Please Help!!!! Swamp pool

[michelle king]

I did not cover my pool this winter. It is full of leaves which I am scooping out now. My pool water is green and brown color. I actually have frogs and salamanders living in my pool as we speak. What is the best way to open my pool to get the water clearer faster? I have an in ground pool with a vinyl liner. My pool holds 40,000 gallons of water. I use a sand filter also.Please help!!!! Thanks

[Watermom]

Hi, Michelle, and welcome to the Pool Forum!

Scoop out as much debris (leaves, frogs, salamanders and anything else) as you can with a net. Order a good test kit now so you can get it quickly. You'll need it to help you clean this mess up! The one we recommend is the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C which is the same kit with larger quantities of reagents. You can order it through the Amazon.com link in my signature below.

In the meantime, pick up a cheap OTO kit somewhere. I don't know if stores like Walmart are stocking these yet this early in the spring. If not, you'll have to pick one up at a pool store. Actually, while you are at a pool store, it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and let them test your water but just don't let them talk you into buying anything at this point! They will try! Come back here and post your numbers and somebody here will help you go from there. (Make sure that CYA is one of the things they test for you.)

Is your equipment hooked up yet? If not, go ahead and hook it up and start running the pump and filter so the filter can help you clear it. You'll have to watch the pressure on your filter and when the filter pressure rises 8-10 psi over clean filter pressure, it is time to backwash your sand filter.

What did you use to chlorinate with in past years? Do you have any idea what your CYA (stabilizer) level was when you closed in the fall?

We'll help you get it cleared up!

[PoolDoc]

To add to what WaterMom said . . . a key ingredient to cleaning a swamp is P.O.P.: "Pool Owner Patience"!

There is no way to make cleaning a swamp quick and easy (other than hiring it done!), but lots of people make it SLOWER and HARDER and MORE EXPENSIVE by trying to purchase "Quick and Easy".

To a pool store, a pool owner who has a problem (like you) and who is in a hurry, looks like money on legs. They'll sell you stuff 'to make it easier' and then, when that doesn't make it quick and easy, they'll sell you something else, to make it quick and easy.

Get the kit; test the water; answer Watermom's questions . . . and we'll make it as quick as easy as possible.

If you can't stand to do that, get out your big wallet, and pull out $200 to $500 to hire it cleaned up professionally (prices vary by region, and by just how bad your mess is). That's easy.

Otherwise, take your time, and work methodically.

But do NOT go walking into pool store, wanting to buy "a bottle of Easy, please". They'll sell you something, but it will just end up being "Expensive", not
"Easy".

Also . . . do you have access to Sams Club? They have some pretty good deals on chemicals that may help. You probably won't want to tote the amount of bleach it's likely to take to clean up a 40,000 gallon swamp.

[michelle king]

Ok thanks. I am getting the test kit and I have to replace a part on my pump then I can cut it on. I will reply back with the test results and we can go from there. Thanks so much for your help!

[PoolDoc]

You're welcome.

[michelle king]

By watermom told me to get water test. Results r free chlorine - 0 ppm. I knew that's was gonna be like that cause o have not ran my pool since last year. pH - 7.6. Alkalinity -100 ppm. Calcium hardness 160 ppm. Cyanuric acid- 25 ppm. The multi- value I ordered should be in this week then I can cut the pool on. Now were do I go from here? Thanks!!!

I did also go to Sam' s Club and got chlorine tablets, chlorine granules, baking soda and shock packets.

[BigDave]

List the chemical ingredients of the chlorine tablets, chlorine granules, baking soda and shock packets for better advice.

[Watermom]

Report back with ingredients as Dave suggested, get the equipment hooked up and let us know when you are up and running and we'll help you get it clear.

[PoolDoc]

I can tell you what she's got -- if it's "PoolBrand". The granules are straight dichlor (50#), as are the shock packets. The tablets are 3" trichlor (40#, I think), and the baking soda . . . is baking soda ;)

Given that she's got a swamp, it's probably not too much. She will need a K2006, to be able to gauge what's going on.

