First time closer

[Labpool]

I've been reading closing threads. .......A couple of questions for closing the pool for the first time here in MI. It's a used 21' AG. The pool came with a black "plastic" winter cover (has a copper wire running around outside through grommets and a single pool pillow. My questions are after draining below skimmer and return lines, do I leave the skimmer attached to the pool? I'm worried about taking it off and on and wearing the gaskets out by removal every year. Looked into the aquadoor, though it seems unnecessary if I plan on draining below the return right? My plan was to remove the "eyeball" of the return and leave the hole unplugged for winter water drainage. Do I remove the gasket at the return as well? ......Not sure I trust the pool pillow to hold the cover up all year as it seems like a cheap blow up. So, I like the idea of covering until leaves stop falling and removing the cover. Does this make sense? Anything I'm missing?

[Watermom]

You do not need to remove the skimmer or the gaskets.

As far as covering until leaves fall off and then removing cover, you can do that. Or, just don't cover it at all. I don't cover mine anymore.

[Labpool]

Ok. thanks Watermom. I do have two huge black walnut trees that have nice little leaves that like to ride the wind into the pool. Everyday occurrence as we're starting to get cooler weather. Probably use the cover for sanity here shortly. Though the pool Rover vac works like a charm getting the ones that have sunk. Thanks, again. Andy

[Poconos]

Ice does damage when it forms with no space for expansion. If you're concerned about getting a solid chunk of ice from melting and refreezing, rain, etc then just pack the skimmer with pool noodle foam. Cut up a noodle and pack some chunks in the skimmer. Can even whittle a piece down with a sharp blade and shove it in the skimmer pipe after you disconnect the hose. Can do the same with the return eyeball fitting. Use a relatively fresh noodle, one that isn't starting to deteriorate, or the white closed cell packing foam...eccofoam. Same as the noodle stuff.
Al

[Sponge1971]

... Or, just don't cover it at all. I don't cover mine anymore.

Watermom...could you elaborate on 'not covering for the winter'?
(rationale, who, why, pros/cons, etc.)

This seems like a major contravention to how us lemmings are doing things (or planning on doing things...I'm a 1st timer)...but this forum sure seems to do well banging their own drum...and I kinda like the beat so far!

I see the point of using a 'winter' cover in the middle of a forest (kinda like Labpool's situation). However, I'm in the middle of a barren sardine subdivision. There's not a tree over three feet tall to be seen. I seem to remember an errant blade of grass in my skimmer last week...maybe. So, I'm now thinking I don't need a winter cover...I was just going to get one...because that's what's done by all the other pool owners I know. (I can imagine the ice would wreck my solar blanket.)
I do kinda suppose there's a slight chance a maple leaf could sail in...from about 1000yards away...but I'll net that sucker out right quick, anyway.

I'm not all read up on the whole 'closing' process, yet. I'm not actually planning to close until October, untill the temps get 10-ish. A fellow buddy of mine suggested the later to close and sooner to open = happier pool water. Kinda makes sense to me, since it means less warminsh/stagnant time for ickies to do their thing. I'll be bouncing ideas off the closing threads when the time comes...

Thanks,

[Watermom]

I do have trees in my yard near the pool -- in fact, one that hangs over part of the pool. So, I get a deluge of leaves. But, I just use my Polaris 65 to get them out. (I don't use that vac all that much during most of the swim season. It is good at getting leaves and twigs but not too good with dirt and dust. So, it gets used in the spring when all the 'helicopters' from the maple trees, etc., are falling in the pool and then in the fall when the leaves are falling, but the rest of the summer I use my "Wanda the Whale" vac or just vacuum manually.)

My winter cover is a big pain. I used to always use it to keep the leaves out of the pool, but decided it just wasn't worth the hassle. So, the leaves fall in the pool, the Polaris 65 gets them out, and then the pool is fine for the winter. I do get some dust/dirt on the bottom but that is easily removed in the spring within a couple hours with the vac. The water stays clear.

I just decided I didn't want to fool with it anymore, so quit using it several years ago. Al (Poconos) lives in northeast PA and he also does not cover his pool.

You are right --- the later you can close and the earlier you can get open and get the equipment up and running so you can chlorinate, the less chance of algae.

If you have any specific questions, let us know. (From what you wrote, I'd say you probably don't need a winter cover.)

[Sponge1971]

Ok. I get your point...and I understand winter covers can be a massive hassle. (the same guy who suggested late/early run times also laments about his winter cover...)

So here's my final question on this (I thought about this one too late to add it to my post...)

I'm supposing the foot, or so, of snow and ice that builds up just becomes spring opening re-fill inventory?

