Is a 33' round unstable?

[Jacob99]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I've been researching pools for the last 3 weeks or so. I'm a complete newbie. Never owned a pool before. I'm looking to purchase a pool to get it installed early next year.

My question, I've been to 7-8 local pool places, 3 of them tried to talk me out of a 33' pool (round), saying that once you get into a size that big, it's too much load on the pool walls and just saying that they felt it was unstable.

Is there any truth to this? I would think they would rather sell the bigger pool which they'll obviously make more money on, etc, but I found it strange that 3 different non-affiliated dealers said basically the same thing.

With that, I've started looking into a 28' Sharkline Escalade instead of the 33' I was originally going for. I basically made a round template of a 28' pool in my yard, and I feel that it will look small in my huge yard. A 33' would definitely be a better fit, but it also might be too much pool for a newbie.

I guess I'm here for your thoughts/suggestions.

[Poconos]

Welcome to the forum.
Maybe one of the construction guys has a feel for the statements you are hearing but it doesn't make much sense to me. At a depth of 4 feet you're at around 25000 gallons. The size of the pool shouldn't make any difference to a newbie. Just more water than a smaller pool and more of the same maintenance. Solar covers on round AG pools are generally a PITA to take off and put on so with a bigger pool it's more of a hassle. As for the load on the pool walls....the load is determined bu the depth of the water, not the volume. So, the pressure profile, top to bottom, of a small 4' deep pool is the same as a 33' pool. Now, I assume they use more verticle wall supports on the larger pool and that would compensate for the larger radius of curvature. I also think if there was going to be a stress issue manufacturers would not make the things and warrant them. From a construction standpoint I suppose it would be harder to level the larger area but certainly should not be a show stopper.
Hope this helps and hope others chime in too.
Al

[CarlD]

As an alternative, consider an 18x33' oval, or 20x40' oval. Unless you have insane amounts of people over, a 33' long oval may give you the size you need. Saying that, nobody we know of has ever said "Dang! I wish I had made the pool smaller!" But check out ovals. A 40' oval actually allows good lap swimming as well.

CarlD

[gwrace1]

I've owned a 33' round with 54 inch pool walls for the last 5-6 years. It's never been unstable. The only problem we've had occurred this year with the jhook liner coming out around the coping in a small area. We have a small aluminum deck and fencing that goes completely around the pool. Part of the deck actually rests on the top rail of the pool . See my signature for a link to pictures.

[Jacob99]

Well the pool in question is a Sharkline and the depth is 54". Gwrace.....that looks amazing. Love your setup. I'm still leaning towards a 33', but it's also a difference of about $1000 compared to the 28' (extra water, install, electrical, etc). Looks worth it though.

[Jacob99]

Not sure if I should open up a new thread for this but I don't want to be considered spamming so here goes. Can you tell me whether or not I'm getting a good deal?
Sharkline 33' 54" depth pool -$3699 (pool only)
Installation: $1300

Then there's the "package". I'm not sure what I need or don't need, or will still be missing:
25 gauge ultra or print liner beaded or overlap (Beaded looks nice, but I guess overlap is safer?)
Filter choices: Hayward 200 lb S210T Sand Filter/ Hayward EC50 Earth Filter/ Hayward X Stream Filter (Leaning towards the sand since I'm a newbie)
1.5 HP Hayward Motor & Pump (Good or overkill?)

Then the rest are standard package deal things: A frame ladder, twist lock plug, winter plate for skimmer, thru wall skimmer, directional flow return? Skimmer Vac attachment, heavy duty filter hoses, telescopic pole, vacuum hose, vacuum head, hand skimmer, thermometer, test kit, filter sand or filter powder, deluxe platform for filter & sanitizer, winter cover, air pillows, winter plugs.

Then chemicals: 4 bags of activator, 4 bags of 78% turbo shock, 10 lbs alkalinity up, tpp algacide, 4 lbs conditioner/stabilizer, prevail sanitizer cartridge, prevail automatic sanitize (chlorinator)

They're charging me $1200 for this package. Is there anything I won't need, or should ask to substitute to give me some negotiating power?

[BigDave]

Price - I can't say - If you're happy with it, then great!
Installation - does it include sand and block? How about electrical?
Liner - Up to you, I think the beaded / J-Hook look nicer - safer, I don't know - sorry.
Filter - 1.5 HP may be alot for a 21" sand filter - I too like sand. The advice I've seen here is larger filter, smaller pump. Too much pump can push crud right through a filter that's too small. The slower the water moves through the filter the cleaner it will be.
You will need: a ladder ( do you need code - compliant self closing, latching? );skimmer and return; vac with hose, pole, and skimmer plate; hand skimmer; filter media; winterizing gear.
Test Kit - Do yourself a big favor and buy the Taylor K2006 test kit (find links here on pool forum so forum gets a little cash to stay afloat).
Chemicals - you don't need most of this list and it may cause you trouble with water quality. Read all about BBB on this forum and on PoolSoultions for, what we all agree is, a great way to maintain your pool.
Cartridge Sanitizer - I don't know about prevail, but these "chlorine free" - "reduced chlorine" systems are unneccessary and could cause problems - refer to the BBB method - it works, you'll be happy, really.

Good luck and Have Fun!

[CarlD]

BD's right,

These extra tools to supposedly make your life simpler can make it much harder.
An in-line chlorinator CAN be used with the B-B-B system but the key to B-B-B is regular testing and that won't change. In-lines use Tri-Chlor stabilized tablets and these add stabilizer (Cyanuric Acid, aka, CYA) to your water at 60% of the rate they add chlorine. That's good when you don't have any CYA, but bad when you have enough, and worse when you have MORE than enough. They also add acid, lots of it, so you'll find you'll need to add Borax constantly to raise pH levels. Still, early in the season, an in-line can help bring your CYA level up while maintaining a constant flow of chlorine. In the spring, I usually use the tablets in a floater to achieve the same goal, and watch the pH.