[TheGoose]

As someone who has done this several times, why not just dump and refill?

[PoolDoc]

She has an in-ground vinyl pool -- dumping and refilling without professional help will almost certainly destroy the liner.

Draining an AG pool is usually not a big deal. Draining an IG *gunite* pool is not a big deal UNLESS the ground is very wet. Draining a vinyl pool is hard to do correctly, and requires a high suction / high volume air blower.

[TheGoose]

I didn't know that about vinyl pools. I have dumped and refilled my gunite pool several times.

[PoolDoc]

Yep. Can't do that with vinyl pools.

Can't do it with GUNITE pools in wet areas. They'll float like a boat!

[michelle king]

Ok PoolDoc is right. I do have poolbrand. I don't know what (50#) or (40#) mean but the active ingredient in the granules is : Sodium Dichloro 99% and the 3" chlorine tablets : Trichloro: 99%. I have ordered that K2006 test kit but have not received it yet. The shock has both sodium Dichloro -s-99% Triazinetrione hydrate: 99%. And baking soda is plain baking soda. Oh the available chlorine in the granules is 55.5%. The available chlorine in the 3"chlorine tablets is 90%.I have replaced the parts now I am ready to go!

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Also after reading other post last year I thought I had some something wrong and my liner got stained. I believe I have to much metal in my water how do I test and treat for this? Will that K2006 test kit but do that?

[PoolDoc]

OK. We'll work with the 25ppm CYA, and let you correct that once you have the K2006.

50# = 50lbs. The Sams' buckets are 50# of dichlor, and 40# of trichlor. The "shock" is EXACTLY the same thing as the dichlor bucket.

It's possible that it would be best, if you could return some of those chemicals -- if you use all of everything this year, your stabilizer will be high enough to be an issue. Or maybe not. It depends on how you want to run your pool.

If you haven't opened anything, open either the shock or the dichlor, and start adding 4 lbs -- 8 of the little cups -- of dichlor per day. The best way is to add it to the skimmer -- assuming NOTHING else is in there, except water! Your pH and alkalinity will start going down, as you use the dichlor. Don't worry about (or even test!) the calcium, alkalinity or CYA again, for awhile. But do test your pH, and don't let it go below 7.0. When it gets near 7.0, start adding borax along with your dichlor, one box at a time.

If you got a cheap OTO / phenol red kit, you can use it and only use the K2006 every 2nd or 3rd test.

Let me ask some questions, since the best way to proceed depends on your answers. Please send in answers to these questions:
+ What are your pool's dimensions (at least, length and width)?
+ What is the make and model of your filter and pump?
+ Do you have any sort of feed system -- mineral, trichlor, SWCG -- that plan to use?
+ When do you (or your family) want to start swimming? (ASAP, next week, in May, etc.)
+ Are your pump and filter running, and working normally?
+ You have stains, now? Where, and what color?
+ You indicate you think you have too much metal in your pool water -- are you adding metals to your pool ('minerals', algaecide, what?)


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Assuming 40K gal is correct (give us dimensions, if possible, so we can confirm -- a LOT of people are told the wrong size on their pools), your pool is 1/3 of a millions pounds of water . . . which means 1# of something that's 100% active will give you 3 ppm of that thing in your pool. For example, 1# of chlorine gas will add 3 ppm of chlorine to your pool; 1# of trichlor will add 2.7 ppm (3 x .9).

So with (((50 + 24) * 0.55) + (40 * 0.9)) * 3 = 230 ppm of chlorine in your pool (if you added it all at once)
And since both add stabilizer: ((74 * 0.5) + (40 * 0.55)) * 3 = 177 ppm CYA
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[michelle king]

@The Goose: cause my pool holds 40, 000 gallons of water and it will cost me around $700.00 to refill! I wish I could do it that way!