Do you have any provision for overflow prevention? (like pipe in a length of backwash hose into a return so any extra rain/melt water can pour out and get taken away) or do you just let the skimmer overflow?
-or-
Are you up and running before the spring rains become an overflow problem (and still running after the fall rains stop)?

[PoolDoc]

Sponge,

I've only closed pools in the Southeast, which is very different that your area.

But, I do know it's common in severe weather areas to drain AG pools by 2/3, to avoid the sort of problems you are anticipating.

[Watermom]

My winters are nothing like yours in Canada. We don't get too much snow. I might get a little ice on the pool but it doesn't stick around more than a few days before it melts. I drop the water below the skimmer and below the return and don't have to worry about it overflowing.

I just thought of another reason I quit using the cover. Leaves that fell on top of the cover that were then rained on caused green, nasty decomposed leaves to accumulate on the top of the cover. Sometimes I would have to use a sump pump to drain part of the water from the top of the cover. It was also hard to get the cover off without having that nasty green water spill into the pool.

[Sponge1971]

----------

Ben,

Yeah, I also considered just draining the equivalent expected 'winter water load'. But, since I plan to store all my lines in the shed anyway...I'll have a handy return hole I can plumb an overflow line onto, at least to keep overflow water away from the base of the pool. We don't get *that* much snow...maybe 2 or 3 feet..and snow melts into such a puny amount of water anyway.

----------

Watermom,

I remember hearing others complain about the goo on their covers, during removal. Another reason not to cover. Dang! :mad: and I already bought a sump pump for just that...ok, I really bought it to circulate the water in my pool (for many days) while I scrambled around getting parts together for the plumbing job...but I also justified it for the seasonal cover removal pump down...oh well...I guess I could clean it up and return it...:rolleyes:

----------

Poconos,

I bet your winters are worse than mine...Lake Ontario does a good job of protecting us from the worst of the worst.

What do you have to say about your winter arrangements? How much do you drain down? How's the bio-loading during this uncovered quasi-shutdown state? Do you just keep the snow/rain as free top up for opening?

I'm eager to hear your side of things, since we're likely pretty closely climate related...
----------


I <gasp> actually found my first leaf floating around today! :eek: my fingers trembled as I plucked it out and suspiciously looked around for the leaf tossing culprit. I 'suppose' it's possible the near tornado storm (thank you Ms. Irene :mad:) we had yester-yesterday 'may' have had something to do with this errant leaf...but I'll be on the watch none the less!
That puts the count at 1 leaf, 3 blades of grass, a few hairs and a half dozen bugs so far. Not bad for having been running maybe two weeks now...<giggle>

I think it's pretty safe to say a winter cover isn't *really* going to be necessary for me. I'm just going to try going with no cover anyway. I can't see any damage coming from not having a cover. I could always get a mesh cover made up, if I really wanted to. we'll see what happens... Meanwhile I'll make use of the snow & rain that collects in there, as part of my startup inventory...
Besides, with the little bit I've read on CYA 'decomposing' over the winter...perhaps the ammonia after-taste won't be so bad with the massive ventilation afforded by no cover. I've still got to read up all on that...

And also...no cover makes it easy to slam in a jug or two of 'panic bleach' during that: 'it's-not-quite-time-and-i'm-feeling-lazy-and-it's-cold-out-and-all-my-equipment-is-still-in-the-shed-but-this-huge-slime-monster-is-creeping-towards-my-pool' emergency in the spring. :rolleyes:

I can just imagine the horrors some people find under their winter covers, during a 'late' opening. If it's not a herd of dead, bloated critters...it's the Swamp Thing that has taken residence. I bet the pool stores 'love' opening season! (I can hear those tanker trucks beeping as the back up towards the chlorine tanks...)
Maybe it's no wonder winter covers are not transparent. The surprise is better that way. I'll be happy to be able to see what's in my pool at any given time. Maybe I'll even strap the skates on and we can have us a bonnafide hockey game!....(just kidding) :cool:

[Poconos]

Hi Eric,
Sorry I didn't get back sooner but it has been busy here the last couple days compliments of Irene. Right now I'm on generator and with all the outages around here I may be out for a while. I got it easy compared to most on the east coast.
I also don't cover. Used to with a Looplock but with the constant snow, melting, refreezing etc I would wind up with a cover frozen in a big block of ice with the springs stretched so I don't bother anymore. I keep the equipment going as long as possible and open as early as possible. Don't use polyquat or anything except a good shot of chlorine and raise the pH up with borax. By the time I winterize all the leaves are down. If I procrastinate in the spring I do go a little green but that's easy to remedy. I also don't drain below the skimmer bottom and have a pretty tricky setup with a couple small pumps on the shallow end floor so I can actually drain some with the block of ice present and do no damage. I plug the returns with non-protruding caps so nothing sticks out for the ice block to grab and damage and one of the small pumps melts the ice around the steps so I don;t crush them. Usually don't have to drain though. As for filling in the spring I have a small stream that works well....free water.
That's about all I do.
Any more questions just ask.
Al

[Sponge1971]

hmmmm...I bet I'd end up with the same block-o-ice cover, since we do alot of freeze/thaw here too.

