pentair Sand Combo (http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/products/aboveground-systems-sand-sand-dollar-filter-systems-148.htm)

Pentair Cartridge Combo (http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/products/aboveground-systems-cartridge-clean-clear-filter-system-26.htm)

You can get better combinations purchasing the pump and filter separately but it will cost a lot more money.

[AnnaK]

My pool is similar to yours; it holds 12,500 gal at its most efficient capacity. I have a 1 HP 2-speed pump and a 19" sand filter. My previous pump was a 1.5 HP 2 speed and more than I needed. It and the filter came with the pool. The pump is on a timer which turns it on at night and runs it for 6 hours, at low speed. It also runs for an hour or so after the dogs have been in the pool to skim dog hair. I have it on high speed only when I vacuum and for the backwash/rinse cycle.

I chose a sand filter rather than a DE or cartridge filter because, in talking with people at several pool stores before I bought anything, I concluded that the sand filter would be easier to maintain. Reading on the forums about cleaning cartridge filters and some of the issues people describe I'm glad I got sand. I didn't investigate DE filters in any detail and know nothing about them.

[mas985]

One of the most common reasons people complain about cartridge filters is because they have to clean them frequently and this is because the filter purchased for the pool was undersized. A properly sized cartridge filter should go at least 6 months between cleanings and in most cases should last a year. I would much prefer to clean my cartridge filter once a year, which takes less than hour, then to perform weekly backwashes of a sand filter or bimonthly backwashes for a DE filter plus recharging. Not only that, most DE filters require yearly cleaning of the grids away so it actually requires more maintenance than a properly sized cartridge filter.

Everyone has to make their own decisions. Just make sure you are not basing it off of people who made the wrong choice in filter size. But here are a few things to consider when choosing a filter:

Cartridge Filters: Most energy efficient and don't require backwashing. Best suited for areas with water restriction, high electrical rates and/or pools that use a SWG. But make sure it sized for at least 1 sq-ft for every 100 gallons of water.

Sand Filters: Easiest for algae clean up. Best suited for areas where the pool is closed for the winter and/or high algae potential.

DE Filters: Best filtration. Best suited for owners that love very clean water.

[jrh1010]

WOW guys. Thank you so much for all the help. This is exactly what I was looking for. Some people with real world experiences to talk to and figure out how to tackle my issue. Through your information, and some research, it really is between the sand and cartridge filters. We do have very high electric rates in my area and keeping my electric bill down would be great, but our water bill is tied to our electric bills, so a lot of the bill comes from water use as well ( I say this because the electric will be higher with using the sand filter and using the water to backwash the sand filter will show up on my electric bill again). My area does not make a distinction between septic water and yard water. All water used is taxes as though it is going to the septic system and increases the electric bill. Weird I know. Enough about that, just giving you guys an idea of where I am coming from. So some more questions just to understand:

- If I go with a cartridge filter (Pentair Clean and Clear) and I get the one with the 1/2 HP pump, can I put any size filter in there? Meaning I would need 120 sq. ft. filter for the pool size, but the website that list the specs on the filter say the 1/2 HP pump has an effective filtration of 50 sq. ft. Do I just put a 120 sq. ft. filter in the same housing? It appears as though that housing size is 18'". It looks like 33" is the size I would have to go with to get the 125 sq. ft. of filtration and it comes with a 1 1/2 hp pump. It also looks as though there is a 33" housing that has a 1 hp pump, but it is not 2 speed. They do make a 1 1/2 hp pump (2 speed) with a 33" housing. So many choices on these things.

- If I go with sand, which I still like the idea of also(seems to be more work weekly, but less detailed work like cleaning a cartridge) and I have always had a problem with Algae in my intex pool for whatever reason and my pool will be closed for the winters. ( I live in Eastern NC by the way) Not sure if that makes a difference or if someone could tell me if I should be having a problem with Algae in this part of the country (I would lean towards operator error honesly) This pump looks good (thanks for listing it above mas985), but they also have a 2 speed with all the same specs. Is 100 lbs of sand enough to filter a 12000 gallon pool.

PNSD0035DD1160 Product Pump
3/4 H.P.
1.4 Effective Filtration Area (Sq.Ft)
35 Flow1 Rate (GPM)
Turnover Capacity 8 Hour 16,800 10 Hour 21,000 25,200 12 Hour
100 Sand Required (Lbs)
16 Tank Diameteor (In.)
28-1/2 Tank Height (In.)

