Pool is gross but not ready to open it yet...

[mikemilr]

I have a salt-water chlorinating pool and it's a swamp. It's about 25,000 gallons, I think.
I'm very encouraged by the photos and results others have gotten with doing major chlorine shocks over a few days. I expect the same results when I'm ready to try that.

I'm in Raleigh, NC ...and realistically, I won't be ready to open the pool until March 1st at the earliest. My pool has no cover (yet..next offseason it will). And it's green with algae and gross, etc. I'm running the pump about 12 hours a day.

So, several questions:

Until I'm ready to start opening the pool, what should be happening with my pool? If I had money for a cover, it would be covered. So that's not an answer this year.
Run pump continuously? or just a few hours? or turn it off completely except when faced with freezing weather?
Chlorine shock?
Can I do the clean-up gradually by dumping in several gallons of chlorine bleach weekly or does that basically do nothing?

Should I go through all the prep work now and clean the pool up to pristine condition because it's easier to maintain than to let it get worse? Or is waiting until March not that big of a deal since it's already bad?

I'm assuming that I'll be spending an hour each weekend to rinse off the filter cartridges for now to get rid of collected algae.

Thanks for any and all help.

--Mike

[PoolDoc]

IMPORTANT: do NOT run your SWCG now, unless you are SURE it's OK to run it in cold weather. Most can't.

Run the pump to get good mixing (4 hours maybe?)
Make SURE your pH stays in range: 7.2 - 7.6
Remove any leaves and physical debris, and keep it out.
THEN, if you want to, you can clean up with chlorine.

In deciding how much to run your pump, here are a couple of things to keep in mind:
+ it's not winterized, so you MUST run it during freezing weather.
+ before doing any testing, you need to mix the water adequately.
+ if adding chemicals, you also need to mix.
+ chemical action is much slower in cold weather; chlorine still 'works', but algaecides may not.

If you want to do it 'my' way, I'd recommend doing the stuff above, AND ordering a Taylor K2006 (not K2005!). You can use the Amazon link in my signature. Once you've got the gook raked / skimmed / vacuumed out, you can test and treat.

But . . . if your stabilizer was high when you closed and is gone, or a lot lower now, you may have an ammonia situation. Bacteria can 'eat' stabilizer and 'poop' either ammonia or nitrogen gas. If the bacteria in your pool pooped ammonia . . . it will take HUGE amounts of chlorine to clean up. On the PLUS side, if you clean up with our instructions (high pH, borax to raise, bleach to chlorinate), you will form monochloramine at high levels. You wouldn't want to swim in it, but it's VERY effective at getting algae even back in the cracks and crannies.

However, before we can recommend starting that, you need valid test results . . . and test strips do NOT count, whether they are yours or the dealers.

[mikemilr]

So I really wasn't trained when I got my salt-water pool...so I really didn't "close" it ... so I have no idea if stabilizer was high or not.

Here's what I'm hearing:

- buy the K-2006 test kit (will do)
- get junk out of pool (will do)
- run pump 4 hours (daily? or just before testing?) but ALWAYS in freezing/near-freezing weather (controls already do that automatically)
- check out SWCG ...to see if it runs in cold weather. See below


Here's more info on my pool:
AqualCal PoolPilot Digital Salt Chlorine Generator Model: DIG-220
Looks like it takes care of turning off purifier when it gets too cold.
I haven't winterized but we don't get sustained sub-freezing temperatures usually.

I do plan on doing "your" system... I'll start buying cheap, plain chlorine bleach from Walmart soon.

Final question... should I worry about cleaning up the pool now or does it not hurt much to wait another month or so?
I know that I'll need to rinse of the filter cartridge frequently until I'm ready to clean in earnest.

Thanks for your help.

[PoolDoc]

Another month shouldn't matter; "or so" might.

Get the kit, and let's find out what you're dealing with. If you have no CYA and no ammonia (I can tell you how to test), then you can wait. If you have CYA, not so much; what hasn't gone wrong yet, could soon. If you have ammonia . . . better start now.

Otherwise, your family may go buy a hunting license for your hide, when the pool is not open and looking nice on the expected date = first really warm day in spring, usually. Trying to clean up an ammonia mess in a hurry is no fun: just check out some of the posts we'll get in May from that.

BTW, a lot of folks here tend to think BBB = bleach, but it's my method, so I feel free to disagree. Bleach is just ONE way to do pools; when I started PoolSolutions (which preceded the PoolForum) bleach was cheaper, relatively, than it is now. Bleach has benefits, but so do other materials. Dichlor, trichlor, cal hypo can all work well IF you understand what they do and how to use them.
(Not lithium hypo, and those AWFUL some form of chlorine + GOOP shock blends they sell today). I currently don't use bleach on my remaining local commercial customer -- it's not practical for me, since I no longer need truckloads of it -- but use a blend of SWCG's, dichlor and trichlor.

Bleach is STILL probably the cheapest chlorine material you can buy in small quantities, but it's not nearly as cheap as a 50# bucket of dichlor or 40# bucket of trichlor at Sams. Cal hypo is now hard to buy inexpensively, and is a tricky product to use well - but it works really, really well if you know how.

So, find out what you've got, and while we're waiting, check and see what's available to you locally (Sams, Walmart -- no blends!!! --, Lowes, etc.)

[mikemilr]

Ok, Ben...got the kit (Taylor K-2006) and took readings today... I'll try to give extra details...just in case I screwed something up.