"don't drain below the skimmer bottom" = your pool water level *is* below your returns, at least?

I don't have 'smooth' return plugs...I should get some of those....but, the return pokes out (kinda) anyway, so is it that much of a problem? I'm not going to be pumping water out (with a block of ice still in there) since it'll *all* be frozen solid anyway...that block won't be moving anywhere to be yanking on the returns. Enlighten me on this, if you think it's valuable...

I'm thinking I'll just drain below the returns...yank *all* my plumbing, roll it up, and put it in the shed. This means the skimmer bottom will be open to atmoshere and the returns will be holes in the side of the walls. I'll tube short backwash hose to the returns, so overflow can spill out, away from the pool. The pump will be drained and sleep in the shed. The De filter will be cleaned, drained, in/out fittings capped (and 'maybe' sleep in the shed...since I have to take it apart anyway to clean it...might as well ship the 3 pieces into the shed). the multi-port will be dained and sleep in the shed. During the 'never-never' times, before the 'real' solid freezing starts...I'll drop my submersible in there, sideways, just to spin the chlorinated water around. it'll take seconds to yank that pump out..once the real freezing begins...mid-late december.....reverse the process, once thawed enough to get the subersible back in....(I'm too chiken to let it freeze in there)...

gotta scram...time to go home

[waste]

Eric - Welcome to the Forum!

I like the cut of your jib!!! You Have a great sense of humor and understand our "Americanisms" (though you're an American too -- I had a room mate from Canada and he liked to point out that he was also an American [Canada, last time I checked, is in North America] ;) )

I think you've found what you ought do - thanks for joining us and - if it's feasible, join us over the winter to share your humor and hang out to talk about pool stuff 8)

[Sponge1971]

<giggle> thanks, Ted :o

The pool is new for me and I'm glad to have found a bunch of great people who are intelligently enthusiastic about their hobbies. It makes for good discussions. I look forward to posting, on the few threads I'm involved in. I just wish I could type faster!

[elsie]

My experience has been during winter that either I'm a slave to my cover or a slave to my pool water, and being surrounded by so many trees (pines, oak, etc.), I find I'd rather maintain a cover.

I use the Rule automatic pool cover pump ($140 and it lasts a number of seasons). If big rains are predicted I just flip a switch and it's ready to go when it senses water. I've a 300-ft. garden hose attached to it that winds down through the lower yard, under the privacy fence then runs along the 2nd driveway, well-hidden by leaves, and ends up at the curb. That way when the pump is evacuating copious amounts of rainwater, it doesn't drain onto my property (or ultimately my neighbor's).

During the very long leaf season I regularly (weekly, sometimes daily if I don't like looking at it) either rake, blow or use my long pool pole with an old pool brush to push/pull debris to the edge and up where I dispose of it. That way the pool cover pump also doesn't get clogged by debris (well, it still does but I just quickly clean the screen to it). Yes, this goes on for virtually 8-9 months, because in the spring there is just loads of junk coming down from budding trees as well. So...there's never standing water on the pool cover and it doesn't get nasty at all. In May it just takes a warm day or two after the last rain to completely dry before a friend and I employ the sailor technique to remove it (folding one large lap onto the next until it's out of the pool and then rolling it up for storage).

Also, I can monitor my CL during the entire time by pulling up a flap I made over the skimmer with some scissors (and a lighter to seal the edges of the cut cover edges of the flap) and if I need to add any CL I just put it in the skimmer and run the pump awhile.

Because I have continuous double-tubed water bags around the entire circumfrence of my 16x32 in ground, unbelievably when I open 9 months later, not only is the water as clear and pretty as it can be, but at most there might be a silver dollar's worth of grit in one corner of the deep end. The alternative to all this would be looking at my pool become very, very dirty -- beyond imagination, really, despite heroic attempts to keep it clean - in fact, it would be impossible in my environment to do so. No worries!

[Poconos]

With my inground pool the ice never forms right against the edges for some reason. Close but there is room for my return plugs and the skimmer faceplate. The plugs are homebrew from PVC pipe plugs cut off to be real short so they son't stick out.
Al

[Sponge1971]

Ah. I get it. I've got some of those pipe plugs too. But, I'm thinking of leaving the returns open to drain through, so I won't plug them.