I am really looking for the right set up on this and money is less of an option as I want to really get this part right. A lot of information guys and again, thank you for all your help.

Jonathan

[mas985]

If I go with a cartridge filter (Pentair Clean and Clear) and I get the one with the 1/2 HP pump, can I put any size filter in there?
No, the housing is sized for a specific filter size.

The PNCC0150OF2260 is a 150 sq-ft filter with a 1 1/2 HP two speed pump. The pump is a little large but if you are up for the task, you can swap the impeller of that pump with the smaller version. Impeller kits are usually less than $50. However, having the low speed of the 1 1/2 HP will save quite a bit as is. If you find you need full speed for something it is nice to have. You can always decide down the line to swap the impeller.

As for opening and closing a pool with a cartridge, it can be done effectively but you just need to take a few more precautions. Closing the pool after the water gets below 45 degrees and opening after is rises above 45 degrees will help minimize the amount of algae that is needed to be cleaned out. In fact with my own pool during the winter, I don't close the pool and my SWG shuts off for a couple of months because the water temp gets below 50 degrees. However, I don't bother adding chlorine because the algae does not seem to grow at all at these water temps. But cleaning up a lot of algae from a pool with a cartridge filter is not a lot of fun either.


A sand filter requires fairly high flow rates for backwashing so you just need to make sure the pump can provide enough flow rate for the filter. In most cases, this should not be a problem and the combo units have pumps that are more than large enough for the task. For your size pool, I would normally suggest a minimum 2.3 sq-ft (250 lbs) filter to minimize the backwashing frequency and to minimize head loss. You could get away with a 100 lbs filter but it just won't be as energy efficient and you will need to backwash more often. Again, combo or not, I would go with a two speed pump so you can run on low speed most of the time and use high speed just for backwashing and vacuuming.

There is truely no "right" choice for your decision only trade offs. You have to decide what is going to work best for your own situation.

[aylad]

Keep in mind that if you stay on top of your chlorine additions during the summer, and avoid the algae outbreaks, you can go a long time between backwashings on a sand filter. I normally only have to backwash mine once during the summer as long as I don't allow an algae outbreak and use a skimmer sock to get a lot of the fine stuff that blows into the pool. (300# sand filter, 26K gallon pool)

You also can add a handfull of DE to a sand filter to get the same filtering quality as a DE filter, if you feel the need to.......but my sand filter makes my water sparkle without the DE.

[jrh1010]

Ok, it looks like I have my mind made up on a sand filter. Thanks for all of your help Mark. I am going to go with this one.

PNSD0060DO2260 1-1/2* HP Dual Speed
2.3 sq. ft. effective filtration area
250# sand filter

Any suggestions on where to buy? I saw one that was priced good, but almost too good. Is there someone that the forum suggest we use (poolforum.com partner)?

I feel confident about the filter type. I couldnt find specs on uprated or full or anything like that, so with your expertise is this an energy efficient and quality pump that would be powerful enough for backwashing and vacuuming and strong enough for turnover? If so, I am moving on to the pool.

[jrh1010]

Lastly, will I need anything else to go with this? If I purchase that pump/filter combo, and buy a pool that comes with the pool/liner/skimmer, I am ready to go correct? (of course I need blocks and sand) I just wanted to make sure there werent any missing pieces I was forgetting. I have the electricity worked out, will level the site meticulously, and think all the hoses i need come with the pump (it says a 6' hose kit). I am excited about moving on to the pool selection.

[mas985]

Yes, the pump is more than big enough for all your needs. Efficiency will be much better on low speed so try to run it as much as possible on low speed and only use high speed when absolutely necessary.

[gtbee]

I will be constructing the same as jrh1010 and have the same questions. Curious 1010 what you finally settled on

[PoolDoc]

Any suggestions on where to buy? I saw one that was priced good, but almost too good. Is there someone that the forum suggest we use (poolforum.com partner)?

No partner or recommended source.

I will note that I've personally used A1PoolParts.com several times, for items I needed for customers locally, and they were cheaper -- selling retail -- than I could buy 'wholesale' from SCP. It was easy to reach someone knowledgeable, and my purchases went well. Of course, that's a small sample, so I'm not 'recommending' them, as much as 'reporting' my own experience.

Or not. Just checked -- their supply of AG pool equipment (which I don't deal with, locally) is not great. They are in California, and California, like Florida, is a predominantly in-ground market.