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Ok dim.of my pool is 16×30. Make and model Hayward S200. I have a chlorine feeder that I put my tablets in. I would like to start using my pool when ready. I have replaced everything needed on pump now working correctly. The stains are around the top part of my liner. It is a dark brown color. Last year I did add an algaecide. I also have the K2006 test kit. So were do I go from here?

[PoolDoc]

OK.

16 x 30 pool? Maybe, 16 x 32? That's a more common liner pool dimension. But, I'm sure somewhere, somebody has made a 16 x 30 liner. Regardless: a 16 x 32 rectangular liner pool with a deep end typically runs 20,000 gallons, not 40,000.

Hayward S200 sand filter? And a Hayward chlorinator? Inline, or off line? The inline models are a TERRIBLE flow restrictor.

Dark brown stains at the water line often involve liner deterioration, sometimes because people have used acidic pool cleaners! But sometimes they are just people goo (lotion, body oils, etc.) Try scrubbing a spot with a thick baking soda paste on a damp sponge. If that helps, then that's a safe-for-vinyl clean up method. If it doesn't help . . . you may be stuck.

Metal stains are not usually going to be at the water line.

Is your pump running yet? Have you begun dosing with dichlor, per my earlier instructions? Are there leaves and branches on the bottom of the pool? Sludge? Have you vacuumed the pool yet?

Anyhow, as soon as you get the K2006, test your pool water, and let us know what you've got.

[TheGoose]

Ben does that mean my "rainbow" brand (think it's now under pentair) is also a great restrictor? Never heard that before.

[PoolDoc]

No, it's much, much better. It's almost equivalent to an open 2" T, where the inline Hayward literally won't pass a quarter dollar coin!

[michelle king]

19 Apr 2012
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Yes i have been treating and running my pool for about 3 days now.I have gotten pretty much all the leaves out. No i have not vacuumed yet. I will test the water and send u the results. Yes my feeder is inline.

24 Apr 2012
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I have never used this kind of test kit before what do i need to do, what all am i testing for? I have always used the simple tset kit this thing has like 20 bottles in it! lol

[PoolDoc]

I have always used the simple tset kit this thing has like 20 bottles in it!

The most critical test readings, right now, are the ones for chlorine, both free and combined, and for pH, and for stabilizer. Those are the numbers we need in order to get an idea of where you are, and how to move forward.

The kit contains all of the following tests:

Free and combined chlorine levels (chlorine that's ready-to-work, and chlorine that's partially used up)
pH (how acidic -- like lemon; or basic -- like soda; your pool water is)
acid and base demand (how much acid or base it will take to change your pH to a different value)
alkalinity (how resistant to pH change your water is)
calcium (how much calcium is in your water)
stabilizer (how much cyanuric acid is in your water)


It's not necessary to understand all these, yet. We can do that bit for you, for now. Just get a large pool water sample, in a measuring cup, and a stainless mixing bowl, and sit down at your kitchen table with the test kit and instructions, and carefully work through the tests, one at a time. I know it seems kind of overwhelming -- but if you just go through the tests like a robot, carefully following the instructions, it will rapidly become routine and not-so-complicated after all.

Be careful about the CYA test, however. It is an IMPORTANT test, and there's only enough reagent to to it 6 or 7 times. It's really very simple: fill the little flip top bottle 1/2 with pool water, and the rest of the way with the CYA reagent. Mix, and wait at least a minute. Mix again, wait another minute. Take the test block and look down in the small side -- you'll see a black dot there. Begin adding the mix from the flip top bottle, checking to see if the cloudiness in the mix obscures the dot. Continue adding mix till you can no longer see the dot. Then read your CYA level from the outside of the kit. If the mix is clear, and does NOT obscure the dot, your CYA level = 0.

Good luck!

Ben

[Watermom]

Some of those tests will be used infrequently. I use the alk tests when I open the test while I am adjusting my alk level if needed, then maybe do them once a month. I don't use my acid and base demands tests at all as my pH is very stable. Also, since I have a vinyl pool and don't use any cal-hypo, I don't worry about the calcium hardness test. You'll get the hang of the tests!

This demo may be helpful to you.
http://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=11