Rained hard for a bit today...but pump was running after that for about 2-3 hours. I think it was running for 4 hours before I grabbed water in a cup about 1.5 feet under the surface...away from the jets.
[Granted, the pumps don't seem to be pushing as much water...but filter might need to be sprayed again]

Chlorine Test: Aborted...because
Did 25ml test...put 6 dippers of DPD Powder and STILL didn't turn pink. Thought I'd try the other tests first then

pH test:
44ml of water
Color appears to show pH above 8.0 but not by much.
3 drops of "acid demand" seems to put it around 7.8-8.0
4 drops total of "acid demand" seems to put it around 7.0

CYA test:
did the 7ml pool water, 7ml of cyanuric
then dropped in to small comparator tube. Filled to top and could still see black dot clearly. My guess is that CYA is near 0

Alkalinity Test:
Did 25ml test
6 drops changed color but not really to pink or red.
7th drop definitely changed it to red
so, 60-70 ppm total alkalinity

So, I didn't run chlorine test again since without CYA I'm guessing that chlorine is probably non-existent in the water. But I'll try again if you tell me too.

As a reminder...this is a salt-water pool. I'm trying to keep the junk out of the pool but can't see the bottom...

I still need to check Home Depot/Lowes/BJ's for dichlo or trichlo

Sounds like I could use one of those first to get CYA up...that's if I follow the different info I read on this site.

[Watermom]

Hi Mike and welcome to the Pool Forum. Since it appears that you have no chlorine and no CYA, dichlor might be a good option for you for awhile until your CYA level is where you want it. Then, you'll need to switch to an unstabilized form of chlorine like bleach or liquid pool store chlorine if it is cheap. (Even though trichlor is stabilized, it isn't a good choice for you right now because you can't shock with trichlor.)

Unless I missed it, I don't think you told us if it is a vinyl liner pool or gunite, or plaster or ????

Good decision to buy the K-2006. It will make things a lot easier for you!

[PoolDoc]

OK.

On the DPD chlorine test . . . if you don't get pink with 1 dropper full, you won't get pink at all: you have no free chlorine. The ONLY time you might need 2 droppers full would be if you had extremely high chlorine (>30 ppm) and it initially turned pink, but then bleached out.

HOWEVER, if you have zero with the powder alone, it's still possible you'll have a reading once you add KI (DPD reagent #3 -- potassium iodide) since adding the iodide will expose any chloramines present (or any non-chlorine shock, or some other stuff -- unlike the DPD #1, it's not a super-specific test.)

Otherwise, it sounds like you're gotten reasonable results. Go ahead and buy a gallon of muriatic acid, to lower the pH, and if you can get a 50# bucket of dichlor at Sams, they usually have a super deal on it, around $2/lb, which is less than wholesale. But, I don't think they have it in stock in this area, yet.

Alternatively, you can buy bleach which, at $2/gallon for 6% is about the same price comparing actual chlorine content. Once the dichlor comes in, you can switch to that. But go ahead and lower the pH a little now. Use only a pint of muriatic at a time. Do NOT measure it -- eyeballs are good enough. But DO read this page:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?13111-Using-Muriatic-Acid-to-Safely-Lower-Your-Pool-s-pH
so you do it safely. Muriatic acid is cheaper and better for your pool, but you do need learn to handle it safely.

[PoolDoc]

Watermom, you posted while I was writing! ;-)

[mikemilr]

Thanks for the great info.

Vinyl pool, inground pool. Roughly 25,000 gallons.

[mikemilr]

So here's an update on my pool.... cleaned out the debris in pool and replaced filters...that helped a lot.

Ran tests this morning and here's what I got:
SWG, 25K gallons

Chlorine:
FC: 5ppm
CC: .5 ppm
pH: around 7.0-7.1
CYA: 35ppm
TA: 40ppm

Guess I need to get CYA up higher for CWG pool.

Can't really find buckets of dichlor here... I can find tri-chlor and calcium hypo
I can find dichlor at $3/lbs in 5lb box

So, any advice?

[PoolDoc]

I'd rather use my Best Guess Chart, here;
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html
not just because it's mine rather than TFP's, but because I don't like the 'fake' precision implied by the TFP version.

Even with the K2006, you cannot reliable distinguish 70 ppm CYA from 100 ppm!

As far as getting your CYA up, don't do it till
(1) your water temp is 70 or more &
(2) you have fully cleaned up your pool.

The reason the SWCG makers want higher CYA levels is they their units are too small to maintain chlorine levels at lower CYA levels -- which is a bit sneaky. However, I do NOT recommend using your SWCG to clean up your pool -- do that with bleach or what have you. Use your SWCG *only* for day-to-day clear water operation.

Since you can access to trichlor inexpensively, get a couple of floaters, and use trichlor. That will raise your CYA, by the time you open!

You can put trichlor tabs in the skimmer, but if you do so, you MUST leave your pump on 24/7 -- otherwise, the chlorine solution in the skimmer will get too concentrated, and can damage a variety of things.

BTW, if you have a friend who has a Sams or Costco membership, you should be able to get BOTH trichlor and dichlor there very inexpensively in their "PoolBrand" brand. And, it's plain dichlor or trichlor, with none of the goop the other companies are adding these days!

Oh, and buy some borax -- several boxes -- and use it to raise your pH a bit. With both dichlor and trichlor, your pH is going to tend to drop. With your pool, you can dump a box -- not too fast! -- into the skimmer, with the pump running. This will not only raise your pH, but will (over time) build up a borate levels that is algistatic.