Caveat: Do NOT drive yourself crazy using "Dual Acting" tablets, or ones that say "With Algaecide!". Chlorine IS an algaecide and they are adding copper, which you don't want.

Chlorine reducing systems like Nature2 cost more to use than they save in chlorine. Never trust pool chemicals that don't say what they contain but use cute labels and vague references. Bleach is still the best chlorine and algaecide.

(Note: Many pool stores sell Liquid Chlorine, frequently as "Liquid Shock". If it's 12.5% sodium Hypochlorite, it's nothing more than double-strength bleach--my preferred chlorine. If it's price per unit is less than double the unit price of bleach, it's a better deal than bleach because you use half as much. If it's more expensive than double the price of bleach, bleach is cheaper.)

Carl

[Jacob99]

Price - I can't say - If you're happy with it, then great! I find the price fair, and the pool to be of good quality.
.................
!

Thank you, and thank you for taking the time to respond.

[Jacob99]

BD's right,

These extra tools to supposedly make your life simpler can make it much harder.

Carl

Thanks Carl. Looks like you guys know how to save money. I'm already loving this forum!

[Jacob99]

Dis-regard post #9, I was trying to quote the whole thing not just the first line, maybe it's a limitation on here? Anyway, I'll copy/paste instead so here goes....

Installation - does it include sand and block? How about electrical?
Sand-yes, block-not sure, what is block for?

Liner - Up to you, I think the beaded / J-Hook look nicer - safer, I don't know - sorry.
I like beaded, but overlap seems much less likely to ever come off.

Filter - 1.5 HP may be alot for a 21" sand filter - I too like sand. The advice I've seen here is larger filter, smaller pump. Too much pump can push crud right through a filter that's too small. The slower the water moves through the filter the cleaner it will be.
So, should I request a 1 HP pump instead of a 1.5? Is a 21" filter enough, or should I request a bigger filter?

You will need: a ladder ( do you need code - compliant self closing, latching? )
Yes, latching.

Test Kit - Do yourself a big favor and buy the Taylor K2006 test kit (find links here on pool forum so forum gets a little cash to stay afloat).
Thanks, appreciate the recommendation.

Chemicals - you don't need most of this list and it may cause you trouble with water quality. Read all about BBB on this forum and on PoolSoultions for, what we all agree is, a great way to maintain your pool.
So, should I just tell them to keep all of those chemicals and buy my own?

Cartridge Sanitizer - I don't know about prevail, but these "chlorine free" - "reduced chlorine" systems are unneccessary and could cause problems - refer to the BBB method - it works, you'll be happy, really. -
I definitely will, but is this the same thing as a self chlorinator? Even though it's not listed, I remember the woman at the pool store showing me a self chlorinator that is part of the package. If these are one in the same, then what's the alternative? Those floaty pod chlorine things? Sorry I'm a total newbie. Trying to learn everything, but I'm on information overload right now. I haven't looked into the BBB method yet as I haven't gotten the pool yet, but I definitely will be looking into that method.

[CarlD]

Blocks go under each upright so they are not sitting directly on sand.

Properly installed liners shouldn't come off, beaded of overlap.

Is the pump an above ground up-rated or in-ground full-rated? If the former, 1 hp is probably OK. If the latter, 1hp and 250# sand filter should be right, or a 3/4 hp pump with your filter.

Self-latching gates and ladders are pretty much code in most places.

yup, the K-2006 is the one

Self chlorinators are not the same as reduced chlorine systems by any means.

Carl

[Jacob99]

So is a self chlorinator a good thing to have?

[Watermom]

You don't need a self-chlorinator. They use tablets that are a stabilized form of chlorine. If they are used too long, too much stabilizer (CYA) builds up in the pool and if you don't run higher than normal chlorine levels as a result, then you may have algae problems. (Take a look at the Best Guess chlorine chart in my signature below.) It is no big deal to just add a little chlorine each day.

On the other hand, if you travel, you can use the chlorinator while you are away to add some chlorine to the pool.

I don't have one and don't ever plan on having one. But, some people do use them.

[CarlD]

You can use a floater if you need to use tablets. That's what I do. No plumbing and they run $10 or less.

Carl

[BigDave]

From what little I could find on the Internet regarding prevail sanitizer: I was wrong to assume it was a mineral type - chlorine free - reduced chlorine system (I hate being worng). It is , apparently, a system that delivers some (unknown) type of solid form chlorine in an "easy to use" - "recycleable" plastic cartridge. I couldn't determine what type of solid form chlorine comes in the carts - but - all (almost all) solid form chlorine comes with some built-in usage limit. For di-chlor and tri-chlor, it's CYA and rising CYA requires rising FC levels for effective sanitization and algea supression. Calcium hypochlorite use is limited by rising calcium hardness levels that can cause scaling or cloudiness.

My general skepticism (and a casual understanding of the costs of packaging) leads me to surmize that whatever is in the carts costs more than the same chemical in a bucket. I would also guess that prevail is not widley distributed and that it's dealers enjoy a significant mark-up and a captive market.

Please - learn about the BBB method so you can determine for your self what you need and what you don't. You will certainly need some of what they're incluing in the package - you'll certainly need stabilizer (aka conditioner, Cyanuric Acid) but what the (_ _ Double Hockey sticks) is activator?